Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Japan0913]

Is the suggestion that the 385s themselves could potentially be converted to dual electric/battery operation, or are Hitachi more likely to be pitching for a contract to build new trains the next time an order is being made?

Hitachi plans to run ScotRail Class 385 EMUs beyond the wires
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2019...run-scotrail-class-385-emus-beyond-the-wires/

Hitachi are in discussions with the Scottish Government to run a Class 385 variant with underfloor batteries that could either be charged whilst under the wires or whilst stationary at the end of the route.

At a recent presentation given to the IMechE Railway Division in Glasgow, a Hitachi representative advised that it would be relatively straightforward to fit batteries under a Class 385 to enable it to travel for 20 miles beyond the wires under battery power. If required, sufficient batteries could be fitted to extend this range to 60 miles, although this would be a much more complex modification.

This initiative would build on the experience that Hitachi has gained in Japan from its DENCHA trains which were introduced in 2016. These two-car EMUs also operate both on battery power and under the wires. On non-electrified lines they can run for about 25 miles without recharging.

Hitachi’s proposal to operate battery trains in Scotland is at an early stage. However, with their use being recommended by the rail decarbonisation task force and the Scottish Government about to pass new climate change legislation, it may not be long before battery trains are operating in Scotland.

Plans to introduce battery powered trains in Scotland
https : //www.scotsman.com/news/plans-to-introduce-battery-powered-trains-in-scotland-1-4894957

Scottish passengers would be among the first in the world to ride on battery-powered trains under plans unveiled by Japanese firm Hitachi.

The company wants to add batteries to the new electric trains it is building for ScotRail which are being introduced across the Central Belt.

It would extend the range of the Class 385 trains on to non-electrified sections of track.

That could bring the newer trains with their improved comfort to lines currently served by older and more polluting diesel trains.

Hitachi said the trains could run up to 60 miles on batteries.

It said recharging would take ten to 15 minutes.

That would mean the trains could run beyond Dunblane – the northern extent of ScotRail’s electrified network – as far as Perth and Dundee.

Hitachi has suggested other routes they could be used on including from Glasgow to East Kilbride and Kilmarnock, and on a Glasgow northern suburban line to Anniesland via Maryhill.

ScotRail has ordered 70 of the Class 385 trains, which will become its largest fleet.

Nearly half of them are in passenger service operating on routes such as the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line, and to Dunblane and Alloa.

Hitachi has been developing the technology for 15 years and built the world’s only passenger train running on batteries, in southern Japan.

The Dencha – dual energy charge train – has been operating since 2016.

A Hitachi spokesman told The Scotsman: “There are various options for the Class 385s, including installing batteries underneath.

“It would provide greater flexibility for the operator and save a huge amount in electrification costs.

“It would make ScotRail the first alternatively-fuelled passenger train operator in the UK.”

The plan follows Vivarail showcasing a converted London Underground train on the heritage Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway last October. Passengers were offered free trips on the five-mile line over several days. A short-lived battery train also ran on the Deeside line east of Aberdeen 60 years ago using a railcar known as Sputnik.

ScotRail said the Hitachi plan was “at a very early stage”.

Not only in Scotland, it is valid for non-electrified routes of the world.(Relatively medium-range route)

 

[OmniCity999]

This sort of technology would be a suitable solution for Edinburgh to Fife services as I understand the Forth Bridge would prove difficult to electrify due to height etc

Wire up the Fife circle and Dalmeny to Haymarket and run pan down on battery power over the bridge. The batteries would recharge once they crossed the bridge.

 

[deltic08]

Only the three cantilevers would need to be wire free. The two elevated sections each end of the bridge to the stone arches could be wired as pan up/pan down sections.

This seems an ideal solution. Another batch of 385s but bimode this time. In fact depending on the range on battery, they could be introduced now as electrification proceeds around the Fife circle and to Dundee and Perth.

 

[SC318250]

Not sure what problem is but 67004 and 385030 only got as far as Tyne Yard last night

 

[youngac]

Not sure what problem is but 67004 and 385030 only got as far as Tyne Yard last night

Did it return to Newton Aycliffe or is it still there?

