Northern want more female train drivers

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aformeruser

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THE UK’s largest train operator is looking for women to join its driving team in Liverpool.

Northern Rail has a vacancy going live from today, and wants to see as many women as possible apply for the role.

The company employs 1,352 drivers, with only 66 of those women. It hopes flexible working hours, enviable benefits and a salary rising to £38,906 by the third year will appeal to women either looking for a career change or to go back to work following unemployment or a career break.

The training programme for drivers is 33 weeks long and a combination of classroom and practical training.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...-train-drivers-100252-30866319/#ixzz1tWxfWMTm
 
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notadriver

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THE UK’s largest train operator is looking for women to join its driving team in Liverpool.

Northern Rail has a vacancy going live from today, and wants to see as many women as possible apply for the role.

The company employs 1,352 drivers, with only 66 of those women. It hopes flexible working hours, enviable benefits and a salary rising to £38,906 by the third year will appeal to women either looking for a career change or to go back to work following unemployment or a career break.

The training programme for drivers is 33 weeks long and a combination of classroom and practical training.

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...-train-drivers-100252-30866319/#ixzz1tWxfWMTm
Train driving doesn't have flexible hours. It's not like on the buses where there is a 'day' rota for example.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Train driving doesn't have flexible hours. It's not like on the buses where there is a 'day' rota for example.
As a passenger train driver there's day shifts, night shifts, late shifts, early shifts, afternoon shifts etc. So long as you can find people willing to swap then in most cases it can be quite flexible and you could ensure that quite a lot of the time you work your desired hours.
 

notadriver

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If you can't work all the shift patterns you shouldn't be doing the job. Its the very early starts and late finishes which can put some off.
 

Beveridges

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Most people can cope with the extremes but there's many who are sleep deprived due to the hours being impossible to sleep due to starting work so early, or finishing so late (nights), or extreme changearounds (night to early shift with 1 RD Imbetween)
If anyone manages to regularly swap to get out of doing their most hated shift type Every time (especially if it's nights or earlys) is very lucky, as no one wants to do those more than they have to so who would take them off you
 
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All aboard

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As a female working as a conductor, hoping to go driving soon, shift work is great! As i'm lucky enough to have a hands on partner, one of us drop of the kids, and the other can pick up (with extra help from the mother in law). Starting in the rail industry with a 1 and 2 year old, and without any favourtism as a female in my industry, i've had no problems. Would def recommend. After 2am feeds, adjusting your body clock is now problem :D
 

185

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I'll get me Lily Savage wig on.

:( remember the days when train companies used to recruit on ability?
 

BestWestern

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Hmm, indeed. I would have to agree that when recruiting it should be merit and suitability for the job which counts more than anything else, whatever the situation. It's interesting how it can be perfectly acceptable to specifically ask for a certain demographic when they are deemed to be in a 'minority' in any given situation, but if you were to place an advert stating that you would ideally like white British males for example you would no doubt be duly vilified. 'Positive discrimination' is an example of the very worst degree of management bollox that we all have to put up with in the workplace nowadays. Ho hum...
 

Temple Meads

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It seems very much discriminatory to me, although it's undoubtedly a good thing to see more women in the job, train drivers should be selected on their capability and suitability for the job, possibly superior candidates should not be excluded because they don't fit a certain demographic!
 

Asian Demon

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It seems the days of people being hired on ability as a whole is dying out. I believe the term is 'it's who you know, not what you know'. I learned this lesson the hard way very recently.
 

Nym

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Funny ya know, there's a big scheme called WiSET (Women in Science Engineering and Technology) and at a recent assessment centre for an Engineering role, in the rail industry, want to know how many females were present at the whole thing...

One, and that was the HR Development Manager, all applicants, be it project management or engineering, and all assessors were male...

Even at a large public sector organisation, there was one female previous graduate (there always will be, for show) and no female applicants.

There are many a job were it is a disadvantage to be male, and traditionally has been, you don't see man's groups coming up and moaning about how women get all the jobs do you?

PS: WiSET is something that has been complained about many times, they get first refusal on a lot of advantages in universities and job applications, just because they're female...

