Next Prime Minister

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hopefully, she won't wreck communities, destroy livelihoods, and irreparably damage lives (causing tons of suicides) like the last one did...

If you really want to see total evil in a woman, read up upon the life history of Countess Elizabeth Bathory de Ecsed, then it will bring matters of comparison somewhat easier to comprehend.

 

[miami]

Considering you were not even on the planet when she was prime minister that is a pretty harsh assessment.

For a little balance perhaps you could see beyond that myopic diatribe and mention some of the positive aspects of her premiership.

Like most I was too young to remember her impact - Major was the first PM I really remember.

However she must have done something right to win reelection in '83 and '87, with 42.4% and 42.2% of the country voting for her party respectively. Major in '92 held on to almost all the votes, with 41.9% voting for him. In 1997 it fell apart though, and Blair had a landslide by getting that number up to 43.2%.

Blair in 2001 and 2005, let alone CallMeDave in 2010 and 2015, couldn't hope to get as much of the country behind them as Thatcher did.

 

[backontrack]

If you really want to see total evil in a woman, read up upon the life history of Countess Elizabeth Bathory de Ecsed, then it will bring matters of comparison somewhat easier to comprehend.

I don't believe we're talking about the 1590s, are we? :roll:

The Countess of which you speak was never responsible for a country, and she's entirely unrelated.

It's like comparing Jeremy Corbyn to Fred West. Sure, Corbyn may be bad at his job (something that you love to talk about), but Fred West was evil and horrible! It doesn't matter that he's completely unrelated, I can pretend that it is! Then you shouldn't have to say anything!

It's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't believe we're talking about the 1590s, are we? :roll:

It's a different kettle of fish.

Neither was I, young sir. Just giving you a good historical example of feminine evil that seemed to be stated a part of your posting, strictly as a comparison in terms of actual numbers who suffered under that woman.

Howsoever, if you wanted a 20th century vision of feminine evil, that being of the same century as the woman you cited, where a vast number of actual deaths by torture were a direct cause by the methodology employed, have a look at the worst cases of female guard atrocities that were committed by senior staff at the Nazi concentration camps and of the subsequent sentences passed upon those women at the subsequent war crimes tribunals.

 

[backontrack]

Howsoever, if you wanted a 20th century vision of feminine evil, that being of the same century as the woman you cited, where a vast number of actual deaths by torture were a direct cause by the methodology employed, have a look at the worst cases of female guard atrocities that were committed by senior staff at the Nazi concentration camps and of the subsequent sentences passed upon those women at the subsequent war crimes tribunals.

So the suicides caused by Thatcher were irrelevant because others did worse? Is that what you're saying?

 

[ainsworth74]

Enough. If you two want to chew the cud over Thatcher do it on another thread or via PM. This thread is for discussing a future PM not one that's now dead an buried.

Any further posts on this particular subject on this thread will be deleted as off-topic.

 

[Busaholic]

Wouldn't it be possible to amend the Fixed Parliament Act if 51% of MPs back it?

Yes. This Fixed-Term Act is a total red herring, just as much as eliminating the deficit enshrined in law, to be jettisoned when politic. No political commentator or any of the MPs of all parties suggesting there might or will be a General Election before next summer are presenting that ridiculous act as an impediment!

 

[deltic]

If May becomes PM it will put pressure on Labour to elect a female leader. Rather embarrising if the reactionary party ends up with a second Female PM while the progressives have never managed anything than the standard white straight male, if we exclude the temp stand ins.

 

[Butts]

If May becomes PM it will put pressure on Labour to elect a female leader. Rather embarrising if the reactionary party ends up with a second Female PM while the progressives have never managed anything than the standard white straight male, if we exclude the temp stand ins.

Talk about plagiarism - see post 142

 

[me123]

Maybe female leadership is what we need? We've had nothing but men for about 25 years now, and it's been at best mediocre, at worst an absolute shambles. Maybe it's time for the women to show us how it's done.

We could (quite realistically) soon have PM May, leader of the opposition Eagle, Scottish FM Surgeon, Leaders of the Scottish opposition parties Davidson and Dugdale, NI FM Foster, and Welsh leader of the opposition Wood.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Lets hope she really means it this time when she's not going to take us out of the ECHR and join Belarus and Khazakstan. Unlike a couple of years ago when she said she was.

I don't think believe she's changed her mind. More a case of, she realizes that there are enough Conservative MPs who support the ECHR that she stands no chance of being able to take us out of it.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Yes. This Fixed-Term Act is a total red herring, just as much as eliminating the deficit enshrined in law, to be jettisoned when politic. No political commentator or any of the MPs of all parties suggesting there might or will be a General Election before next summer are presenting that ridiculous act as an impediment!

