Northern Rail crew shortages.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

455driver

Veteran Member
Joined
10 May 2010
Messages
11,332
Probably caused by drivers not working their rest days due to the dispute over the pay offer.
Northern are short of drivers and rely on the remaining drivers to work rest days just to keep the trains moving.
 

rick9525

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2009
Messages
98
I see a lot issues mentioned due to this. When people have tweeted asking a response NR just said that that one person missing has an effect a number of services. It would seem they have limited contingencies if someone fails to show either through illness or stuck on a delayed service.
 

Geeves

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2009
Messages
1,106
Location
Rochdale
They have 5 or 6 "spare" shifts at each depot but of course once they are gone or elsewhere it soon starts to fall apart, it doesnt help either if the person rostered to the spare shift is also off! Blackpool depot (and others) has been suffering the last few days and a couple of their diagrams cover a whole days worth of trains on lines such as the Orsmkirk branch... Hello bus replacements! Whitby line too, no trains all day due one diagram covering a days service.

They have plenty of new guys in training but obviously that isnt much help. Saturday is going to be terrible, Id just stay at home and avoid the trains if I were you.
 
Last edited:

mafeu

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2014
Messages
50
On Wednesday, the 8.24 Doncaster to Goole from Sheffield ran late with this rationale, 'Crew shortage/delay'. The reason changed to 'problem at level crossing' on departure from Doncaster 25 minutes late.
 

Adam0984

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2014
Messages
787
There's quite a shortage on the west side of both drivers and conductors in the past week out of Leeds the last blackpool at 2105 was cancelled twice with a bus from Hebden Bridge connecting with the 2135 Man Vic. The last Carlisle 1806 was cancelled a couple of times with a bus from Skipton connecting with the 1826 Skipton
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
5,491
Ah....Northern Rail.....

That company makes me wish we could lay tarmac on the tracks and run buses :cry:
 

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,342
Why on earth would you want to do that ? Bus drivers can't drive trains but some train drivers can drive buses ;)
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,534
Location
Macclesfield
Ah....Northern Rail.....

That company makes me wish we could lay tarmac on the tracks and run buses :cry:
They’re a fair bit better than Arriva Trains Northern and First North Western that went before them, in my view. Do you recall the dire straits that I seem to remember both companies getting into with regards to the sheer volume of staff shortages they experienced?

Assuming that the perennial problems of staff shortages and old, dirty and short-formed trains are not endemic to the Northern franchise, it seems a shame that no operator since privatisation has really managed to get a grasp on this particular patch of nettles. Though to an extent Serco-Abellio are hamstrung by the “no growth” terms of the franchise.
 

185

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
3,817
Sadly, much of the management was inherited from the above two companies :(
 

mtbox

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2011
Messages
94
Location
North East
Probably caused by drivers not working their rest days due to the dispute over the pay offer.
Northern are short of drivers and rely on the remaining drivers to work rest days just to keep the trains moving.
The last RDW agreement ran out last week, therefore no rest days are being worked presently. Also the agreement was strictly for training purposes only, so they couldn't just ask a driver in to work uncovered trains.
 

spongsdad

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
160
The last RDW agreement ran out last week, therefore no rest days are being worked presently. Also the agreement was strictly for training purposes only, so they couldn't just ask a driver in to work uncovered trains.
Ah; the good old trades unions. As ever, doing their best to curb the enthusiasm of the punters for the revitalised railways. I'll bet Christmas isn't too far away either. <D
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,637
Ah; the good old trades unions. As ever, doing their best to curb the enthusiasm of the punters for the revitalised railways. I'll bet Christmas isn't too far away either. <D
I think we need a nationwide taxi driver strike, with any train crew that doesn't turn up for work given a formal warning, that way the unions would find what it's like when their members can't get to work.

