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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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Chuggington21

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18 Dec 2016
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I think Hitachi are unsure where the door fault is coming from. They thought they fixed it, sane thing happened, they switched out the units and the same thing happened. could be the camber at croy station.
Once they sort out the issues that are going to be good trains. They are really good to drive
 
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cairntoul

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Hmmmmm, they may be nice to drive, but I commute on the line every day almost end to end and have done so for about ten years.

The seats are the most uncomfortable when compared with those on the 170s, 365s, 380s and even refurbished 180s.

The luggage rack design is poor. A bar has been added across the waist height shelf, presumably to prevent items falling out. What this does in practice is severely restricted its use. In 10 years I never saw any large item fall out of a 170 rack.

Announcements. Sheesh. Passengers are now inundated with very loud announcements. At least 5 - sometimes more - before departures and at each intermediate station - "We are now approaching... Remember your luggage... Mind the gap... This is the train for... Calling at... If you see anything suspicious call...". The guard and the catering service also chip in at the beginning and during the journey. So if you liked a snooze then you're out of luck or to even listen to something will probably now give you tinnitus. I don't believe that for the majority of passengers this number of announcements is necessary or useful.
 

Mingulay

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Hmmmmm, they may be nice to drive, but I commute on the line every day almost end to end and have done so for about ten years.

The seats are the most uncomfortable when compared with those on the 170s, 365s, 380s and even refurbished 180s.

The luggage rack design is poor. A bar has been added across the waist height shelf, presumably to prevent items falling out. What this does in practice is severely restricted its use. In 10 years I never saw any large item fall out of a 170 rack.

Announcements. Sheesh. Passengers are now inundated with very loud announcements. At least 5 - sometimes more - before departures and at each intermediate station - "We are now approaching... Remember your luggage... Mind the gap... This is the train for... Calling at... If you see anything suspicious call...". The guard and the catering service also chip in at the beginning and during the journey. So if you liked a snooze then you're out of luck or to even listen to something will probably now give you tinnitus. I don't believe that for the majority of passengers this number of announcements is necessary or useful.

I tend to agree. I think the management mantra is the more you inform passengers the better the service. But to repeat the same message and the bleedin obvious only grates and diluted the message when it’s just a loop . Easy fix tho I guess

The one announcement they should make is. “ all you slobs who are intending to leave your rubbish on the table. Please use the bin instead “. Just boarded my train this am. Empty pint of milk and empty can of red bull on table. Quite a breakfast. Bin within reach.

We got new trains. Glitches or not we should as passengers keep then rubbish free. Then scotrail have no excuse not to keep them properly clean. Only one thing worse than an uncomfortable seat. Is a dirty seat.
 

Stopper

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11 Nov 2017
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The 170 seats are very comfortable but in 10 years commuting I got a seat on a 170 (single or double) maybe once a week, so I’m just glad to get a seat on a 385 (which I don’t most of the time still).
 

Mulson

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8:27 from Polmont was cancelled due to a fault again this morning. That is 2 consecutive days and one last week.

I am not posting this to be negative, merely stating the facts, I also can't guarantee this were all worked or due to be worked by 385's but that is the train that has been coming for the past month or so in place of a 380.

If it is the door issue, hope its resolved before the timetable change as from Polmont, I think a 385 will be (almost) all I can get, where as at the moment I have the safety net of a 170 from Dunblane/Alloa a few mins later.
 

Stopper

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8:27 from Polmont was cancelled due to a fault again this morning. That is 2 consecutive days and one last week.

I am not posting this to be negative, merely stating the facts, I also can't guarantee this were all worked or due to be worked by 385's but that is the train that has been coming for the past month or so in place of a 380.

If it is the door issue, hope its resolved before the timetable change as from Polmont, I think a 385 will be (almost) all I can get, where as at the moment I have the safety net of a 170 from Dunblane/Alloa a few mins later.