Their home page doesn't instil confidence in more women becoming engineers if that's how they react to a conical flask with some vapour coming out of it...
 

Schnellzug

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So is thuis political correctness over-riding ability? Something we're familiar with in the world of Politics, of coruse, but disappointing to see it permeating to the real world..
 

Mojo

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I'll get me Lily Savage wig on.

:( remember the days when train companies used to recruit on ability?
They still do.

Hmm, indeed. I would have to agree that when recruiting it should be merit and suitability for the job which counts more than anything else, whatever the situation.
It is, and in most cases is the only way to recruit.[1]
'Positive discrimination' is an example of the very worst degree of management bollox that we all have to put up with in the workplace nowadays. Ho hum...
Positive discrimination is illegal and is not used in the recruitment process for any full-time, permanent position. Even if there is a case where you have two people with what appear to be exactly the same amount of suitability for a position, but one is from a minority, you should reconsider your scoring, run a more intensive interview process, etc.

It seems very much discriminatory to me, although it's undoubtedly a good thing to see more women in the job, train drivers should be selected on their capability and suitability for the job, possibly superior candidates should not be excluded because they don't fit a certain demographic!
They are.

I think a number of people have misunderstood this advertisement. It is an example of positive action; encouraging under-represented groups to work for the company. They are not rejecting applications from anyone at all because of their gender. With a very small number of exceptions, that would be illegal.

[1] Under the Race Relations Act 1976, if a racial group is under-represented, then a training scheme may be run specifically for the minority groups concerned
 

Woolsty

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Most major employers will discriminate in order to fill its quota of minorities, it happens everywhere.
 

Nym

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Nice for places that are male dominated, especially where 99.9% of women don't want to do the work, it means that any woman that does is almost guaranteed the job weather they're good at it or not...
 

185

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If they are recruiting good candidates from diverse backgrounds who put the overtime in and rarely go sick, and have a good safety record, then I applaud any company that does this. If companies are recruiting bad candidates over good candidates which happens on the railway a lot, then they need to think again.

Northern Rail notably invited to assessment a fake candidate with quite (well, very) concerning things written later in the application, suggesting they don't even look through them properly. Were they looking at the person applying or the actual application?
 

A-driver

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Reminds me of what a mate was telling me a while back-when LOROL built NXG depot they built it for about 300 drivers and split the locker room into two-150 lockers in the male room and 150 in the female. I believe when 300 drivers turned up about 3 were women and the other 297 guys had to squeeze into the male locker room!

Many have the exact numbers wrong but was along those lines!

I think it's the lack of a mirror behind the sunvisor in the cabs that puts most women off driving-can't touch the lipstick up when they arrive at their destination. And the fact that you can't get high heels on the safety foot ware.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Train driving doesn't have flexible hours. It's not like on the buses where there is a 'day' rota for example.
That's not true at all. It is very easy to create a link which fits 'flexible hours' and put people in it. The bigger the depot the easier this is to achieve, but it can be done pretty much anywhere.
 

Cherry_Picker

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It's common across the country mate. It might not be at your particular place of employment, but it happens everywhere. I am actually surprised you have never encountered it.
 

telstarbox

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Most major employers will discriminate in order to fill its quota of minorities, it happens everywhere.
Example?



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'll get me Lily Savage wig on.

:( remember the days when train companies used to recruit on ability?
They do. As if Northern want unsafe drivers driving hundreds of people at speed just to tick boxes?


 

John55

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Northern Rail has a vacancy going live from today, and wants to see as many women as possible apply for the role.
It seems very much discriminatory to me, although it's undoubtedly a good thing to see more women in the job, train drivers should be selected on their capability and suitability for the job, possibly superior candidates should not be excluded because they don't fit a certain demographic!
It seems the days of people being hired on ability as a whole is dying out. I believe the term is 'it's who you know, not what you know'. I learned this lesson the hard way very recently.
Funny ya know, there's a big scheme called WiSET (Women in Science Engineering and Technology) and at a recent assessment centre for an Engineering role, in the rail industry, want to know how many females were present at the whole thing...

One, and that was the HR Development Manager, all applicants, be it project management or engineering, and all assessors were male...

