New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[bb21]

A Rounder means a Round trip to Shepperton. Crease.

It is a very weird way of referring to an out and back journey. Perhaps it is an old usage but certainly not heard of in this neck of the woods these days.

"Rounders" have a commonly accepted meaning on SWR, in referring to either the Kingston or Hounslow loop services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just make them change trains at Havant

Who should change at Havant?
The purpose of the two new separate extra services from Dec 2018 is to firstly provide more line capacity between Portsmouth and Haslemere, and secondly to provide an additional faster service between Portsmouth and Southampton - this latter is in response to requests in route strategies for some years. The suggestion at post #3982 does nothing for Portsmouth, however you dress it up.

Indeed the Portsmouth to Haslemere extra semi-fast capacity is probably more essential than ever with 12.450s being replaced by 10.442s with significantly less seats...

 

[theironroad]

Not sure what the contents of the letter are that has been sent to swr guards, but the rmt have issued a press release accusing swr of bullying and harassment of guards.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-on-south-western-railway-to-talk-about-guards/

 

[infobleep]

Who should change at Havant?
The purpose of the two new separate extra services from Dec 2018 is to firstly provide more line capacity between Portsmouth and Haslemere, and secondly to provide an additional faster service between Portsmouth and Southampton - this latter is in response to requests in route strategies for some years. The suggestion at post #3982 does nothing for Portsmouth, however you dress it up.

Indeed the Portsmouth to Haslemere extra semi-fast capacity is probably more essential than ever with 12.450s being replaced by 10.442s with significantly less seats...

I was being facetious. Hence the twisted symbol.

 

[infobleep]

Not sure what the contents of the letter are that has been sent to swr guards, but the rmt have issued a press release accusing swr of bullying and harassment of guards.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-on-south-western-railway-to-talk-about-guards/

Would the RAT be allowed to publish a specimen copy of a letter sent to a guard and/or driver with personal details removed?

 

[infobleep]

I was recently on a 455 service that might have had a 456 attached.

It was running late and it just so happened that it arrives into a station at precisely the same time a 450 did.it even stooped at the same time.

Almost immediately the doors on the 455 opened. As I got neat the doors of the 459, they opened.

Some people on about drives relaxing doors as it's faster than the guard. Well I don't see the people saying they should replace the 444s and 450s because the doors take so long to be released.

 

[45669]

One day last summer we went to the seaside. On the way my wife went to use the loo but found it locked out of use. We asked the guard who told us that it had run out of water and automatically locked itself. The other loo was blocked and unusable, despite having a full tank of water. (You should have seen it!)

So the guard unlocked the locked loo so that it could be used. Not only by my wife, but by several other passengers as well. However, as the loo user was unable to lock the loo from the inside, the guard had to 'stand guard' outside.

Now, tell me, what could my wife, and the other needy passengers, have done had it been DOO? Stop the train and ask the driver to unlock the loo?

 

[BestWestern]

It is absurd that suburban services from Waterloo have, for years, carried a guard in a rear or middle cab who does nothing except act as a doorman & who stops the train running when she/he fails to turn up.
In the 1960's these Waterloo guards looked after newspapers, pigeons, parcels & even milkchurns from Clandon & the trains had slam doors.
Now these "guards" just add pointlessly to the cost of running these trains & even add to the dwell time. I am told that on the new 707 trains some guards take 15 seconds at each station to release the doors. That is 8 mins wasted on a Shepperton rounder with 15 stops each way. Roll on DOO.

And the automatic door operation of similar new trains on Thameslink is a disaster and takes longer still. That's from somebody who drives them and has to deal with that disaster on a daily basis. And is of course it is far less safe.

By the way, they are Guards, not "guards". It's a proper job with a proper name, as much it irritates you. Shame innit.

 

[BestWestern]

Based on my current experience, I would disagree. The RMT harp on about how important the guard is for safety and customer service but most guards (in my view) can't be arsed unless they have to. I'm sure the public already believe that their trains don't have guards!

I don't see a guard walking through the train as being annoying. It's something that SWT/SWR do reasonably well, and significantly better than other TOCs. That sort of reassurance would be helpful for a lot of people that are irregular travellers.

An on train ticket check would be nice every now and then (but as most of the stations I use have ticket gates, they don't feel the need to). I travel on a 5 car train which isn't busy at my ungated station - I've had 1 ticket on-train check in the last dozen journeys and that was revenue staff.

Where are you travelling? If it's SWR/SWT suburban, the Guards don't conduct revenue duties.

