Russia invades Ukraine

[dakta]

"Is it really that crazy to expect a fighter pilot to get rapidly up to speed with another type? "

Yeah!

Besides waggling sticks you've got locating the familiar dials, navigating the computer, learning the performance limits, weapons systems, the capabilities of the weapons you can carry, acquriing targets, how to operate the radar, knowing the language printed on the controls.. and it could go on for a while

It could be done with time but that is not available, i'd be thinking weeks for a rapid familiarisation programme IMHO

 

[DanNCL]

There might be some MiG-29s available from former Warsaw Pact countries but it all depends on the serviceability and whether they've been kept up to date.

Some MiG-29s are already moving to Ukraine from Poland to help out.

 

[dgl]

I wonder if Liz Truss's statement that she would be supportive of UK citizens who do want to go to Ukraine and "help out" could be a secret way of having our forces help out over there, claim they went there on their on their own accord and it's nothing to do with the government, "honestly".

 

[Ediswan]

Even if the runways were operational, the Ukrainian Air Force don't fly western types so there would be no hope of that plan working unless the west has got some spare Sukhoi's laying about!

The only overlap is L-39 trainers. The US could replace the current Ukrainian inventory several times over by commandeering the privately owned aircraft. I can't see how that would help though.

 

[squizzler]

"Is it really that crazy to expect a fighter pilot to get rapidly up to speed with another type? "

Yeah!

You're a fast jet pilot? I'm not.

That said, humble PC flight sim models the cockpit of planes accurately, their flight characteristics and weapons. If you are already an experienced jet fighter it does not seem beyond the realm of possibility that they get everything they need to get started from such sims.

I understand the RAF do most of their flight training with Tucano turboprops which look like hobbyists planes, then move to Hawk jet trainers. There is, as I said, much more to flying in terms of navigation, protocols, that air force's doctrine and all the rest beyond skill in throwing the kite all over the sky.

 

[dakta]

"You're a fast jet pilot? I'm not."

I never said I was and trust me if i was I would have said it - but my first flight sim was SU-27 flanker, then flanker2.0, then Lock-on, then DCS etc - almost all these are SU-27 based - I've actually very rarely ventured into american and western stuff I bet despite hundreds of sim-hours I could get something western up in the air but couldn't fire a weapon. The book I got with one is hundreds of pages with an index of missiles types, homing types, trajectories and specs etc so you can decide what you're going to use in what situation on the fly, you can't jus tthrow someone in a cockpit with a quick familiarisation and expect to be doing anything other than becoming a decoy target

Sims are not real life by a long shot but I think similar would apply - waggling a stick does not touch what is needed for air combat.

I actually agree in as much that sims are actually quite good these days - BUT you'd need time to train and I think you'd be talking weeks, low months not hours that Ukraine have.

 

[brad465]

I wonder how brexit fans will explain behaviour of Ukraine .

It formally asked to join the EU club .

Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Monday said he had signed an official request for Ukraine to join the European Union.

www.reuters.com

Almost everything Putin hoped to weaken has been strengthened, and almost everything he hoped to strengthen has been weakened. He's strengthened the EU, NATO and the unity and patriotism of Ukrainians, while he looks set to weaken his own standing politically, and potentially also will weaken every project he and his clique bankrolled.

 

[najaB]

Is it really that crazy to expect a fighter pilot to get rapidly up to speed with another type?

Yes. The last thing that someone needs to be doing in combat is figuring out what the buttons/switches do. 95% of training is committing actions to muscle memory.

 

[Howardh]

Almost everything Putin hoped to weaken has been strengthened, and almost everything he hoped to strengthen has been weakened. He's strengthened the EU, NATO and the unity and patriotism of Ukrainians, while he looks set to weaken his own standing politically, and potentially also will weaken every project he and his clique bankrolled.

Basically, if he didn't want Ukraine to join NATO, he's now forced their hand, they will have to join NATO in order to prevent another invasion down the line. So does that force Putin to completely invade and take over Ukraine; or is it just a strong negotiating point - "we'll retreat if you agree not to join NATO"

I'm just hoping that if this gets even more serious, his Generals start to disobay him.

 

[squizzler]

I wonder how brexit fans will explain behaviour of Ukraine .

It formally asked to join the EU club .

Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Monday said he had signed an official request for Ukraine to join the European Union.

www.reuters.com

I also wonder how certain - invariably brexit supporting - sections of press championing a "war on woke" have managed to handle the contradiction between supporting what must, by any rational analysis, be the "woke" side in this conflict against the monolithic, orthodox church conservative and very conformist dogma of Putin's Russia.

Mind you maybe they had a point, as the editorial of the Daily Telegraph is constantly banging on about how dangerous "woke" ideology is, in this case the Ukrainians must have it in spades as they have the ferocity to drive Putin's army to stalemate.

 

[GS250]

I would suggest Ukraine would be in a position that many Eastern European countries find themselves in as far as the EU goes. They are glad to receive the financial benefits that the majority of poorer performing economies obtain. However, they would in all likelihood be at odds with many of the social policies that the more liberal Western European countries expect from others.

Isn't potential EU membership what originally gave the Russian bear something of a prod in the first place?

 

[GWRtom]

I wonder whether there is the opportunity to provide fresh fighter jets to Ukrainian pilots? In the battle of Britain it was quite usual to get shot down one day, then get a fresh plane and rejoin battle after recovering. This is the advantage of the battles mostly being over the homeland rather than in enemy territory where you would more likely be taken prisoner and "the war for you is over".

The USA has huge boneyards full of surplus F16s and other fairly contemporary planes. Why can't these be supplied to, say, Poland, where the Ukrainian pilots could take a train to collect them and literally fly them straight into battle?

This is already being done Poland, Bulgaria and Slovakia are providing surplus Mig-29's & Su-25's that the Ukrainian Air Force is already familiar with, as per the EU statement last night.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/1498250002518392834
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1498029493033881601

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I wonder how brexit fans will explain behaviour of Ukraine .

It formally asked to join the EU club .

Johnson can send Rees-Mogg to Ukraine to explain the downside of joining the EU, I'm sure his views would prevail.

 

[nw1]

I also wonder how certain - invariably brexit supporting - sections of press championing a "war on woke" have managed to handle the contradiction between supporting what must, by any rational analysis, be the "woke" side in this conflict against the monolithic, orthodox church conservative and very conformist dogma of Putin's Russia.

Mind you maybe they had a point, as the editorial of the Daily Telegraph is constantly banging on about how dangerous "woke" ideology is, in this case the Ukrainians must have it in spades as they have the ferocity to drive Putin's army to stalemate.

There was that post further up this thread about some right-winger from the US rambling on about how awful "woke"ism is and how "woke" people would somehow be responsible for nuclear war. Yet Putin is probably the most anti-"woke" person that exists in this world today. If Putin was "woke" then there would be no war. That is absolutely certain.

I do think that a lot of western right-wing populists have a lot more in common with Putin in terms of social attitudes than they would like to admit.

 

[Tomp94]

I reckon it won't be long before a ceasefire is reached. Putin has pushed America (NATO) back. Putin has no intention of taking over all of Ukraine. Putin I should imagine, wants America out of eastern europe. And who can blame him, after their pathetic attempt of regime change in Syria, their calamitous exit from Afghanistan, their recent CIA initiated failed regime change in Kazakhstan. America is behaving like a has-been. The American empire is slowly dying. The Germans have got some important decisions coming up as does much of mainland europe...do they side with Russia, or do they be the U.S. poodle like Britain? If so, it could get chilly for the Germans. The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Americans and the American military industrial complex.
This latest physical war which is just a continuation of a proxy war that was last this bad in 2014, will soon be over and a financial war will ensue. A clue as to who the losers are going to be: Not the Russians.

Britain should rid itself of the current globalist rabble in Parliament and elect people who represent them, rather than choosing between the least worst all the time. We could then stop being the U.S poodle, be far more self sufficient, and would not be involved in any of these geo-political wars!

We could also do ourselves a huge favor and stop watching the mainstream media, however addicting their endless stoking of war and fear is to watch and listen to, on behalf of government!

 

[Scotrail314209]

I would suggest Ukraine would be in a position that many Eastern European countries find themselves in as far as the EU goes. They are glad to receive the financial benefits that the majority of poorer performing economies obtain. However, they would in all likelihood be at odds with many of the social policies that the more liberal Western European countries expect from others.

Isn't potential EU membership what originally gave the Russian bear something of a prod in the first place?

