Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[LNW-GW Joint]

Network Rail sets the national rail timetable, based on bids by the individual TOCs (passenger and freight).
There is an iterative process lasting (I think) 18 months or so, leading up to the two main change dates in each year.
Draft timetable are prepared and reviewed, with amendments made by both TOCs and Network Rail.
December is the main change date, May is normally a secondary change, with fewer alterations.
These dates are coordinated (to a degree) across Europe.

The TOCs have timetable plans based on their franchise agreements with the DfT (ie frequency, stopping patterns, first/last trains etc).
Network Rail has all the details of capacity, speeds and all sorts of factors which affect timetabling (signalling, headway, paths across junctions, station dwell times etc).
A route's requirement for engineering access is also factored into the plans (blockades for track renewals, resignalling, electrification etc).
Once the overall timetable is approved (supposedly 12 weeks before it starts), the TOCs can then publish their local versions of the timetable.
Changes to the timetable can be accommodated, but the process doesn't like major changes at the last minute.
Northern and TPE have been forced into their recent changes by delays in electrification schemes, and have had to replan everything in the last 8 weeks or so.
It's therefore not surprising there is stress in the resulting timetable and the way it is resourced with trains and crews.
The timetable just introduced was intended to start last December.
More big changes across the north are planned for next December to, as electrification completes and more stock arrives.

 

[The Planner]

Not quite, look below for the process. We could never offer a LTP timetable 12 weeks out (if following the process...), that is STP. LTP is 26 weeks out, therefore we are offering Dec 18 in a week or so. We haven't properly considered May 19 at all yet and TOCs have only just been sending in any major changes.

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...-Milestone-dates-2019-Principal-timetable.pdf

 

[Merseysider]

Pleased to report that my commute between Manchester and Bolton has gone tits up for the fifth day in a row, with the amount of free vouchers requested in lieu of Delay Repay effectively giving me a free week’s travel once my season runs out.

Communication on the ground as to what will run has been non-existent. Yesterday I even witnessed a dispatcher asking several Northern members of staff in exasperation whether they were the driver for a service he’d been waiting to dispatch for 20 minutes

Whilst I don’t know whether attempts to source buses or coaches were made, from the passenger’s point of view it’s incredibly poor to be left waiting 30+ minutes without information on a regular basis, with no replacement coaches/buses in sight.

I normally have a choice of a few trains to get to/from work; this week I’ve counted approximately 20 cancellations of trains I’d otherwise be on.

It’s not good enough.

 

[greyman42]

Why does the new York - Huddersfield service terminate at Leeds on the return journey ?

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Having been in Leeds earlier in the week for the first time in ages I was surprised at the number of 321/322s that are out all day now, I’m sure it used to be 2 on DON-LDS plus 1 on Airedale with the rest peak only. There seemed to be at least 4 out all day now on Airedale.

I have definitely noticed the increase in 321s but i am very surprised they are running diesels on it given the shortage of DMUs... Unless there are some incredibly bizarre stock moves going on?

 

[Fylde Coaster]

Many thanks to LNW-GW & The Planner for your respective replies (2131&3132) to my previous post 2130.
They do go some way to explain the vagaries of timetable development and how late changes by any party can throw a spanner in the works.
With all the other external projects and Northern Rail's internal politics it's got all the ingredients of a "perfect storm".
Unfortunately no consolation to the travelling public trying to earn an honest living.
Cheers Gents.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think the 06:35 Buxton to Piccadilly may be 4-car what are Northern thinking of?!

 

[andyc20050]

Windermere branch has been very hit and miss this week. Was told they now have coaches on standby at both ends all day.