YES the entire E-G will only be served by 385s as only the Edinburgh-Dunblane services won’t be, they will be served by 365s. Cumbernauld and Alloa trains will still be 385s. I appreciate there will he problems with new trains but there has been quite a lot of faults with only 4 or 5 diagrams (I believe) running per day. In less than a month almost the entire E-G/SDA/Cumbernauld network will be using 385s which is certainly worrying.
 

kilonewton

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Scotland no more
Announcements. Sheesh. Passengers are now inundated with very loud announcements. At least 5 - sometimes more - before departures and at each intermediate station - "We are now approaching... Remember your luggage... Mind the gap... This is the train for... Calling at... If you see anything suspicious call...". The guard and the catering service also chip in at the beginning and during the journey. So if you liked a snooze then you're out of luck or to even listen to something will probably now give you tinnitus. I don't believe that for the majority of passengers this number of announcements is necessary or useful.
I’m on a 385 twice a day most weekdays, can’t say I’ve been bothered by the announcements, but that may be due to the entertaining podcasts I’m listening to and concentrating on the silly games I’m playing on my phone.
If it bothers you that much, find something to tune them out with.
 

43096

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23 Nov 2015
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Hmmmmm, they may be nice to drive, but I commute on the line every day almost end to end and have done so for about ten years.

The seats are the most uncomfortable when compared with those on the 170s, 365s, 380s and even refurbished 180s.

The luggage rack design is poor. A bar has been added across the waist height shelf, presumably to prevent items falling out. What this does in practice is severely restricted its use. In 10 years I never saw any large item fall out of a 170 rack.

Announcements. Sheesh. Passengers are now inundated with very loud announcements. At least 5 - sometimes more - before departures and at each intermediate station - "We are now approaching... Remember your luggage... Mind the gap... This is the train for... Calling at... If you see anything suspicious call...". The guard and the catering service also chip in at the beginning and during the journey. So if you liked a snooze then you're out of luck or to even listen to something will probably now give you tinnitus. I don't believe that for the majority of passengers this number of announcements is necessary or useful.
Had my first run on one of these yesterday, and as an interesting comparison had 385s out and 365s back.

My observations would be:
Seats: the thicker seat base cushions make a huge difference compared to the Fainsa seats in the 387s and 700s. ScotRail's use of a high quality moquette (rather than the low quality stuff GTR and GWR use) also makes a difference. Definite improvement over other recent new trains.
Ride: average. Noticeably rougher and "busier" than the 365.
Windows: there is an awful lot of plastic panelling internally. There are areas where there is one small and one large window and a huge amount of bare wall, where there should have been two large windows fitted. Seat/window alignment is also poor. Not strictly window related, but there are also seem to be big equipment cabinets in the passenger accommodation which waste space and are much more obtrusive than other stock - almost felt like you could have put a normal/small toilet in place of some of them.

Overall, they are OK. A fairly average new train. They certainly don't have the "wow" factor that I noticed when I first got on a 380. As a direct comparison, the 380 is a far superior train.
 
Joined
11 Jun 2018
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I had a look at this tonight - the "g" is perfectly formed with 2 more spare lines of LEDs below it. Maybe you saw a faulty one.
Thanks for checking and for the information - good to know. As you say, I must have seen a faulty one, although that would in itself be disappointing given the age of the unit. It definitely did say "q" instead of "g" though, so something is/was up.
 

Journeyman

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16 Apr 2014
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6,295
Hmmmmm, they may be nice to drive, but I commute on the line every day almost end to end and have done so for about ten years.

The seats are the most uncomfortable when compared with those on the 170s, 365s, 380s and even refurbished 180s.

Agree, they're pretty nasty to sit on for any length of time at all, and I find the 385 seat rather unpleasant on my half-hour trips each day. The 365 isn't the most luxurious or high-specced EMU in the world, and some aspects of the design seem quite dated, but the seat is much nicer to sit in, and considerably softer.

Announcements. Sheesh. Passengers are now inundated with very loud announcements. At least 5 - sometimes more - before departures and at each intermediate station - "We are now approaching... Remember your luggage... Mind the gap... This is the train for... Calling at... If you see anything suspicious call...". The guard and the catering service also chip in at the beginning and during the journey. So if you liked a snooze then you're out of luck or to even listen to something will probably now give you tinnitus. I don't believe that for the majority of passengers this number of announcements is necessary or useful.

Yup, the automated announcements are extremely loud and far too intrusive, and there's far too many of them. The amount of times they repeat seems to vary enormously - on one journey home recently they repeated more or less constantly throughout my whole journey, which I found absolutely nerve-shredding. On top of that, the conductor decided to make extra announcements saying the same things all over again! Completely unnecessary and really annoying.
 

GrimShady

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13 Dec 2016
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1,740
My 385 review......

