OAP free bus passes on trains?

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Howardh

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Dad has asked me a question and I don't know the answer - can you help?

They have a bus-pass (well over 65!) and want to know if they can use it to travel on local trains for free? If so, what determines *local*?

Tried to look it up, but explanations are sketchy so I'm hoping the experts on here can help!

BTW their local area is Greater Manchester.

Cheers!
 
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sonic2009

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Anywhere within this map shown here on Trains and Metrolink, and of course Buses within this area as well

Valid on Buses, Trains and Metrolink after 9:30am Weekdays, and all day Saturday and Sundays.
 

tony_mac

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button_boxer

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http://www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/tickets_low_fares_over60.cfm?submenuheader=1

Holders of GM-issued concessionary passes get free train travel after 09:30 weekdays and all day at weekends for journeys which begin and end within Greater Manchester. If their pass is not issued by a GM authority then they'll have to pay full fare (but conversely they may get additional concessions within their local authority area which GM pass holders would not be entitled to)
 

scrapy

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Just to add that not only must a journey start and finish in Greater Manchester but it must also not go outside the Greater Manchester ticketing area. For example you couldn't do Manchester Airport to Cheadle Hulme via Wilmslow, even though this would be a valid route on an 'any permitted' ticket.
 

Howardh

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Thanks for all that, I'll pass it on. Must admit I can't find anything on the GMPTE website, maybe I've looked in the wrong places!
 

phil8715

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Don't understand why Manchester pass holders can use Blackpool trams and why we can't use the Metrolink in Manchester, I'm a holder of a disabled concessionary bus pass.


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Max

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Don't understand why Manchester pass holders can use Blackpool trams and why we can't use the Metrolink in Manchester, I'm a holder of a disabled concessionary bus pass.


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This will be related to the funding provided by the local authority/PTE. South Yorkshire pass-holders can use Northern trains to/from West Yorkshire for free but West Yorkshire pass-holders now have to pay half fare on all their local trains and get 1/3 off for travel to South Yorkshire after WYPTE cut the funding!
 

Bayum

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This will be related to the funding provided by the local authority/PTE. South Yorkshire pass-holders can use Northern trains to/from West Yorkshire for free but, apart from OAPs, West Yorkshire pass-holders now have to pay FULL FARE on all their local trains (OAPs pay half fare) after WYPTE cut the funding!

Not sure where you have got that from...


It's certainly not 50p per journey like it used to be, but it definitely isn't full fare either.

From: http://www.wymetro.com/TicketsAndPasses/concessionarytravel/railhalffare


'For all train travel on trains departing after 0930, Mondays to Fridays, and all day Saturdays, Sundays and public Holidays pass holders:

For a single journey, pay approximately half the adult single anytime fare.
For a return journey, pay approximately half the adult off-peak return fare. '
 

phil8715

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This will be related to the funding provided by the local authority/PTE. South Yorkshire pass-holders can use Northern trains to/from West Yorkshire for free but, apart from OAPs, West Yorkshire pass-holders now have to pay FULL FARE on all their local trains (OAPs pay half fare) after WYPTE cut the funding!
Did you know that OAP's that live in Northern Ireland get free bus and train travel in the whole of ireland despite it being 2 countries.


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Max

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Not sure where you have got that from...


It's certainly not 50p per journey like it used to be, but it definitely isn't full fare either.

From: http://www.wymetro.com/TicketsAndPasses/concessionarytravel/railhalffare
Apologies, I was clearly misinformed on this and I have corrected my post. At work we have to know about the benefits that South Yorkshire ENCTS pass-holders get, but I don't tend to come into contact with West Yorkshire pass-holders so I am never required to look up the information! Have to say, it is a rather confusing situation.
 

Solent&Wessex

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The whole issue of who gets what for "free" with the Concessionary Bus Passes does vary around the country, and is based around what each local authority is prepared to pay for. The PTE areas and London are the most generous, with rural counties being the least generous, generally speaking.

It is a contentious issue as while the actual travel may be "free" at the time of travel it is not "free" at all - somebody has to pay for it.

For rail travel it is often very difficult to describe how the funding in PTE areas is distributed, but for buses it is easier, and partly goes to explain why different areas have different priorities and things have changed over time.

A friend of mine is a bus driver for a small, local, family bus company operating in a rural area. Before the free bus pass came about the local authority issued a local pass to local residents. This gave half fare bus travel, which the bus company was happy to live with as some of the services the company operated were tendered by the council anyway (i.e. the council paid the bus company to run the bus in the first place). So, the bus company got a subsidy to run the bus, half fare from local residents (which obviously varied with the distance travelled) and full fare from everyone else.

After the free bus pass came about, the system was set up so that the local council had to pay the bus company the fare for any pass holder who joined a bus within their council area. The council decreed that they would pay the bus company a fixed amount per person, regardless of distance travelled. As it happened, the amount paid by the council did not match the amount the bus company used to collect in cash fares, so the bus company lost out in income. It also lost out in cash flow as the council only paid the bus company quarterly, rather than they bus company getting the money on a daily basis. Similarly the council said it couldn't afford to pay the bus company any more money as the amount it received from the government to pay for the scheme did not match the amount it needed to pay out to the bus operators. Essentially, the council was now paying for the subsidised bus twice - they were firstly paying the bus company to run the bus, then paying the bus company again for the (free) passengers who travelled. With it being a rural area, the majority of passengers were travelling "free".