Most Guards do their jobs well, you've either been unlucky (amazing how all the pro-DOO lot seem to always end up with the Guards who 'never leave the back cab', amazing coincidence), or you're generalising to support your argument. The vast majority of boys and girls in the job perform to a perfectly decent standard, and those who don't should be tackled by their management, who have all the tools required to do so.

 

[HowardGWR]

By the way, they are Guards, not "guards". It's a proper job with a proper name, as much it irritates you. Shame innit.

I think you are wrong there. Only the soldier regiments have that name's distinction. A railway guard should not be spelt with a capital letter. Sorry if that's OT.

 

[Fiyero]

I’m hesitant to weigh in on the DOO debate but the difference in visible guard activity has long interested me. I know on my regular short journeys it will be hit and miss if I see anyone but when it is over an hour into London sometimes I never see anyone and sometimes I see the Guard go up and down 3 or more times. I know they’ll do a lot that I don’t see but it has always seemed odd that sometimes I’ll never see them!

 

[74A]

And is of course it is far less safe.

No it isn't. There is no difference between DOO and nonDOO safety incidents.

If there was then RMT and ASLEF would be able to strike for this reason. The fact they don't shows even they accept there is no safety implications to DOO.

 

[pompeyfan]

No it isn't. There is no difference between DOO and nonDOO safety incidents.

If there was then RMT and ASLEF would be able to strike for this reason. The fact they don't shows even they accept there is no safety implications to DOO.

Brand new DOO stock is safer than DOO stock from the mid 00’s as the CCTV is improving, as is door interlocks, as Southern proved when they refused to let the BBC film older stock.

Older DOO stock is (in my opinion) more dangerous than guard dispatch, I’d imagine new stock 387/700/707/800s etc is probably pretty equal providing the driver isn’t distracted. (But the same could be said about guards I suppose)

 

[BestWestern]

No it isn't. There is no difference between DOO and nonDOO safety incidents.

If there was then RMT and ASLEF would be able to strike for this reason. The fact they don't shows even they accept there is no safety implications to DOO.

I disagree. No value in having the usual debate over it, but the unions most definitely do not accept that there are 'no safety implications' to DOO, quite the opposite.

 

[BestWestern]

I think you are wrong there. Only the soldier regiments have that name's distinction. A railway guard should not be spelt with a capital letter. Sorry if that's OT.

I was referencing the previous poster's use of inverted commas around the word guard, which he'd done in order to suggest that the staff he was talking about were somehow not 'proper' (and of course to be intentionally inflammatory, as all of his posts are designed to be).

As for the caps, it's a job title so it sits ok with me. So is the military use of it I presume. Others are entitled to feel differently!

 

[The Ham]

Would the RAT be allowed to publish a specimen copy of a letter sent to a guard and/or driver with personal details removed?

I assume that's an auto correct, not how you feel about that union...

 

[pompeyfan]

Complete change of subject, but I’ve noticed that both Southern and SW are running a reduced service into Portsmouth on their respective lines, but neither operator appears to have informed passenger that some trains are not running. Certainly I’ve seen no information to tell people there’ll be 2 services an hour south of Haslemere with a hybrid calling pattern. No XX:45 from Waterloo and no xx:24 from Fratton. Also no 2nd peak hour via Eastleigh it appears. Southern have much fewer cancellations.

 

[pete_m911]

See below

 

[pompeyfan]

See below

Was well aware of the works and had seen that tweet many times, but nowhere there does that inform passengers there will be a reduced service.

 

[infobleep]

Where are you travelling? If it's SWR/SWT suburban, the Guards don't conduct revenue duties.

Most Guards do their jobs well, you've either been unlucky (amazing how all the pro-DOO lot seem to always end up with the Guards who 'never leave the back cab', amazing coincidence), or you're generalising to support your argument. The vast majority of boys and girls in the job perform to a perfectly decent standard, and those who don't should be tackled by their management, who have all the tools required to do so.

I reckon one is less likely to see a guard on a busy commuter service than otherwise. Also lots of stops with short gaps makes a difference too. Doesn't mean the guard isn't doing much.

Brand new DOO stock is safer than DOO stock from the mid 00’s as the CCTV is improving, as is door interlocks, as Southern proved when they refused to let the BBC film older stock.