 

[SC318250]

Believe it is still in Tyne Yard

 

[800001]

Not sure what problem is but 67004 and 385030 only got as far as Tyne Yard last night

Think was a failed container train near Berwick blocking line.
5X09 held at Tyne, but driver then ran out of hours and no other driver available.

 

[86247]

I'm going to Scotland in April or may to get some 385s where would be the best place to get them Glasgow QS or Edinburgh as I've not seen any yet it's a long time since I've been up there

 

[Kite159]

I'm going to Scotland in April or may to get some 385s where would be the best place to get them Glasgow QS or Edinburgh as I've not seen any yet it's a long time since I've been up there

For haulage or sight?

Edinburgh will get you the 8 sets working Edinburgh - Queen Street via Falkirk High, plus the ones working Edinburgh - Queen Street via Cumbernauld & Edinburgh - Stirlings. IIRC there is normally one or two out on North Berwick services.

The only extras you will get at Queen Street are the ones which work towards Alloa/Stirling. Glasgow Central will probably have some floating around on driver training or by May maybe some more in service.

 

[86247]

it would be mostly for sight plus I still need plenty of stuff from Scotland

 

[WGWarburton]

0629 out of Dunblane this morning is a 3-car set (385045). Another first.

Cheers,
W.

 

[scosutsut]

IIRC there is normally one or two out on North Berwick services.

Pretty much all are 385 now. Just the odd runs that start or finish beyond Haymarket tend to be otherwise.

 

[delt1c]

Only the three cantilevers would need to be wire free. The two elevated sections each end of the bridge to the stone arches could be wired as pan up/pan down sections.

This seems an ideal solution. Another batch of 385s but bimode this time. In fact depending on the range on battery, they could be introduced now as electrification proceeds around the Fife circle and to Dundee and Perth.

Seems a great solution as Electrification could be extended from Dunblane to Dundee and Fife to Dundee , therefore almost eliminating diesels in this area with an ultimate goal to Aberdeen. From Edinburgh this would leave the Waverly to be electrified and Waverly could become 100% electric, a far call for when Edinburgh was called "Auld Reekie"

 

[92002]

Pretty much all are 385 now. Just the odd runs that start or finish beyond Haymarket tend to be otherwise.

Probably easier to camp at Haymarket, rather than Waverley. Since they all use platforms 3 and 4. In Waverley the platforms are more random anywhere on the station. You also will get the 2 trains an hour from Dunblane and Glasgow via Shotts.

Once seen at Haymarket the North Berwick and Dunbar can be viewed at Waverley.

Queen Street in Glasgow will see the same Edinburgh services of 6 an hour. With the Stirling, Alloa and odd Dunblane added.

By May more 385s are expected at Glasgow Central to Shotts, Lanark, Gourock and Cathcart circle.

 

[hexagon789]

Glasgow via Shotts.

Are they 385s now?

 

[92002]

Not yet, they start with the timetable change in May. Staff training has yet to start on the line, but continues on other lines.

Power on and tested via Shotts but yet to see a 385.

 

[InOban]

Seems to be another delivery tonight. Presumably it can collect the set which is AFAIK still at Tyne yard after the aborted delivery earlier this week.

 

[youngac]

By May more 385s are expected at Glasgow Central to Shotts, Lanark, Gourock and Cathcart circle.

Didn't think they were actually going to be running Gourock services.

 

[hexagon789]

Didn't think they were actually going to be running Gourock services.

Neither did I, I thought they were going to replace the 314s and also the 380 diagrams on the Cathcart Circle plus 380s on North Berwick/Dunbar with the effect that Inverclyde could then go over to all 380s.

 

[scotraildriver]

There are spare paths to Gourock during the day to do training runs. No room on the circle.

 

[gsnedders]

There are spare paths to Gourock during the day to do training runs. No room on the circle.

Do all the Circle drivers sign Gourock as well? Mildly surprised to hear there's the space on the section to Paisley during the day!

 

[385001]

First time on a 385 and I’m quite impressed.