I believe it was the possibility of Ukraine being accepted into NATO that gave them a prod.

 

[najaB]

However, they would in all likelihood be at odds with many of the social policies that the more liberal Western European countries expect from others.

A decade or so ago I'd agree 100%. The pro-Western attitudes that are commonplace include more liberal values. As an example, the majority (56%) of people surveyed in 2017 agreed with equal rights for LGBT people. (Data in this Excel file found here: https://web.archive.org/web/2018011...what-we-do/ilga-riwi-global-attitudes-survey/)

I reckon it won't be long before a ceasefire is reached. Putin has pushed America (NATO) back. Putin has no intention of taking over all of Ukraine. Putin I should imagine, wants America out of eastern europe. And who can blame him, after their pathetic attempt of regime change in Syria, their calamitous exit from Afghanistan, their recent CIA initiated failed regime change in Kazakhstan. America is behaving like a has-been. The American empire is slowly dying. The Germans have got some important decisions coming up as does much of mainland europe...do they side with Russia, or do they be the U.S. poodle like Britain? If so, it could get chilly for the Germans. The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Americans and the American military industrial complex.
This latest physical war which is just a continuation of a proxy war that was last this bad in 2014, will soon be over and a financial war will ensue. A clue as to who the losers are going to be: Not the Russians.

Britain should rid itself of the current globalist rabble in Parliament and elect people who represent them, rather than choosing between the least worst all the time. We could then stop being the U.S poodle, be far more self sufficient, and would not be involved in any of these geo-political wars!

We could also do ourselves a huge favor and stop watching the mainstream media, however addicting their endless stoking of war and fear is to watch and listen to, on behalf of government!

Vladimir? Is that you?

 

[yorksrob]

A Russian news agency has accidentally (?) published an article celebrating a Russian victory and collapse of the Ukrainian state within an anticipated two days.

The article is in Russian and has been archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html

https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/status/1498310064117059585 is a twitter thread on this. Its easier to read from this page
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1498310064117059585
It starts:

The translation of this article ends:

It exposes the sort of self-indulgent victim complex the Putinist establishment enjoy wallowing in.

 

[Ediswan]

Besides waggling sticks you've got locating the familiar dials

In the case of the artificial horizon, it may initially look familiar, but Western and Soviet instruments operate differently, which could really spoil your day.

 

[class ep-09]

I reckon it won't be long before a ceasefire is reached. Putin has pushed America (NATO) back. Putin has no intention of taking over all of Ukraine. Putin I should imagine, wants America out of eastern europe. And who can blame him, after their pathetic attempt of regime change in Syria, their calamitous exit from Afghanistan, their recent CIA initiated failed regime change in Kazakhstan. America is behaving like a has-been. The American empire is slowly dying. The Germans have got some important decisions coming up as does much of mainland europe...do they side with Russia, or do they be the U.S. poodle like Britain? If so, it could get chilly for the Germans. The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Americans and the American military industrial complex.
This latest physical war which is just a continuation of a proxy war that was last this bad in 2014, will soon be over and a financial war will ensue. A clue as to who the losers are going to be: Not the Russians.

Britain should rid itself of the current globalist rabble in Parliament and elect people who represent them, rather than choosing between the least worst all the time. We could then stop being the U.S poodle, be far more self sufficient, and would not be involved in any of these geo-political wars!

We could also do ourselves a huge favor and stop watching the mainstream media, however addicting their endless stoking of war and fear is to watch and listen to, on behalf of government!

Do you think anyone here believes that BS?

 

[najaB]

In the case of the artificial horizon, it may initially look familiar, but Western and Soviet instruments operate differently, which could really spoil your day.

That's believed to be the cause of at least a couple of fatal passenger airline accidents (Crossair Flight 489, Aeroflot Flight 821) and possibly others.

 

[Tomp94]

Do you think anyone here believes that BS?

I'm not too bothered, but I'd be really interested to know which bits are BS.

Time to accept the American Empire is dying. The next will consist of China and probably Russia/india.
We should be preparing for that. i.e, be as self sufficient as possible. Rather than listen to donkeys like Liz Truss who wants British blood to be spilled for her own sick geopolitical war in which there are no winners.

 

[najaB]

I'm not too bothered, but I'd be really interested to know which bits are BS.