Question is though if the act is repealed then who would gain the power to dissolve parliament, that power previously resided with the monarch and was exercised by the Prime Minister through the Royal Prerogative. That was abolished by the act but there are no guarantees that it would return if the act was repealed. No doubt the Lords would take a keen interest in such pressing constitutional issues.

 

[backontrack]

I don't think believe she's changed her mind. More a case of, she realizes that there are enough Conservative MPs who support the ECHR that she stands no chance of being able to take us out of it.

You remind me of this.

[YOUTUBE]ptfmAY6M6aA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[overthewater]

If the new leader back tracks and lies about leaving, what are the chance of some tory mps switching to UKIP, pushing the tories into minority government. Shortly afterwards A motion of no confidence is acted upon and new elections happen ?

 

[miami]

If the new leader back tracks and lies about leaving, what are the chance of some tory mps switching to UKIP, pushing the tories into minority government. Shortly afterwards A motion of no confidence is acted upon and new elections happen ?

You're assuming that the SNP, Lib Dems, and much of Labour, would back such a motion.

 

[overthewater]

You're assuming that the SNP, Lib Dems, and much of Labour, would back such a motion.

If there believe there could win seats of course there would. I get the feeling the SNP might lose some.

 

[northwichcat]

You're assuming that the SNP, Lib Dems, and much of Labour, would back such a motion.

If there believe there could win seats of course there would. I get the feeling the SNP might lose some.

Depends how they look at it. The SNP are on the opposition benches but believed Labour would have no option but to work with them if they became the biggest party in Westminster without getting a majority.

The Lib Dems potentially have a lot to gain if a number of the 37% who voted Conservative in 2015 have lost confidence in the party.

Trying to predict what will happen with Labour at the moment is like trying to predict when the world will end.

 

[Butts]

Interesting that three of the five Tory Party Leadership Candidates are Scottish by Birth. Fox and Crabb were raised on Council Estates.

May is the daughter of a Vicar who attended a Comprehensive School.

Gove had a Scholarship to Robert Gordons in Aberdeen.

The posh boy jibes so loved of the media and opposition politicians are about to disintegrate

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Interesting that three of the five Tory Party Leadership Candidates are Scottish by Birth. Fox and Crabb were raised on Council Estates.

May is the daughter of a Vicar who attended a Comprehensive School.

Gove had a Scholarship to Robert Gordons in Aberdeen.

The posh boy jibes so loved of the media and opposition politicians are about to disintegrate

What? Since when have the media allowed facts to get in the way of a good jibe?

 

[Butts]

What? Since when have the media allowed facts to get in the way of a good jibe?

Indeed, but if the Tory's have the sense to elect May and that clown Corbyn is still at the Labour helm the next Election is almost a shoe-in

 

[miami]

Indeed, but if the Tory's have the sense to elect May and that clown Corbyn is still at the Labour helm the next Election is almost a shoe-in

if it's 2020 yes. If it's October, then I see UKIP take half the leave votes (the only party guaranteed to fulfil the democratic mandate to take us out of the eu), and lib dems take half the remain votes (the only party guarenteed to fulfil the wishes of the people and keep us in the eu)

 

[northwichcat]

if it's 2020 yes. If it's October, then I see UKIP take half the leave votes (the only party guaranteed to fulfil the democratic mandate to take us out of the eu), and lib dems take half the remain votes (the only party guarenteed to fulfil the wishes of the people and keep us in the eu)

I can't see UKIP and the Lib Dems being the two biggest parties unless a number of Conservative MPs leave the party and Labour don't sort themselves out. I can, however, see an increase in popularity of either UKIP or the Lib Dems directly causing an increase in popularity of the other.

 

[ianhr]

I do not see a General Election later this year as being in the interests of the country. The result has exposed a deep fragmentation of our society.

However, I cannot see anyone who becomes PM being able to get a grip on any one of the multiple problems that they will be confronted with, and so an early election is probably inevitable. This will be highly divisive like the Referendum, and probably do even more damage to the political, social and economic fabric. UKIP would probably be the only beneficiary, so if you support them start agitating for it now.

The result is not mandatory and so they could say something like this...."we will note the concerns of all those who voted Leave but in the interests of national cohesion etc etc we will, for the time being, be treating the result as only advisory until some effective policies can be formulated..." This would be constitutionally legal but politically difficult....but for god's sake they are supposed to be politicians aren't they?

 

[miami]

The uncertainty that would bring would still damage the economy. Perhaps better to issue article 50 now and at least get on with what the future will be.

Uncertainty will be terrible - the only better option than article 50 now would be an overwhelming mandate to remain in europe, which would mean a general election with parties making it quite clear "for europe" or "against europe", and the "for europe" party(ies) getting a large portion of the vote (say 65%+)

And I don't see that happening.

