Reports locally suggest that 319446 was on Allerton Depot this morning. Is this another for 769 conversion?
That's in either Wolverton or Ilford already IIRC, it might have been 215 that was hauled by road.A 319 was moved by road from Wolverton to Brush week commencing 7/5, anyone know the ID please? Possibly 319012.
Any news on these? Going to displayed tomorrow I hear at Rail Live? Northern could desperately do with these.
Whoever said that Northern could order Stadler's and have them before the 769's turn a wheel in service, I think you've called it.Judging by a post on WNXX, it isn't coming to Rail Live.
Whoever said that Northern could order Stadler's and have them before the 769's turn a wheel in service, I think you've called it.
How quickly can Vivarail build 230s though? The 769s are supposed to be in service with Northern and ATW right now.While their product isn't quite the same, I bet Vivarail are preparing to laugh all the way to the bank. It would in many of these cases be possible to order 230s instead, and use them in a different place to cascade other DMUs (e.g. 150s, a pair of which is from a passenger's point of view near identical to a 769) onto the routes that would be operated using 769s.
Certainly the substitute would work at Wales and Borders, and it could at GWR as well if they got a few to work the branches and release Turbos to run the services planned for 769s.
Northern, OTOH, would probably be better off benefitting CAF by chucking a few extra 3-car DMUs on their Class 195 order.
If that's the case, I'm not sure they are going to fare much better rolling out 769s - sure the 319 is a familiar sight on parts of Northern's network, but, that has a downside of it already being known as 'old' - bear in mind many are the same age as the Pacers!The 230s will be an anthema to Arriva and Northern. It would be a PR disaster and that is the last thing they need. Things are so tense between passengers/local MPs and Northern Rail. Using 40 year old Underground hand me downs would really be the final straw for some.
My question would be at what point do Northern (and other TOCs) give up and simply throw the towel in and look elsewhere?
And would Porterbrook be under contractual obligation to order new rolling stock given they have failed to meet Northern's deadline for delivery?
I guess it depends on whether Northern put a clause in the agreement which necessitates a bi-mode rolling stock order because Porterbrook are holding Northern and their passengers to ransom over this now. Not to mention Wales & GWR too. Some certainty is required.
I think it would have to be, given that the Northern franchise bid assumed electrification of various lines at various times as instructed by DfT. If this hasn't happened then Northern would be entitled to extra funding to keep the service running. Similarly with VTEC and the ECML upgrades, and no doubt numerous others.I suspect the 769 order was engineered by DfT (or is being funded by them) as a consequence of the electrification slippage/cancellation.
Northern didn't contract the 769s on the open market as they did the CAF trains.
It's not particularly pleasant to refer to people as 'moaners' - however, in any case, most people are reasonable and would be accepting of a derogation… albeit, it should never have been necessary as the Welsh Government should have been much quicker off the ball there.If we don't see anything by December or May, I can see Stadler's or Bi-mode 331's on the horizon for Northern. W&B will be screwed and the DfT will have no choice but to give them a derogation (God help them if the pauly moaner gets on one of their trains) and GWR will just have to take the hit and maybe mirror what Northern.
It's not particularly pleasant to refer to people as 'moaners' - however, in any case, most people are reasonable and would be accepting of a derogation… albeit, it should never have been necessary as the Welsh Government should have been much quicker off the ball there.
For Wales & Borders they are in chronic need of fleet going by some of the tweets you see (the reply from Arrive is that they are 'always looking' for fleet), so, the 769s running late has screwed them anyway.
To be fair, the Class 230 project started considerably before the 769 project. Indeed when Vivarail were having issues with delays and fires, the joke back then was that the 769 would be in service earlier!
And new trains can face delays too, I suspect the Stadler bi-mode will face delays of its own, they've got no UK experience themselves. And the Bombardier 710s for the Overground are delayed too.
That's generally how Government plans work! Estimates on the back of a fag packet, generally lacking in realism and… late.it took Welsh Government over 3 years to go for the Flex option and then only because DfT had set the ball rolling. They have a plan but a plan that is increasingly looking like it wont work in time. God knows what the plan woudl be if it hadn't been for Flex.
That's generally how Government plans work! Estimates on the back of a fag packet, generally lacking in realism and… late.
Of course, your mileage may vary
it took Welsh Government over 3 years to go for the Flex option and then only because DfT had set the ball rolling. They have a plan but a plan that is increasingly looking like it wont work in time. God knows what the plan woudl be if it hadn't been for Flex.
To be fair, the Class 230 project started considerably before the 769 project. Indeed when Vivarail were having issues with delays and fires, the joke back then was that the 769 would be in service earlier!
As far as I can gather, they have not yet turned a wheel, even inside the Brush works. Certainly not been seen outside the works yet. Any evidence to the contrary is welcomed!‘Trains riding extremely bumpy’
Has a set emerged from Brush & reached the test track? Not seen anything mentioned here.