Pros

They’re fast! Just got the 1830 from
Queen Street and it took less than 10 minutes to get to Croy! Also pleasantly surprised by the short time it took to get up the Cowlairs tunnel! Also earlier at Haymarket we gave an LNER HST a head start and passed it just after Murrayfield Stadium. Looking forward to when Scotrail is able to cut the journey times.

They’re so quiet!

They’re clean.

Lighting good during daytime and not too bright once the sun has gone down.

Cons

Seats not a big issue for me but the airline seats don’t seem to be aligned with windows. I normally prefer airline seats but thankfully I was on a couple of quiet services so I got a table of 4 to myself each time.

The usual re announcements. Does the train manager need to make the same announcement as the auto announcement that follows?

 

[snookertam]

Do all the Circle drivers sign Gourock as well? Mildly surprised to hear there's the space on the section to Paisley during the day!

Yes Gourock drivers sign Cathcart/Neilston/Newton routes. If the 385s are not going to be working Inverclydes then the only reason for having the Gourock drivers learning them would be to work circles. But given that the units are clearly able to work the route then I can see no reason why we wont see 385s out there on occasion if required.

 

[86247]

thanks for the replys looks like Haymarket would be the better option I looked on rail rover guide a central Scotland rover looks good value at 49 quid for 3 days

 

[Mingulay]

First time on a 385 and I’m quite impressed.

Pros

They’re fast! Just got the 1830 from
Queen Street and it took less than 10 minutes to get to Croy! Also pleasantly surprised by the short time it took to get up the Cowlairs tunnel! Also earlier at Haymarket we gave an LNER HST a head start and passed it just after Murrayfield Stadium. Looking forward to when Scotrail is able to cut the journey times.

They’re so quiet!

They’re clean.

Lighting good during daytime and not too bright once the sun has gone down.

Cons

Seats not a big issue for me but the airline seats don’t seem to be aligned with windows. I normally prefer airline seats but thankfully I was on a couple of quiet services so I got a table of 4 to myself each time.

The usual re announcements. Does the train manager need to make the same announcement as the auto announcement that follows?

I think that's my views as well . I like them.

Other issues.

They are only as clean as passengers leave them and Scotrail clean them and I have little faith there is any real commitment to challenge littering on trains and good cleaning by Abellio . The bins are very small and they could have more so a bin is in reach from most seats. If they have so many announcements. Take your litter should be one in place of mind the gap .

A guard I spoke to felt the door control panel door is too high and swings out into the interior at face level. More a staff issue I think.

Sometimes door takes longer to open than if the guard had the duty?

 

[youngac]

Looks like tonight's delivery from Newton Aycliffe has went ahead. Unsure if it will pick up 385030 at Tyne S.S. on its journey north.

 

[385001]

They are only as clean as passengers leave them and Scotrail clean them and I have little faith there is any real commitment to challenge littering on trains and good cleaning by Abellio.

There was a member of staff collecting rubbish on my train to Glasgow this morning.

And the 1830 I got back from Glasgow was really clean despite it just having completed a peak journey from Edinburgh.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Looks like tonight's delivery from Newton Aycliffe has went ahead. Unsure if it will pick up 385030 at Tyne S.S. on its journey north.

385035 was the one to leave tonight and as far as I am aware the plan is to collect 385030 on route.

 

[route101]

Yes Gourock drivers sign Cathcart/Neilston/Newton routes. If the 385s are not going to be working Inverclydes then the only reason for having the Gourock drivers learning them would be to work circles. But given that the units are clearly able to work the route then I can see no reason why we wont see 385s out there on occasion if required.

Will be a chance of seeing them on Gourocks .Maybe not intially.

Are the Cathcart and Newtons just going to be peaks??

 

[SC318250]

There are ecs moves from Edinburgh to Shields Depot, Glasgow QS High Level to Shields Depot via Cumbernauld DRS and Edinburgh to Corkerhill Depot tomorrow evening.
Down as 385, but not sure if this will be the Class 380 units that have been operating from Queen Street?