Time to accept the American Empire is dying. The next will consist of China and probably Russia/india.

The idea that Russia is going to be any more than a bit-player in the Chinese/EU era that we're headed into.

 

[Tomp94]

The idea that Russia is going to be any more than a bit-player in the Chinese/EU era that we're headed into.

I would argue they'll end up being far more than just a bit-player. They do have their hands on the gas taps which mainland Europe needs.

 

[yorksrob]

I would argue they'll end up being far more than just a bit-player. They do have their hands on the gas taps which mainland Europe needs.

The current episode will just prompt Europe to switch to something else even more quickly.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I reckon it won't be long before a ceasefire is reached. Putin has pushed America (NATO) back. Putin has no intention of taking over all of Ukraine. Putin I should imagine, wants America out of eastern europe. And who can blame him, after their pathetic attempt of regime change in Syria, their calamitous exit from Afghanistan, their recent CIA initiated failed regime change in Kazakhstan. America is behaving like a has-been. The American empire is slowly dying. The Germans have got some important decisions coming up as does much of mainland europe...do they side with Russia, or do they be the U.S. poodle like Britain? If so, it could get chilly for the Germans. The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Americans and the American military industrial complex.
This latest physical war which is just a continuation of a proxy war that was last this bad in 2014, will soon be over and a financial war will ensue. A clue as to who the losers are going to be: Not the Russians.

Indeed it will take at least a decade for the West to decouple itself from Russian gas let alone the other commodities that Russia provides across the globe. In fact for all of Europes rhetoric pipleines exporting into Europe are still operating at full capacity. Short term if they were shutdown most countries have a few weeks of storage but the European gas grid isn't designed to import via LNG at least the UK has that option as well as a dependable supply from Norway.
Joe Biden is desperate to avoid pushing oil price up any further as gas (petrol) prices are already at record levels in US and they don't like that so they will still permit Russia to export to limit price increases.

 

[the sniper]

I reckon it won't be long before a ceasefire is reached. Putin has pushed America (NATO) back. Putin has no intention of taking over all of Ukraine. Putin I should imagine, wants America out of eastern europe. And who can blame him, after their pathetic attempt of regime change in Syria, their calamitous exit from Afghanistan, their recent CIA initiated failed regime change in Kazakhstan. America is behaving like a has-been. The American empire is slowly dying. The Germans have got some important decisions coming up as does much of mainland europe...do they side with Russia, or do they be the U.S. poodle like Britain? If so, it could get chilly for the Germans. The longer this war goes on, the better it is for the Americans and the American military industrial complex.
This latest physical war which is just a continuation of a proxy war that was last this bad in 2014, will soon be over and a financial war will ensue. A clue as to who the losers are going to be: Not the Russians.

Britain should rid itself of the current globalist rabble in Parliament and elect people who represent them, rather than choosing between the least worst all the time. We could then stop being the U.S poodle, be far more self sufficient, and would not be involved in any of these geo-political wars!

We could also do ourselves a huge favor and stop watching the mainstream media, however addicting their endless stoking of war and fear is to watch and listen to, on behalf of government!

Been binging on RT while it's still on tele here...?

 

[najaB]

They do have their hands on the gas taps which mainland Europe needs.

Putin's action in Ukraine has done more for alternative energy than Greta Thunberg.

 

[Tomp94]

The current episode will just prompt Europe to switch to something else even more quickly.

That's going to be very difficult when people realise the cost of the green / net zero malarky! Totally unaffordable to the average person.

Been binging on RT while it's still on tele here...?

I haven't watched a single minute of RT! Although, thank goodness there is still an alternative viewpoint available for the time being, should I choose to watch it! (P.S I won't!)

Putin's action in Ukraine has done more for alternative energy than Greta Thunberg.

Or the endless pro Ukraine propaganda on TV/Radio/Newspapers/Social Media

 

[dakta]

In the case of the artificial horizon, it may initially look familiar, but Western and Soviet instruments operate differently, which could really spoil your day.

Totally agreed,

there is room for the argument that flight fundamentals are so similar that you could reasonably quickly control an aircraft of a different type with quick familiarisation - but modern radar, navigation and weapon control systems in the mix you can safely forget it

and it's a shame really because if it were viable i'd be all for it