Northern Class 170's

[The Lad]

Well, 83 and 84 metres long, it's also 65mph line speed to York apart from the PSRs. It is not clear if the level crossing is used other than as a (step free) foot crossing.

 

[Mordac]

Am I right in that all 16 170s have arrived from Scotrail? Sorry, been a bit out of the loop.

 

[Tractor37]

Am I right in that all 16 170s have arrived from Scotrail? Sorry, been a bit out of the loop.

Yes they have all now arrived.

 

[eastwestdivide]

There's been a pair of 5Zxx return paths (timed for 90mph 158, for Northern) M-F this week between Doncaster and Nottingham, all of which went unused.
e.g. 5Z12 at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N40645/2019/01/11/advanced
Anyone know what for? I wondered if they might be 170 familiarisation for the Nottingham services, but if so, why Doncaster?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Knaresborough is the problem. 80m platform with a tunnel at one end a LC at t'other. No chance of extending. Currently 155+150 and above is run under grandfather rights.

I tend to forget about Knaresborough, although these new units should have 'Selective Door Opening' fitted, so in theory it shouldn't be a problem. It might foul the crossing thou, although they're is a little bit of wiggle room between the crossing and the platform.

 

[superkev]

There's been a pair of 5Zxx return paths (timed for 90mph 158, for Northern) M-F this week between Doncaster and Nottingham, all of which went unused.
e.g. 5Z12 at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N40645/2019/01/11/advanced
Anyone know what for? I wondered if they might be 170 familiarisation for the Nottingham services, but if so, why Doncaster?

I believe Sheffield crews may be trained up on 170s.
K

 

[Islandexpress]

Leeds station just now. 2 x 270s (in Northern n livery) sat idle in platforms 1 and 2. Harrogate service leaves platform 3 formed of 2 x 142.

Don’t think I’ll ever ‘get it’!

 

[6Gman]

Leeds station just now. 2 x 270s (in Northern n livery) sat idle in platforms 1 and 2. Harrogate service leaves platform 3 formed of 2 x 142.

Don’t think I’ll ever ‘get it’!

Any number of reasons why this could be unavoidable.

 

[Ianigsy]

At that time in the evening there tend to be three or four sets destined for the Harrogate line on the blocks at Leeds- two 144s went out on the 1713 as far as I could see. There used to be a 2x142 service which was used to swap units around between Neville Hill and Heaton- the single unit which did a couple of return trips to Horsforth coupled to one arriving from Sheffield and the pair would form a Harrogate or Knaresborough service, run empty to York and then up the ECML.

 

[darloscott]

At that time in the evening there tend to be three or four sets destined for the Harrogate line on the blocks at Leeds- two 144s went out on the 1713 as far as I could see. There used to be a 2x142 service which was used to swap units around between Neville Hill and Heaton- the single unit which did a couple of return trips to Horsforth coupled to one arriving from Sheffield and the pair would form a Harrogate or Knaresborough service, run empty to York and then up the ECML.

Seems to be just a single 142 now that runs up and down on Sheffield-Leeds via Moorthorpe and then does a Horsforth shuttle before going to York then Heaton. Similarly only one comes south in return starting with York-Selby-Scunthorpe on a morning which then spends all day on Scunny-Donny

 

[anamyd]

Leeds station just now. 2 x 270s (in Northern n livery) sat idle in platforms 1 and 2. Harrogate service leaves platform 3 formed of 2 x 142.

Don’t think I’ll ever ‘get it’!

270s...? The new DEMU Turbostars...? Message without hard feelings

 

[eastwestdivide]

There's been a pair of 5Zxx return paths (timed for 90mph 158, for Northern) M-F this week between Doncaster and Nottingham, all of which went unused.
e.g. 5Z12 at http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N40645/2019/01/11/advanced
Anyone know what for? I wondered if they might be 170 familiarisation for the Nottingham services, but if so, why Doncaster?

Quoting myself, these Doncaster-Nottingham trips are running for real today, with a 170 from a reliable source.
e.g. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N54379/2019/01/15/advanced

 

[PomWombat]

Leeds station just now. 2 x 270s (in Northern n livery) sat idle in platforms 1 and 2. Harrogate service leaves platform 3 formed of 2 x 142.

Don’t think I’ll ever ‘get it’!

Happens every day.

From 17:29 to 18:09, there are 5 consecutive services heading down the Harrogate line at an average of 10 minute intervals. Two services make use of the 170's you spotted lined up. One service makes use of a 170 that comes in at 17:53. One is a day-long diagram that tends to be a sprinter, a pacer, a combination of the two or (rarely) a dual sprinter. The final service is a peak-only infill, usually made up of one or two pacers.

Of the two you saw, one waits about 40 minutes before it goes, with other services using the platform in front. I think they need to stack the platforms like this to get enough departures in the evening rush. The other, however, tends to sit in platform 1 for a long time off-peak.

two 144s went out on the 1713 as far as I could see. There used to be a 2x142 service which was used to swap units around between Neville Hill and Heaton- the single unit which did a couple of return trips to Horsforth coupled to one arriving from Sheffield and the pair would form a Harrogate or Knaresborough service, run empty to York and then up the ECML.