As Sunday is apparently a rest day aren't Northern advertising a reduced timetable or anything? Does rest day not include Sundays as they get paid double for working it?
 

mtbox

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2011
Messages
94
Location
North East
Ah; the good old trades unions. As ever, doing their best to curb the enthusiasm of the punters for the revitalised railways. I'll bet Christmas isn't too far away either. <D
Wrong. The unions wanted RDW with no strings, which would have enabled Northern to run many services which were subsequently cancelled, as a driver would have been brought in to work a rest day to cover the job. Northern would not sanction this so we had the "for training only" agreement, where a rest day could only be worked for example to release a driver for route learning, and then only a limited number per day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think we need a nationwide taxi driver strike, with any train crew that doesn't turn up for work given a formal warning, that way the unions would find what it's like when their members can't get to work.

As Sunday is apparently a rest day aren't Northern advertising a reduced timetable or anything? Does rest day not include Sundays as they get paid double for working it?
Northern Drivers do not get paid double time for Sunday's.
Get your facts right before spouting drivel on here.
 

spongsdad

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
160
Wrong. The unions wanted RDW with no strings, which would have enabled Northern to run many services which were subsequently cancelled, as a driver would have been brought in to work a rest day to cover the job. Northern would not sanction this so we had the "for training only" agreement, where a rest day could only be worked for example to release a driver for route learning, and then only a limited number per day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Northern Drivers do not get paid double time for Sunday's.
Get your facts right before spouting drivel on here.
The fact remains that industrial action, more accurately defined as industrial inaction, is as predictable as the passage of the seasons. If it's autumn and the Christmas peak is coming into view, you can bet your bottom dollar that the TOCs and the unions will be slugging it out at the passengers' cost and inconvenience.
I couldn't care less what your disputes are about. Go and get them sorted. You all forget that your salaries are paid by the punters and the taxpayers.
 

Tomnick

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2005
Messages
5,342
I couldn't care less what your disputes are about. Go and get them sorted. You all forget that your salaries are paid by the punters and the taxpayers.
Why should that 'fact' compel them to work their rest days? Whether there's an RDW agreement in place or not, they're probably unlikely to actually make themselves available to work if they're all fed up of the place.
 

Minilad

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
4,334
Location
Anywhere B link goes
The fact remains that industrial action, more accurately defined as industrial inaction, is as predictable as the passage of the seasons. If it's autumn and the Christmas peak is coming into view, you can bet your bottom dollar that the TOCs and the unions will be slugging it out at the passengers' cost and inconvenience.
I couldn't care less what your disputes are about. Go and get them sorted. You all forget that your salaries are paid by the punters and the taxpayers.
Funny that you chose to blame the union though and not the TOC management.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,637
Northern Drivers do not get paid double time for Sunday's.
Get your facts right before spouting drivel on here.
As you know how much extra drivers get paid for working Sunday why not post it in response? I've only said what people who call themselves crew members have posted on forums before. If no-one posts the correct information then everyone believes the wrong information.
 

spongsdad

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
160
Funny that you chose to blame the union though and not the TOC management.
It might be something to do with my perception that these problems seem to occur at a time of maximum inconvenience for rail USERS. To be honest, I'm struggling to understand why a TOC would want to forego revenue during a period when services are in high demand. Still, perhaps I should blame prospective passengers for wanting to travel at busy periods. It's the passengers who get the flak after all.
Me; well I'll probably just have to get in the car ;)
 

Albatross

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2008
Messages
66
As you know how much extra drivers get paid for working Sunday why not post it in response? I've only said what people who call themselves crew members have posted on forums before. If no-one posts the correct information then everyone believes the wrong information.

The trouble is that too much absolutely incorrect information gets peddled on here. Not blaming you for that but it's rife on here.