The Good

  • Rapid acceleration.
  • Clean (for now).
  • First has its own doors.
  • Toilet being close to First & end of Standard.
  • Gangway ends.

The Bad
  • THE SEATS! Very, very, very poor, worst thing I've ever sat on tbh. Standard & First share the same seat design except one has a different cloth, not good enough ScotRail! First seats are no bigger than standard at all, inferior to the 170.
  • Ride quality was very poor. The unit bounced its way along the E&G, inferior to all traction types on the E&G.
  • Vibrations under acceleration worse than a DMU!
  • Windows blinds, almost pointless being composed of a fine mesh that's about as much use as a chocolate fire guard!
  • The amount of automated announcements.
  • Very harsh lighting.

Can't say I'm impressed at all and definitely not much, or any of an upgrade from the 170.

They should have had a look at first on the refitted 185s to see how its done.
 
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Chuggington21

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18 Dec 2016
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190
I can't get how people are saying the ride quality is poor. I've driven every tractio recently expect 314 and 385 is by far the smoothest. It also doesn't accelerate any quicker than the 380 imo
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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10,595
Took one home this evening , 1815 from Edinburgh . As always go for front coach as it usually is quieter . Lighting is indeed too harsh , someone was moaning about it . The ride quality kinda reminds of pendo . Are the 380s still on the E and G?
 

380101

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18 Feb 2015
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998
I can't get how people are saying the ride quality is poor. I've driven every tractio recently expect 314 and 385 is by far the smoothest. It also doesn't accelerate any quicker than the 380 imo

A 7 car 385 is always going to be slower than a 7 car 380 accelerating as Hitatchi for some crazy reason decided that in order to save 1500kg in weight, they only have 3 powered bogies on the 385/0 (3 car) compared to 4 powered bogies on the 380/0 (3 car).

All I can say is I'm glad we aint getting them to drive in Ayrshire anytime soon!
 

route101

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A 7 car 385 is always going to be slower than a 7 car 380 accelerating as Hitatchi for some crazy reason decided that in order to save 1500kg in weight, they only have 3 powered bogies on the 385/0 (3 car) compared to 4 powered bogies on the 380/0 (3 car).

All I can say is I'm glad we aint getting them to drive in Ayrshire anytime soon!
Wonder if any Ayyshire / Inverclyde services will get them?
 

Chuggington21

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A 7 car 385 is always going to be slower than a 7 car 380 accelerating as Hitatchi for some crazy reason decided that in order to save 1500kg in weight, they only have 3 powered bogies on the 385/0 (3 car) compared to 4 powered bogies on the 380/0 (3 car).

All I can say is I'm glad we aint getting them to drive in Ayrshire anytime soon!
Nothing to do with weight £££££
 

380101

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Wonder if any Ayyshire / Inverclyde services will get them?

No 385s for any Ayrshire services anytime soon and I dont think they'll make it to Inverclyde, but all the drivers that sign Gourock and Weymss Bay will sign 385s, so theoretically they could appear as they are obviously cleared for down there.
 

380101

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Nothing to do with weight £££££

that aswell :lol: although the official Hitatchi reason in a rail engineering mag was thst it was to save weight! Surprised they've not reduced the length of the carpet pile to save money in them! Most drivers I've spoken to in Central that have done the training on them don't like them. One of the big complaints is the shape of the power brake controller. They should have went with the same joystick style as we have in the 380.
 

route101

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No 385s for any Ayrshire services anytime soon and I dont think they'll make it to Inverclyde, but all the drivers that sign Gourock and Weymss Bay will sign 385s, so theoretically they could appear as they are obviously cleared for down there.

Thats where they were first tested i think
 

GrimShady

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I can't get how people are saying the ride quality is poor. I've driven every tractio recently expect 314 and 385 is by far the smoothest. It also doesn't accelerate any quicker than the 380 imo

I was shocked by how poor it was. I can't understand where all the vibrations were coming from. Turbostar jusy glides along in comparison.

Using the same seats in both classes almost makes 2+1 in First utterly pointless. Loads of wasted space in the aisle.

Quite a let down I must say.
 
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Chrism20

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I was shocked by how poor it was. I can't understand where all the vibrations were coming from. Turbostar jusy glides along in comparison.

Using the same seats in both classes almost makes 2+1 in First utterly pointless. Loads of wasted space in the aisle.

