Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Altnabreac]

I wouldn't be so sure of that one sounds like they be wanting some those to increase capacity on other routes, and we don't actually know how big this HST fleet will be and how many services it will cover. Is it actually going to cover all services to Inverness and Aberdeen from Glasgow/Edinburgh etc, or is just going to cover the busiest services with 170 still covering some services?

We know the Intercity Services covered by the upgraded stock as they are set out in Appendix 4 of the ITT.

There are 82 daily services:
14 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
12 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
16 Aberdeen - Glasgow
17 Glasgow - Aberdeen
8 Inverness - Edinburgh
6 Edinburgh - Inverness
4 Inverness - Glasgow
5 Glasgow - Inverness

What I'm not sure of is how many diagrams this translates to.

 

[khib70]

Why is the use of life expired trains excellent news? How long before the whinging Scots complain about being fobbed off with clapped out 40 year old stock, while their newer trains head south.

If you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion except snide racist remarks, don't bother.

It wouldn't be "whinging" to suggest that Scottish inter-city services deserve something better than tarted-up but clapped-out stock which has been run into the ground in England. We need something better than the outer suburban units (excellent as they are in their proper role) being used for these routes, that's for sure - but something originating in the current century would be preferable.

Otherwise, Abellio's plans seem reasonable enough. But it would be churlish not to recognise that First (not my favourite organisation by a long way) have done an excellent job with the franchise over the last ten years, and I'm a little surprised they've lost it. Hopefully, the rail-friendly position of the Scottish Government will allow a positive and progressive partnership and continued growth and good health for rail in Scotland

 

[Altnabreac]

Not sure if the Scotrail Customer Care Centre at Fort William is in fact regarded as in house ? Can anyone confirm?

The ITT doesn't force the bidders to use Fort Bill.

It does however require them to use staff with an excellent knowledge of Scottish geography who are bilingual in English and Gaelic. Unless they are planning on offshoring to Nova Scotia I'd say the new franchisee will probably be using Fort William.

See p74 of the ITT for details.

 

[ainsworth74]

Who is whinging? Elaborate please.

I'm not sure. I can't hear anything over the sound of the North of England whinging about the latest perceived slight from London

 

[david_VI]

Totally selfish but if it's Abellio and you currently work for Abellio is it likely you'll get free travel up there and on the sleeper?

 

[D6975]

Regarding how many sets are required, IS services at the moment appear to be 7 diagrams (Perth - IS almost has an hourly service already - there are 10 services 8-8, one the KX HST), so perhaps 8 sets in service for that. (edit - 9 if they're going to replace the KX)
Glas-AB is hourly with what looks to be 6 diagrams
ED-AB looks like 7 diagrams, because quite a few run through to Inverurie.
It's quite difficult to nail them down because of the swapping and the through IS via AB services. So it looks like 21 ish for the main routes, plus whatever IS-AB needs if they do that route too. Who knows, IS-AB may become IS-ED via AB, giving a regular through service from IS to Dundee.

this is based on current frequencies and timings.

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm also surprised at the new Commercial offering, such as a standard class fare between any two Scottish cities starting at £5. Surely this will cause price anomalies or should this really be read as an Advance product?

As the announcement states "starting at £5", I feel quite confident that these will be advance fares.

 

[Clip]

If you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion except snide racist remarks, don't bother.

I wasnt aware that being Scottish was its own race now. Amazing. That passed me by. Un less you are being over emotional about what that poster wrote. Which you probably are.

 

[Altnabreac]

If you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion except snide racist remarks, don't bother.

It wouldn't be "whinging" to suggest that Scottish inter-city services deserve something better than tarted-up but clapped-out stock which has been run into the ground in England. We need something better than the outer suburban units (excellent as they are in their proper role) being used for these routes, that's for sure - but something originating in the current century would be preferable.

Otherwise, Abellio's plans seem reasonable enough. But it would be churlish not to recognise that First (not my favourite organisation by a long way) have done an excellent job with the franchise over the last ten years, and I'm a little surprised they've lost it. Hopefully, the rail-friendly position of the Scottish Government will allow a positive and progressive partnership and continued growth and good health for rail in Scotland

I suspect Abellio are better informed about the public's requirements than people moaning on here.

The Intercity stock requirement has come from Feedback from user groups, Hitrans, Nestrans and others that the 170s are inferior to the East Coast HST provision. Anecdotally users from Aberdeen and Inverness prefer to use EC services rather than Scotrail and this is what TS want to avoid.

Given HSTs are the stock that have caused this ITT requirement it makes sense that upgraded HSTs would be a sensible option to deliver the required service level.