 

[ianhr]

The uncertainty that would bring would still damage the economy. Perhaps better to issue article 50 now and at least get on with what the future will be.

Uncertainty will be terrible - the only better option than article 50 now would be an overwhelming mandate to remain in europe, which would mean a general election with parties making it quite clear "for europe" or "against europe", and the "for europe" party(ies) getting a large portion of the vote (say 65%+)

And I don't see that happening.

Yes, I agree with you about the uncertainty. We are in a bad place and it's difficult to see what the least worst option is, i.e. damage limitation.

We are where we are as a result of quite appalling political incompetence and misjudgement, made worse by the irresponsible behaviour of some of the key players.

Public trust in politicians was low before and now it will be even lower. They must know this, which is probably why they appear paralysed and have resorted to the only game they know well, internal Westminster party politicking. A commentator in the FT (hardly a scurrilous left wing rag) on Friday was comparing incompetence and political paralysis in the UK with that in Greece.

People rely on Local Government for most day to day services and support. This is still functioning, until the money runs out.

I hope everyone who has managed to keep a clear head about all this is writing to their MP because since we do not have a written constitution they are the only people with executive power. My letter was sent yesterday.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, I agree with you about the uncertainty. We are in a bad place and it's difficult to see what the least worst option is, i.e. damage limitation.

We are where we are as a result of quite appalling political incompetence and misjudgement, made worse by the irresponsible behaviour of some of the key players.

However bad the situation is, it would not have been the case had not the vast section of the "Leave" itinerant hordes of voters who decided in their utter lack of infinite wisdom to ignore the question asked on the ballot paper cast their personal vote as a protest against:-
Immigration
Cameron
Immigration
"Tories" in general
Immigration
etc etc etc

If you give the numbskulls (you must have all seen a wide cross-section of these being interviewed in the street by the television media after the referendum) the chance to indulge in fantasied axe-grinding by having this referendum and then do not complain if you suddenly find that the lunatics are running the asylum...

The two words "reap" and "sow" seem to be tending to sit side-by-side at present.

 

[CarlSilva]

Why don't they just cut to the chase and put Murdoch up for the job ? Not that I'd vote for him, but just sayin like.

 

[miami]

Why don't they just cut to the chase and put Murdoch up for the job ? Not that I'd vote for him, but just sayin like.

Because he'd rather have the PM on his paycheck -- ensure that the new PM thinks the support of Murdoch's papers ensured the victory, and they will do anything for you.

It's why he doesn't like the EU.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However bad the situation is, it would not have been the case had not the vast section of the "Leave" itinerant hordes of voters who decided in their utter lack of infinite wisdom to ignore the question asked on the ballot paper cast their personal vote as a protest against:-
Immigration
Cameron
Immigration
"Tories" in general
Immigration
etc etc etc

It is rare I agree with you.

The two words "reap" and "sow" seem to be tending to sit side-by-side at present.

Quite, and Cameron is the one who gave us this referendum - to try to keep his party together.

However the result has many people to blame - the young for not turning up, the old for looking backwards, the thick for not realising that their votes count, the media for falling for the "repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth", the media for false balance, Johnson for trying to further his career, the list goes on.

 

[ianhr]

Why don't they just cut to the chase and put Murdoch up for the job ? Not that I'd vote for him, but just sayin like.

I have said to many people that Murdoch cannot have many puppets left to hide behind now. Soon he will emerge from the curtain as uncontested dictator of Project UK.

When people complain to me about the unaccountable, undemocratic power of Brussels, without being able to give me any evidence of how Brussels has personally frustrated their lives, I usually counter by asking them ..."Is Rupert Murdoch elected?

I expect many people on here have heard the anecdote about the Murdoch visit when he was heard to say....."You know I LUV the UK because every time I come to London everyone licks my ass and does what I tell em to......but when I go to Brussels no one takes any notice of me!"

 

[Busaholic]

Because he'd rather have the PM on his paycheck -- ensure that the new PM thinks the support of Murdoch's papers ensured the victory, and they will do anything for you.

It's why he doesn't like the EU.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It is rare I agree with you.



Quite, and Cameron is the one who gave us this referendum - to try to keep his party together.

However the result has many people to blame - the young for not turning up, the old for looking backwards, the thick for not realising that their votes count, the media for falling for the "repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth", the media for false balance, Johnson for trying to further his career, the list goes on.

40% of the over 60s voted Remain, and given that a greater proportion of older people participated in the referendum that's a lot of older people, even if not a majority. The most constant presence in my local town for the weeks and days prior to the referendum was a guy who stood for hours at a time hoisting an 'IN' placard, and he's in his late 70s. My contempt is for those younger people quoted as saying 'I thought Remain would win so I didn't bother voting'. Pathetic!