The bus company was upset it was loosing revenue, so hiked the cash fares up for those that did pay. The council said it couldn't afford to pay for all the subsidised buses to carry around folk for "free", so cut back some of the subsidised services to save money. In the end everyone looses out.

In the area above the local council will subsidise the cost of a Senior Railcard for its own local residents however.

In the PTE area where I live they have now just conducted a "bus review" and revised - i.e. reduced - bus timetables start next month. My informed sources within the PTE advise a similar tale to the above. They simply couldn't afford to pay the bus operators to run the buses and then pay them again to carry folk for "free", as well as pay the rail operators for a generous concessionary travel scheme. So something had to give - namely the concessionary rail travel scheme became slightly less generous (half fare rather than a low flat rate) and a trimming back of subsidised bus services is taking place.

So, local authorities can give whatever concessions it likes, but somebody will pay - and the more you give out will be balanced by cuts or altered funding elsewhere. GMPTE likes to give lots away for free, and pours money in Metrolink, but apart from that it doesn't pay too much attention to train services and station environments or other things for the general masses. WYPTE however prefers to spend money on more things which benefit everyone, whilst balancing this with slightly less generous benefits for bus pass holders.
 

Howardh

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Yes, there's no point in having a free bus pass when there aren't any buses to go on...

Can't understand it myself - if you go on a journey then you pay for that journey, regardless of age!

No problem with having a system like the concessionary pass on the railways - pay a set amount then a third off (half off would be better IMO) but how does that set amount get distributed amongst the various bus companies?

I notice there's no such free travel for old folk wanting to use taxis!
 

dggar

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Don't understand why Manchester pass holders can use Blackpool trams and why we can't use the Metrolink in Manchester, I'm a holder of a disabled concessionary bus pass.


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I've never come across this.

Do you know of a reference for this
 

John @ home

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Don't understand why Manchester pass holders can use Blackpool trams and why we can't use the Metrolink in Manchester.
I've never come across this.

Do you know of a reference for this
It appears that it is concessionary pass holders resident in Lancashire County Council, Blackburn with Darwen Council and Blackpool Council areas who may travel free of charge between 0930 and 2300 Mondays to Fridays and all day on Saturdays and Sundays and Bank Holidays on Tramcar services in Blackpool and Wyre (except special tours and excursions, after 6pm on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays and the October school half term during the illuminations period).
Joint Concessionary Travel Scheme 2011-2012 said:
Persons eligible to receive concessions, whose sole or principal residence is in the areas
listed at 1 above [1], will be issued with a NoWcard ENCTS entitling the holder to the travel concessions set out below in Schedule 2 Part I and II. ...

SCHEDULE 2 - PART II

B. Holders of English National Concessionary travel passes can travel free of charge between 0930 and 2300 Mondays to Fridays and all day on Saturdays and Sundays and Bank Holidays on:
a) Tramcar services in Blackpool and Wyre (except special tours and excursions, after 6pm on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays and the October school half term during the
illuminations period).

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/enviro...Joint_Concessionary_Travel_Scheme_2011_12.pdf

[1] - the Unitary Councils of Blackburn with Darwen and Blackpool and Lancashire County Council
This document also has information on Calculation of the Reimbursement of Operators relevant to kwvr45's interesting post #12 above.
 
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Statto

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Just to add that not only must a journey start and finish in Greater Manchester but it must also not go outside the Greater Manchester ticketing area. For example you couldn't do Manchester Airport to Cheadle Hulme via Wilmslow, even though this would be a valid route on an 'any permitted' ticket.
However if they buy the Wayfarer which they get the concession price at £5, they can do that journey.

As been said TFL & PTE areas are quite generous where the passes can be valid on, although PTE/TFL areas always had this validity on passes before it went National, & quite a few areas there passes only qualified for half fare before they went National.
 

34D

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This will be related to the funding provided by the local authority/PTE. South Yorkshire pass-holders can use Northern trains to/from West Yorkshire for free but West Yorkshire pass-holders now have to pay half fare on all their local trains and get 1/3 off for travel to South Yorkshire after WYPTE cut the funding!
Blummin eck, I didn't realise that South Yorks biddies could get to Leeds for free too!!

Do they need to buy a (zero-cost) ticket or do they just board with their ENCTS card? Possibly this is what the ITSO readers at Sheffield Midland are for?

In case this shows in someones searches, biddies can't change trains within west yorkshire - so this limits them to stations to Huddersfield, Leeds or Pontefract baghill, plus anomolies (about the only one I can find is the 17:43 leeds-dewsbury-hud-peni st-sheff (with no morning working I don't think anymore - even if it did run it would be before the pass start time)).

It does seem very strange indeed that SY people can travel free South Elmsall to Leeds but WY people have to pay!

Didn't bus in SY used to be 24/7 or am I getting confused?
 
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