 

[geoffk]

Today the 1129 Man Airport - Blackpool North was reinstated after having been cancelled from Oxford Road. At 1204 a class 319 came into platform 2 and the 1208 to Middlesbrough had to be switched to the little-used platform 1. The electric unit emptied as it was being terminated, we were told, but the missing crew member must have arrived as it was reinstated as far as Preston, departing at 1215, 24 late. The normal stops at Wigan NW and Leyland were announced but maybe few were aware of it as there were not many on board. Arrival at Wigan was at 1240, 22 late. The Virgin Trains station staff had evidently not been informed this train had been reinstated and were surprised when the doors opened and I and several others got off. This service has suffered badly from cancellations all week.

 

[IanXC]

The last one of the day actually goes to Victoria, then ECS to Newton Heath.

Q: There's an imbalance in the journeys, there's one fewer eastbound, the stock for the first westbound comes from Huddersfield sidings. Assuming that all journeys are operated by Manchester-based crews, how do they get to Huddersfield for the first departure?

Ah yes so there is! Having previously just looked at Huddersfield - Piccadilly and vice versa the sets appeared to balance, but clearly there is some transfer from east to west going on via this service too.

Why does the new York - Huddersfield service terminate at Leeds on the return journey ?

The old Selby - Huddersfield used to do exactly the same.

There is also a Manchester Victoria to York, but only a Leeds to Manchester Victoria.

 

[js1000]

Judging by statistics from Thursday and today, Northern run a better service when there is a strike

 

[geoffk]

Judging by statistics from Thursday and today, Northern run a better service when there is a strike.

Friday was a new nadir. Only 31.1% on-time, 26.6% late and 42% of services either very late or cancelled.

Yet the Leeds area has performed reasonably well. Fewer timetable changes and fewer trains changing crews in Leeds station, only one main station and a less complex track movement with fewer conflicting movements.

 

[bearhugger]

Hi @Fylde Coaster. Welcome to the forums. As I understand it, the *basic* process for the final timetable is something like as follows:

• The various Tocs submit a provisional timetable plan as to what they would like to run
  
• Network Rail look at all the plans and revise them
• Network Rail point out any clashes in paths and then there are a series of back & forths between the Tocs & NR to sort out the small details.

I'm sure there's a little more to it but others may come along and build upon what I've said.

 

[northernchris]

Yet the Leeds area has performed reasonably well. Fewer timetable changes and fewer trains changing crews in Leeds station, only one main station and a less complex track movement with fewer conflicting movements.

Leeds has also held up better in terms of crew availability with the vast majority of cancellations being services that are crewed from west side depots. From my own observations the biggest issue has been delays on approach to the station, I've been on 3 services this week that were on time until Leeds West Junction then incurred a 5-10 minute delay awaiting platform.

 

[Camden]

Leeds has also held up better in terms of crew availability with the vast majority of cancellations being services that are crewed from west side depots.

Northern may have some explaining to do as to why at the end of July last year they advertised for Liverpool based trainee drivers... only to abruptly withdraw that from their hiring plans in early August. Any whines now about it taking time to recruit and skill up drivers would ring somewhat hollow, in the face of that fact.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Windermere branch has been very hit and miss this week. Was told they now have coaches on standby at both ends all day.

Windermere line performance over the past four weeks:

week commencing Sunday 29 April
33.04% cancelled

week commencing Sunday 6 May
9.47% cancelled wholly excluding a strike day
16.96% cancelled including a strike day

week commencing Sunday 13 May
20.54% cancelled

week commencing Sunday 20 May
38.82% cancelled wholly excluding 2 strike days
45.45% cancelled including 2 strike days

Friday 25th - just 2 departures after 0937 at 1232 and 1945!

 

[js1000]

Northern may have some explaining to do as to why at the end of July last year they advertised for Liverpool based trainee drivers... only to abruptly withdraw that from their hiring plans in early August. Any whines now about it taking time to recruit and skill up drivers would ring somewhat hollow, in the face of that fact.

Were Northern expecting the proposed May 2018 timetable to be altered that meant they withdrew Liverpool hiring plans?

I recall the Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street via Manchester Airport was only Crewe to Wigan North Western via the Airport.