Older DOO stock is (in my opinion) more dangerous than guard dispatch, I’d imagine new stock 387/700/707/800s etc is probably pretty equal providing the driver isn’t distracted. (But the same could be said about guards I suppose)

I wasn't aware they didn't allow the BBC to film their older stock. When was this and did the BBC make a news story out of this. It would make a good BBC news story? Rail company tries to hide fact older stock not as safe. I'm sure they could write it better than that.

I assume that's an auto correct, not how you feel about that union...

Correct. An auto correct I didn't spot. If anything they would be mice and SWR a cat chasing mice to catch them. Once caught they either play with them or eat them or both!

 

[infobleep]

Was well aware of the works and had seen that tweet many times, but nowhere there does that inform passengers there will be a reduced service.

It tells them to plan their journey so I suspect that is what they want them to do.

 

[pompeyfan]

I wasn't aware they didn't allow the BBC to film their older stock. When was this and did the BBC make a news story out of this. It would make a good BBC news story? Rail company tries to hide fact older stock not as safe. I'm sure they could write it better than that.

When the first lot of Southern’s DOO dispute was being reported they done various features, interviews, and cab rides with experts. The filming in the cab was done on a 387 of the drivers screens, and the presenter made a point of saying GTR refused to let the BBC film onboard a 377/1-5.

It tells them to plan their journey so I suspect that is what they want them to do.

But it doesn’t say that people traveling on services along the Portsmouth direct or via Eastleigh would need to plan their journey as well due to a reduction in trains.

 

[theironroad]

Was well aware of the works and had seen that tweet many times, but nowhere there does that inform passengers there will be a reduced service.

Though I take your point about a lack of publicity regarding loss of 1 tph on the direct. Oversight or conspiracy lol?

 

[Kite159]

Looking at the above screenshot, I notice:

Saturday 17 and Sunday 18 February
Timetables for this weekend have not yet been updated in on-line journey planners

Now why doesn't that surprise me in the slightest, most likely the timetables will be updated some point on Friday afternoon...

...Why can most of the other franchises get timetable alternations into the various systems at reasonable notice when SWR can't?

 

[wibble]

Where are you travelling? If it's SWR/SWT suburban, the Guards don't conduct revenue duties.

Most Guards do their jobs well, you've either been unlucky (amazing how all the pro-DOO lot seem to always end up with the Guards who 'never leave the back cab', amazing coincidence), or you're generalising to support your argument. The vast majority of boys and girls in the job perform to a perfectly decent standard, and those who don't should be tackled by their management, who have all the tools required to do so.

London - Portsmouth, London - Bournemouth, London - Basingstoke, Portsmouth - Southampton, London - Rugby, London - Birmingham, London - Nottingham, London - Derby.

 

[theironroad]

Looking at the above screenshot, I notice:


Now why doesn't that surprise me in the slightest, most likely the timetables will be updated some point on Friday afternoon...

...Why can most of the other franchises get timetable alternations into the various systems at reasonable notice when SWR can't?

Well they didn't use to have such an issue with it, so not sure what the exact issue is really, presumably an IT issue rather than a planning issue as engineering work is programmed months or even longer in advance.

 

[Sprinter153]

London - Nottingham, London - Derby.

I can't remember the last time I didn't see an EMT Train Manager on an MML service, they are generally ruthless with ticket checks.

 

[swt_passenger]

The inability for SWR to get weekend engineering timetable changes through the 'industry planning systems' has been going on for months, and started in SWT's days last summer, well before the Waterloo blockade. It's raised its head in the forums a few times now, and I doubt if it has much if anything to do with the franchise change.

I wouldn't necessarily assume the TOC is at fault...

 

[infobleep]

When the first lot of Southern’s DOO dispute was being reported they done various features, interviews, and cab rides with experts. The filming in the cab was done on a 387 of the drivers screens, and the presenter made a point of saying GTR refused to let the BBC film onboard a 377/1-5.



But it doesn’t say that people traveling on services along the Portsmouth direct or via Eastleigh would need to plan their journey as well due to a reduction in trains.

Perhaps they didn't see that as necessary, even if it is.

With regards to the BBC not being allowed to film, I think that poi t has been forgotten about entirely. Did the BBC to back and question them as to why they were not allowed? I.e. do a journalistic investigation or did they just report what was said and move on without questioning why?

 

[infobleep]

Looking at the above screenshot, I notice:


Now why doesn't that surprise me in the slightest, most likely the timetables will be updated some point on Friday afternoon...

...Why can most of the other franchises get timetable alternations into the various systems at reasonable notice when SWR can't?

It's an industry wide problem due to planning procedures I believe but I don't know what the cause is. Maybe someone else does.