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New c2c trains

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bramling

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No 357s are knackered and shake all over the place, just as bad as each other.



Kings Lynn needs more of a commuter style seating arrangement as their rammed at peak times and the lack of seats really wont help. Tbh 379s dont really suit GA, if they were airport only then they would be perfect but since not, their rubbish at anything else.

379s would need some interior changes for virtually any other use as they are geared up for an airport service that doesn’t heavily carry commuters most of the time.

As for 357s, if they are knackered then they must have been particularly badly maintained. They don’t go above 75 mph, many units stable outside the peaks, and they return to their depot comparatively often. Surely they can’t be *that* bad?
 
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class387

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379s would need some interior changes for virtually any other use as they are geared up for an airport service that doesn’t heavily carry commuters most of the time.

As for 357s, if they are knackered then they must have been particularly badly maintained. They don’t go above 75 mph, many units stable outside the peaks, and they return to their depot comparatively often. Surely they can’t be *that* bad?
I've used 357s quite a lot over the years including recently - never had any problems with them.
 

47802

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I've used 357s quite a lot over the years including recently - never had any problems with them.

Well quite the last time I used them which isn't that long ago they seemed perfectly fine to me, perhaps one of the diagrams should be substituted with some Merseyrail Railbuses for a week and see how moaning C2C users like that!
 

samuelmorris

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Amusing timing as this comes from traveling on one for the first time in a few weeks. They seem susceptible to pick up a resonance where they wobble from side to side quite rapidly on occasions, you don't feel it much but you certainly hear it, I wonder if that's one of the things people complain about. Once on a smoother bit of track, though, it disappears entirely. Fundamentally though I still think they are a lot more pleasant to travel in than MK3 EMUs even as a standing passenger which I am now. Back in the days c2c ran the Laindon terminator services more regularly I used to feel quite comfortable during my 25 minute seated journey back to Upminster. Being in the middle of a 3+2 is no more fun than it usually is but otherwise I think people complaining about the state of the units are expecting rather a lot, especially as they're often the same people complaining about the specification inadequacies of newly introduced stock, e.g. 387s, 700s and so on.
 

wls1

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They dont have much time to maintain them, they use something like 73 of the 74 or something like that at peak times which changed drastically after the december 15th timetable.

Well quite the last time I used them which isn't that long ago they seemed perfectly fine to me, perhaps one of the diagrams should be substituted with some Merseyrail Railbuses for a week and see how moaning C2C users like that!

I travel on them every day and notice the bad ones and a few are fine.
 

87015

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They dont have much time to maintain them, they use something like 73 of the 74 or something like that at peak times which changed drastically after the december 15th timetable.
Trying for 72/72 at the moment (with shortforms) after mashing two at East Ham last week. Add 6/6 for the 387s and its got to be 100% use on a scale unheard of, even allowing for many diagrams being peak only?
 

SpacePhoenix

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Trying for 72/72 at the moment (with shortforms) after mashing two at East Ham last week. Add 6/6 for the 387s and its got to be 100% use on a scale unheard of, even allowing for many diagrams being peak only?

How long will they be able to keep up a 100% utilization before they start to suffer breakdowns?
 

bonzawe

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How long will they be able to keep up a 100% utilization before they start to suffer breakdowns?
Has anyone got details of what happened at East Ham? How long are the units likely to be out of service?
 
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bramling

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Trying for 72/72 at the moment (with shortforms) after mashing two at East Ham last week. Add 6/6 for the 387s and its got to be 100% use on a scale unheard of, even allowing for many diagrams being peak only?

Not good. They still ought to be able to have a reasonable shot though - c2c still stable a *lot* of units off-peak and at weekends. Anyone have the exact figures? It’d make an interesting comparison with GN.
 

wls1

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A similar thing happened a few years ago when 2 units collided in east ham depot as one was a parked bit too far down in a siding and was struck by the front of one adjacent. One is apparently easily repairable but the other needs a new cab. Staff rumors going around that 357099 will return.

Currently the 0721 LOS-FST is 4v8 0737 LOS-FST 8v12 and 1625 FST-GRY, 1807 FST-PSE is 4v8 and 1746 FST-LOS is 8v12 (sorry for abbreviations) and some additional stops have been put on other services.

All is vaguely explained in this link
https://www.c2c-online.co.uk/about-us/latest-news/carriage-availability/
 

delticdave

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A similar thing happened a few years ago when 2 units collided in east ham depot as one was a parked bit too far down in a siding and was struck by the front of one adjacent. One is apparently easily repairable but the other needs a new cab. Staff rumors going around that 357099 will return.