Quite a let down I must say.

I mentioned a while back after my first ride in one that I felt there were a couple of rough patches. IIRC one was just after Falkirk westbound and the other around Lenzie (Cadder?) which someone replied saying the points were down to be replaced soon. Have been on a few now and haven't noticed any other rough parts or excessive vibrations.

Agree re the first class seats. Had they spaced the bank of two out a bit more it wouldn't be so bad. I'm a bit weird when it comes to seats so actually don't mind them but do realise I am in the minority.
 

GrimShady

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I mentioned a while back after my first ride in one that I felt there were a couple of rough patches. IIRC one was just after Falkirk westbound and the other around Lenzie (Cadder?) which someone replied saying the points were down to be replaced soon. Have been on a few now and haven't noticed any other rough parts or excessive vibrations.

Agree re the first class seats. Had they spaced the bank of two out a bit more it wouldn't be so bad. I'm a bit weird when it comes to seats so actually don't mind them but do realise I am in the minority.

West of Falkirk all the way to Queen Street was the worst part. It may have been the unit I was on however. The vibrations were similar to when a 170 first starts it's engines.

The seats also seem very close up against the side of the unit too. Very poor spacing.

I really wanted to like these units.:(
 
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GrimShady

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When the route finally goes over to dual 385/1s I assume they'll the marshalled with First at either end of the train?
 

alangla

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I mentioned a while back after my first ride in one that I felt there were a couple of rough patches. IIRC one was just after Falkirk westbound and the other around Lenzie (Cadder?) which someone replied saying the points were down to be replaced soon.
Pretty sure I remember a bump either there or at Gartshore when I commuted on Turbostars. In terms of cleanliness, ScotRail do generally put cleaners on after every journey on the E&G during the day, but from memory, some of the turnarounds are ridiculously short, even when everything is running to time & especially in the peaks. It doesn’t help that the E&G journey times are long enough to attract the bowl-of-cereal-on-the-train brigade though.
 

InOban

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The Scotrail Twitter has pictures of travelling cleaners, but whether all trains have them, don't know. They call them the Pit Stop teams.
 

Mingulay

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I was shocked by how poor it was. I can't understand where all the vibrations were coming from. Turbostar jusy glides along in comparison.

Using the same seats in both classes almost makes 2+1 in First utterly pointless. Loads of wasted space in the aisle.

Quite a let down I must say.

Bit depressing that these trains are getting at best a Luke warm reception. Alex Hynes at a presentation to Edinburgh chamber of commerce described them a a European style level of comfort and refinement. . Spin ???

As this is the Scotrail flagship service they seem to have missed the mark given initial feedback. Or perhaps the general traveling public are content and rail buffs on here are more critical

I have yet to board one so I'm in the dark
 

alangla

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Again, going back to when I travelled on the E&G regularly, a seat, it actually turning up on time and not choking to death on particulates & Carbon Monoxide while inevitably stopped in Cowlairs Tunnel were the main priorities. With any luck, slashing the number of diesel trains going up Cowlairs & longer, faster trains should deliver most of that
 

GrimShady

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Bit depressing that these trains are getting at best a Luke warm reception. Alex Hynes at a presentation to Edinburgh chamber of commerce described them a a European style level of comfort and refinement. . Spin ???

As this is the Scotrail flagship service they seem to have missed the mark given initial feedback. Or perhaps the general traveling public are content and rail buffs on here are more critical

I have yet to board one so I'm in the dark

Definitely spin, I heard a number of people talking about how crap the seats were, staff weren't too enthusiastic either.

We Rail buffs will be more critical as we know what's available elsewhere and what things should be like ie the 185.
 

mde

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THE SEATS! Very, very, very poor, worst thing I've ever sat on tbh. Standard & First share the same seat design except one has a different cloth, not good enough ScotRail! First seats are no bigger than standard at all, inferior to the 170.
That's not quite true. The seats in First have a much different cushion to the ironing boards in standard.

I would prefer the Chapman's off the 170, but, I doubt Transcal have a version of that which is suitable (they do have several new designs though). As with everything, price was perhaps a deciding factor.

The ironing boards are, IMO, not the most comfortable things to travel on - even the E3000's on the 380 are more comfortable, but, no doubt some people think the reverse - I know some actually like the shape of those seats better as it forces a different postural position, absurd as it sounds.
 
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