That may have been the pattern before last May's changes. I haven't done (or watched) the coupling thing since then, and the timing of the extra peak fill-in services have change to xx09, xx39 and xx53.

 

[johntea]

It is quite amusing on a morning having the whole 170 first class section to myself from Leeds to Harrogate if one of those turns up, as everyone else seems too scared / unaware that they can sit in there without a first class ticket!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is quite amusing on a morning having the whole 170 first class section to myself from Leeds to Harrogate if one of those turns up, as everyone else seems too scared / unaware that they can sit in there without a first class ticket!

With PFs who can blame them?

Why don't Northern put stickers in the windows? Or indeed introduce First Class fares if units with First Class are the norm!

 

[anamyd]

With PFs who can blame them?

Why don't Northern put stickers in the windows? Or indeed introduce First Class fares if units with First Class are the norm!

"Cabin declassified - Standard"

 

[leo knight]

What is the plan for all the 16 Class 170’s when they are with Northern?
I know the Harrogate Loop, with the enhancements in May to 4tph will see the requirement rise (8/9 units?)
The Leeds-Selby shuttles (2 units)

That accounts for about 10/11 units- what about the rest?
I read in Modern Railways or Rail they are to be deployed on Bridlington-Sheffield’s? Or is the plan for Leeds-Southport still?

Leeds to Carlisle as heard from a reliable source

 

[Halifaxlad]

Leeds to Carlisle as heard from a reliable source

Do they have enough or are they going to supplement existing stock?

 

[superkev]

Leeds to Carlisle as heard from a reliable source

I believe there training up the Sheffield drivers so Sheffield Hull perhaps.
As for Harrogate I would have thought pairs of 150s would be a better match as they will be able to get out of 1st gear.
K

 

[deltic08]

I believe there training up the Sheffield drivers so Sheffield Hull perhaps.
As for Harrogate I would have thought pairs of 150s would be a better match as they will be able to get out of 1st gear.
K

We already have 150s on the loop usually coupled to Pacers in the peaks. Now we have had a taste of 170s, going back to 150s is torture. I had an unrefurbished 150 between Harrogate and Leeds last Thursday in the evening peak. very noisy and scruffy. Northern had the audacity to charge me extra to use it too even though it was a half empty single unit.

Maybe have 158s displaced by 170s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Cabin declassified - Standard"

BR used to have stickers for this eventuality, why the TOCs don't the mind boggles.

 

[superkev]

We already have 150s on the loop usually coupled to Pacers in the peaks. Now we have had a taste of 170s, going back to 150s is torture. I had an unrefurbished 150 between Harrogate and Leeds last Thursday in the evening peak. very noisy and scruffy. Northern had the audacity to charge me extra to use it too even though it was a half empty single unit.

Maybe have 158s displaced by 170s.

Refurbished 150s not too bad and they are 4 car rather than the 170a 3
Pairs of 90mph 158s an option but with there end doors may be better suited to longer routes.
K

 

[superkev]

Leeds to Carlisle as heard from a reliable source

Leeds Carlisle an poor match as with its unfortunate 60mph limit North of Skipton they would be stuck in 1st gear.
158s, particularity the Scotrail scenic version, best for long scenic lines like the S and C.
K

 

[Bletchleyite]

Leeds Carlisle an poor match as with its unfortunate 60mph limit North of Skipton they would be stuck in 1st gear.
158s, particularity the Scotrail scenic version, best for long scenic lines like the S and C.

The S&C has used end-doored stock for years without problems, loadings just aren't high enough for doors at thirds to be needed. That said, 170s have large picture windows with the seats aligned to them, so wouldn't be bad either. That said, without gangways you'd be wanting to reform some to ensure you could use 3 or 4-car sets, given that revenue sales and protection is all done on board - use of 2x2-car would result in a lot of fare dodging once people realised that sitting in the front unit would guarantee no ticket sales and therefore a genuine reason not to pay.

 

[Iskra]

Leeds Carlisle an poor match as with its unfortunate 60mph limit North of Skipton they would be stuck in 1st gear.
158s, particularity the Scotrail scenic version, best for long scenic lines like the S and C.
K

While I agree they are a poor match overall, they would be able to get up to speed on the congested Leeds-Skipton section, which could help pathing and where the door arrangement would help dwell times.

Personally I think they would be best on Leeds-Nottingham/Lincoln services.

 

[deltic08]

While I agree they are a poor match overall, they would be able to get up to speed on the congested Leeds-Skipton section, which could help pathing and where the door arrangement would help dwell times..

No better than 158s as line speed to Skipton is 90mph and 158s get there faster.

 

[LowLevel]

The 170s struggled with the Cambrian Coast when they were first introduced - I can't imagine them doing at all well on the Long Drag!

 

[The Lad]

They would be good on York-Newcastle if Northern ever got to provide a direct service.

 

[Fisherman80]

How about York to Preston services? I think the 170s would be suited to this route.

 

[Eccles1983]

How about York to Preston services? I think the 170s would be suited to this route.

A large stretch of it is limited to 45-40mph through copy pit.