 

[yorksrob]

The new Sunday service on the Settle and Carlisle is a definite improvement. Particularly the last train to Leeds, which avoids the need to end in Settle and traipse all the way to Giggleswick for the last train. At Ribblehead, there were huge crowds of walkers catching what previously would have been the last train back and rather fewer on the actual last train. I wonder how long it will be before they cotton on !

There's still room for improvement. The fast train still makes it a bit awkward to arrange stop offs at Ribblehead or Garsdale, but definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[thejuggler]

Leeds has also held up better in terms of crew availability with the vast majority of cancellations being services that are crewed from west side depots. From my own observations the biggest issue has been delays on approach to the station, I've been on 3 services this week that were on time until Leeds West Junction then incurred a 5-10 minute delay awaiting platform.

Same as I experienced. All on time until Leeds, then 5-10 minutes delay before leaving.

 

[TUC]

This morning's 0753 Sowerby Bridge -Leeds is showing on RTT as cancelled from its start at Preston throughout ''due to a planning error'.

Anyone care to speculate what a ''planning error' is a euphemism for?

As the key train for a before 0900 arrival into Leeds, as well as the connection into the Halifax-Kings Cross service, this is one of the worst options for cancelling this morning.

 

[TUC]

Currently at Halifax where GC's 0809 Halifax-Kings Cross is delayed 'due to train crew being delayed'. GC have tweeted that it is due to the driver being delayed into Bradford on another service, which does make it look like the contagion from Northern's ineptness is having a wider effect.

 

[josh-j]

Several Northern cancellations in advance between Huddersfield and Manchester now due to "a shortage of drivers" (affecting the peak time trains that complement TPE for intermediate stations). That seems sensible in the circumstances - beats being cancelled two minutes before departure time!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There is also a Manchester Victoria to York, but only a Leeds to Manchester Victoria.

If I'm right, the new diagram runs as York - Huddersfield, Huddersfield - Leeds, Leeds - Man Vic, Man Vic - York. Where this leaves the Leeds to Southport services I don't know unless their now self contained.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Seems almost everything northern run to preston from piccadilly is cancelled this PM peak. First day commuting on new timetable and it seems absolutely chaotic.

 

[northernchris]

If I'm right, the new diagram runs as York - Huddersfield, Huddersfield - Leeds, Leeds - Man Vic, Man Vic - York. Where this leaves the Leeds to Southport services I don't know unless their now self contained.

Yes, Leeds-Southport is now self-contained

 

[northernchris]

Currently at Halifax where GC's 0809 Halifax-Kings Cross is delayed 'due to train crew being delayed'. GC have tweeted that it is due to the driver being delayed into Bradford on another service, which does make it look like the contagion from Northern's ineptness is having a wider effect.

I did wonder if any of Northern's staff (be that frontline or office based) are struggling getting in on time because of the disruption

 

[Bevan Price]

This morning's 0753 Sowerby Bridge -Leeds is showing on RTT as cancelled from its start at Preston throughout ''due to a planning error'.

Anyone care to speculate what a ''planning error' is a euphemism for?
.

Incompetence.

 

[geoffk]

Seems almost everything northern run to preston from piccadilly is cancelled this PM peak. First day commuting on new timetable and it seems absolutely chaotic.

Trains to Hadfield/Glossop, New Mills/Hope Valley/Rose Hill seem to have been unaffected by cancellations as they are self-contained and do not cross Manchester, and presumably they are crewed by depots not suffering from staff shortage.

 

[wellhouse]

Anyone care to speculate what a ''planning error' is a euphemism for?

May Timetable?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Trains to Hadfield/Glossop, New Mills/Hope Valley/Rose Hill seem to have been unaffected by cancellations as they are self-contained and do not cross Manchester, and presumably they are crewed by depots not suffering from staff shortage.

Depot singular, Piccadilly. Which also had the smallest training requirement arising from the new timetable and has no work to Blackpool.