Currently the 0721 LOS-FST is 4v8 0737 LOS-FST 8v12 and 1625 FST-GRY, 1807 FST-PSE is 4v8 and 1746 FST-LOS is 8v12 (sorry for abbreviations) and some additional stops have been put on other services.

All is vaguely explained in this link
https://www.c2c-online.co.uk/about-us/latest-news/carriage-availability/


I've just read that the last time 357099 was used, c2c hired-in 2 x 321's as cover.

Are there any spare units around elsewhere, such as 379's from GWR or 319's from Long Marston?

DC
 

bramling

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I've just read that the last time 357099 was used, c2c hired-in 2 x 321's as cover.

Are there any spare units around elsewhere, such as 379's from GWR or 319's from Long Marston?

DC

Only the 319s are officially spare.

GA has some slack in their 317 fleet, and 317s have worked on LTS before, but obviously staff training would be an issue.

Or, if LTS passengers are up for being tortured alive, there are 700s sitting around not doing much at the moment!
 

MatthewRead

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Only the 319s are officially spare.

GA has some slack in their 317 fleet, and 317s have worked on LTS before, but obviously staff training would be an issue.

Or, if LTS passengers are up for being tortured alive, there are 700s sitting around not doing much at the moment!
GWR use 387's not 379's.
 

wls1

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Yes was used when 357002 and another one had an incident in the depot and the 2 good DMOSs were used to form 1 temporary unit until the others could be fixed; hence the hiring of 2 Silverlink 321s.

Don't know how damaged they are or whether they need to hire in some more units to cover.
 

samuelmorris

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At the simplest level, the 379s are AC only 100mph units and the 387s are 110mph dual voltage. The interior of the 379 is also designed wth Stansted Express in mind, the 387 interior is less airport-oriented.
 

delticdave

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At the simplest level, the 379s are AC only 100mph units and the 387s are 110mph dual voltage. The interior of the 379 is also designed wth Stansted Express in mind, the 387 interior is less airport-oriented.
Thanks.

Q? Why do GWR need dual-system trains, (& why are the seats so uncomfortable), + I'm getting confused about the differences between the 375 & 377 fleets, some of which also seem to be dual-system?
 

samuelmorris

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They don't, but they were an extension to an order for trains that were, the decision was taken seemingly to leave the spec the same to cover all bases.

There are numerous subclasses of 375 and 377, some DC only, some dual voltage.
 

D365

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Keeping shoes fitted isn’t much hassle, on the Electrostars they are retracted when not in use.
 

bramling

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Sorry, apart from the 357, 376 & 378, all the Electrostars look the same to me.......

What are the differences?

There are loads of differences, even between the subclasses of the earliest trains. For the passenger the biggest difference is the ironing board seats making their debut on later ones. I think the 377/6 was the first.

On a more technical level, there are software differences.
 

D365

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On a more technical level, there are software differences.

I think it was the Class 379 that introduced updated hardware, which is carried over to the 377/6-7 and 387 fleets,
 

whhistle

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Which sort of surprises me with the software differences.

As someone said on another thread, it's a shame there isn't a set TMS for all Bombardier trains, so any unit can, with a little effort, talk to any other unit.
I understand there will be significant differences, but hey, a Windows 95 computer can still communicate with a Windows 10 PC... the 221 can't even see the 222!
 

D365

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Seeing as the 377/6 and /7 fleets coexist happily with the older 377s, there is a way. As usual though it’s time and money.
 

hwl

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Which sort of surprises me with the software differences.

As someone said on another thread, it's a shame there isn't a set TMS for all Bombardier trains, so any unit can, with a little effort, talk to any other unit.
I understand there will be significant differences, but hey, a Windows 95 computer can still communicate with a Windows 10 PC... the 221 can't even see the 222!

221s have an Alstom TMS for 390 compatibility not a Bombardier one, they also have a non standard Dellner coupling height too...
Some of the compatibility issues aren't software related but hardware for example analogue PA systems on older electrostar units and newer (better) digital ones on 379s, 377/6 & /7, 387s and Aventras.
The TOC also customise the TMS for their own areas e.g. ASDO and PIS screen information hence why Southern SE and FCC electrostars couldn't run in service with units from other TOCs
 

hwl

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Seeing as the 377/6 and /7 fleets coexist happily with the older 377s, there is a way. As usual though it’s time and money.
Mostly time and money as always!
 

rebmcr

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Keeping shoes fitted isn’t much hassle, on the Electrostars they are retracted when not in use.

Doesn't that have a maintenance burden to ensure the retraction gear is in working order? Presumably it's safety-critical for clearance?
 

D365

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Doesn't that have a maintenance burden to ensure the retraction gear is in working order? Presumably it's safety-critical for clearance?

As far as I am aware, if indeed they are still fitted, the 350/1 shoes are locked in place.
 
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