Even at a large public sector organisation, there was one female previous graduate (there always will be, for show) and no female applicants.

There are many a job were it is a disadvantage to be male, and traditionally has been, you don't see man's groups coming up and moaning about how women get all the jobs do you?

PS: WiSET is something that has been complained about many times, they get first refusal on a lot of advantages in universities and job applications, just because they're female...

Their home page doesn't instil confidence in more women becoming engineers if that's how they react to a conical flask with some vapour coming out of it...
It is interesting that encouraging women to apply for a job is discriminatory in some peoples minds. Presumably because these people are frightened that a competent woman will be better than they are!

In my experience of recruiting staff in a field where it is relatively unusual for women to be employed (engineering) the ones who are there are better suited to the job than most of the men. Often this is because there is more motivation for the individual to be in the job or profession. This could easily be the case in train driving.

When did the railway become a promote on merit industry? Traditionally it has been promote on seniority not ability. As an example it is not so long ago that the one of the unions went on strike to stop that happening on the Underground and so prevent the implementation of one of the recommendations of the Kings Cross inquiry.
 

Asian Demon

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It is interesting that encouraging women to apply for a job is discriminatory in some peoples minds. Presumably because these people are frightened that a competent woman will be better than they are!
It's not that I find it discriminatory. God knows the industry as a whole needs a more diverse workforce. I just hope that regardless of ambition, companies will not make it a box ticking exercise (choose to fill quotas etc etc) but choose candidates based on who is good for the job, whether male or female. It is just a recognised point that sometimes companies will hire people and it isn't based on the capability of the individual for the job advertised. This ends up working to the detriment of the most important person for the railway. The Passenger.
 

Nym

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It is interesting that encouraging women to apply for a job is discriminatory in some peoples minds. Presumably because these people are frightened that a competent woman will be better than they are!
WiSET is discriminatory because of the extra funding, training and events only available to women, it isn't simply marketing... Do look into things before you say that I'm scared of a little competition.
 

TDK

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I'll get me Lily Savage wig on.

:( remember the days when train companies used to recruit on ability?
When sifting the person responsible for the sifting with the comapany I used to work for did not have any names, gender or ethnic criteria attached to the application form so therefore everyone is on an equal platform however because of the nature of the job a woman if having a carreer that did not include engineering, continuous employment ie time out to bring up children, having not done any shifts before etc. would to be honest find it difficult to pass the sift.

I have employed a woman driver before and she had all the criteria required for the role and in no circumstances would I reward a candidate with a job because of what is known to be favourable for the companies image but also putting a risk on safety and profitability with the company.

The long and short of it is that not many women actually apply for the job in comparison to men and I think this is that men like trains in a different way than women, you always see men on platforms with their sons waving at the driver and very rarely do you see them with their daughters and this was more apparent say 20 to 40 years ago when it was lets say traditional for daddy to take the lad out and mummy cooked cakes with the girly.
 

Mojo

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It's not that I find it discriminatory. God knows the industry as a whole needs a more diverse workforce. I just hope that regardless of ambition, companies will not make it a box ticking exercise (choose to fill quotas etc etc)
They can't do this... and they don't do this.

This is a perfect example of 'positive action,' encouraging under-represented groups to apply for roles. If the best candidate for the role is a woman, and she is put off applying for the job because she has heard that there are no female toilets/there are photos of naked women in the mess rooms/etc. then that isn't recruiting based on merit.
 

W230

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Northern are simply trying to encourage more females to apply for a job which is over represented by males - probably (as already said) because there are such a low number of female applicants.

At the end of the day, everyone will still have to pass the assessments/interviews regardless of gender. At the FCC assessment day I went to there was one female out of the 46 of us there. Sort of highlights Northern's point really...

Just because they're encouraging female applicants doesn't mean they're discriminating based on gender! :lol:
 

John55

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WiSET is discriminatory because of the extra funding, training and events only available to women, it isn't simply marketing... Do look into things before you say that I'm scared of a little competition.
It was my middle paragraph which was addressed to your comments. So don't get all out of shape about it. It was you who drew the conclusion not me.
 
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