It's whatever hrs you work plus 2 hrs extra for working a Sunday at Northern (west side)
 

Minilad

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
4,334
Location
Anywhere B link goes
It might be something to do with my perception that these problems seem to occur at a time of maximum inconvenience for rail USERS. To be honest, I'm struggling to understand why a TOC would want to forego revenue during a period when services are in high demand. Still, perhaps I should blame prospective passengers for wanting to travel at busy periods. It's the passengers who get the flak after all.
Me; well I'll probably just have to get in the car ;)
May I suggest finding out the facts then and not rely on perception that can be skewed quite easily.
 

spongsdad

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
160
May I suggest finding out the facts then and not rely on perception that can be skewed quite easily.
Doen't it occur to you that if the facts are that easy to discern then the arguments are at an end. Facts are facts and are therefore indisputable. What we get on here are plenty of opinions, yours and mine included.
 

muz379

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2014
Messages
1,828
I think we need a nationwide taxi driver strike, with any train crew that doesn't turn up for work given a formal warning, that way the unions would find what it's like when their members can't get to work.

As Sunday is apparently a rest day aren't Northern advertising a reduced timetable or anything? Does rest day not include Sundays as they get paid double for working it?
Funny that its the unions fault that Northern dont have enough Drivers to cover all its diagrams .

They have 5 or 6 "spare" shifts at each depot but of course once they are gone or elsewhere it soon starts to fall apart, it doesnt help either if the person rostered to the spare shift is also off!
The other problem is route knowledge , in some depots there are loads of drivers who are short on routes so that adds to the problem when you cant bring someone in to cover someones job that they dont sign . Or the men that are rostered to spare signs very little .

Also bearing in mind its just been half term so lots of people will be unwell , and the start of the cold and flu season so more people off as well .
 

MichaelAMW

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2010
Messages
908
Why should that 'fact' compel them to work their rest days? Whether there's an RDW agreement in place or not, they're probably unlikely to actually make themselves available to work if they're all fed up of the place.
I'm interested in the other side of that coin, so to speak: why is it anything to do with the Unions if additional work is on offer and an individual driver wishes to take advantage of that? The Union has an important role in protecting the interests of the drivers, in terms of making sure that the contract in place between the TOC and the employee is enacted fairly, and in representing the drivers collectively and individually in certain respects, but working overtime on a voluntary basis is about an arrangement directly between the driver and the TOC. I guess I am saying that I don't entirely understand the purpose of or need for a RDW agreement.
 

muz379

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2014
Messages
1,828
I'm interested in the other side of that coin, so to speak: why is it anything to do with the Unions if additional work is on offer and an individual driver wishes to take advantage of that? The Union has an important role in protecting the interests of the drivers, in terms of making sure that the contract in place between the TOC and the employee is enacted fairly, and in representing the drivers collectively and individually in certain respects, but working overtime on a voluntary basis is about an arrangement directly between the driver and the TOC. I guess I am saying that I don't entirely understand the purpose of or need for a RDW agreement.
One of the big ways I have seen unions get involved with rest days is equalization , so that all drivers that want rest days get an equal amount . Because of the large amounts of money on offer working rest days can lead to disputes between the TOC and individual drivers when they feel other drivers are being offered more rest days and getting treated differently and essentially being paid more .
 

Jamesb1974

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2006
Messages
596
You all forget that your salaries are paid by the punters and the taxpayers.
What does that even mean? EVERYONE in EVERY job has some punter or tax payer that pays the wages. Even if you're self employed, your customers pay your wages.

It doesn't mean that workers shouldn't fight for better terms and conditions, just because someone else pays the money that pays the wages.
 

driver_m

Established Member
Joined
8 Nov 2011
Messages
2,249
This thread has it all. Misinformation, anti-union agenda, idiotic proposals, blatantly wrong information. I only wish my northern colleagues could look at this and laugh the same. I feel so sorry for them with the garbage they get given to use, the crap they have to put up with from users, (when it should be their managers who get it) and then have to read some of the bilge on here, all because they dare to dream to have something better like those of us who work for relatively normal companies. I really do thank my lucky stars that I work for who I do. So if they don't want to work themselves into the ground doing RDW, WHY SHOULD THEY? No one would thank them for it. Good luck northern staffers in whatever you do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top