 

[ainsworth74]

Regarding how many sets are required, IS services at the moment appear to be 7 diagrams (Perth - IS almost has an hourly service already - there are 10 services 8-8, one the KX HST), so perhaps 8 sets in service for that. (edit - 9 if they're going to replace the KX)
Glas-AB is hourly with what looks to be 6 diagrams
ED-AB looks like 7 diagrams, because quite a few run through to Inverurie.
It's quite difficult to nail them down because of the swapping and the through IS via AB services. So it looks like 21 ish for the main routes, plus whatever IS-AB needs if they do that route too. Who knows, IS-AB may become IS-ED via AB, giving a regular through service from IS to Dundee.

Forgive me but for the avoidance of doubt is 'IS' Inverness? Those abbreviations you've used I've not seen elsewhere before (though AB and ED are fairly self-explanatory ).

 

[HSTEd]

21 diagrams+?

What is that, like up to 35 units? (Most trains operate as twin units right?)

That could be the bulk of the 156 fleet coming south if Scotrail deigns to release them.

 

[khib70]

I wasnt aware that being Scottish was its own race now. Amazing. That passed me by. Un less you are being over emotional about what that poster wrote. Which you probably are.

Your first sentence answers itself. I suspect you know perfectly well that racism has a much wider definition ( and obviously a much wider prevalence ) these days. Not tolerating this kind of pointless, ignorant insult to my country and its people is not "over emotional". Calling it that ,is, however, patronising

 

[WatcherZero]

Brochure for new franchisee.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk... franchise/Scotrail Brochure October 2014.pdf

Apart from the most sickening level of congratulatory backslapping I have ever seen in print a lot of blurb with few new details other than some ticketing improvements.

 

[47802]

We know the Intercity Services covered by the upgraded stock as they are set out in Appendix 4 of the ITT.

There are 82 daily services:
14 Aberdeen - Edinburgh
12 Edinburgh - Aberdeen
16 Aberdeen - Glasgow
17 Glasgow - Aberdeen
8 Inverness - Edinburgh
6 Edinburgh - Inverness
4 Inverness - Glasgow
5 Glasgow - Inverness

What I'm not sure of is how many diagrams this translates to.

Yes that pdf that Transport for Scotland have now put out would indicate an extensive HST service including Inverness to Aberdeen.

 

[D6975]

Sorry, yes in the habit of using shed codes for some locations IS = Inverness.
Always amused me though that the shed code for Glasgow's main shed was ED.

 

[ainsworth74]

Sorry, yes in the habit of using shed codes for some locations IS = Inverness.
Always amused me though that the shed code for Glasgows main shed was ED.

Wonderfully clear

 

[cf111]

Brochure for new franchisee.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk... franchise/Scotrail Brochure October 2014.pdf

Apart from the most sickening level of congratulatory backslapping I have ever seen in print a lot of blurb with few new details other than some ticketing improvements.

I like that HST at the top of page 5!

 

[sprinterguy]

How many diagrams of 158s/170s would that free up? Could get rid of quite a few pacers this way.

Based on 2006 diagrams (Outdated, I know, but the numbers certainly won’t have decreased), the combined effect of EGIP and the introduction of HSTs on the Scottish Inter-city routes has the potential to release the entire express fleet of 34 class 170 units, working 30/31 diagrams. There will also be a small number of 158s freed up by these measures, but I don’t know how many.

 

[Clip]

Your first sentence answers itself. I suspect you know perfectly well that racism has a much wider definition ( and obviously a much wider prevalence ) these days. Not tolerating this kind of pointless, ignorant insult to my country and its people is not "over emotional". Calling it that ,is, however, patronising

Yawn. It is over emotional because you know fine well that the scots and english have always had little digs like that at each other over the many years as part of a union. You're just being silly. Very silly.

And even I got the reference he made which Ainsworth even picked up on with regards to whinging northerners. Wipe your tears and wind your neck. Its pathetic to see that racism comment thrown about like that because it loses its meaning rapidly.


back on topic I think using HSTs is an excellent idea. Some of us want them to go n forever you knwo

 

[D6975]

Yes that pdf that Transport for Scotland have now put out would indicate an extensive HST service including Inverness to Aberdeen.

In that case we're looking at 25 sets in service minimum if they're all HSTs.
Add maintenance spares and that's probably going to be 30 ish sets.

Geordie's going to love it.

 

[Sleepy]

Totally selfish but if it's Abellio and you currently work for Abellio is it likely you'll get free travel up there and on the sleeper?

Free travel on Scotrail but sadly the sleeper will be a seperate franchise.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Two-hourly services between Ayr and Stranraer is an interesting development.

 

[jopsuk]

I see they are promising to use the HSTs on the Inverness-Aberdeen line too. Once EGIP is completed with Dunblane and Alloa extensions, that'll leave DMUs only in use on the Far North, West Highland, South Western, Waverly and Fife services (including Perth and Dundee "local" services?), yes?

 

[Clip]

In that case we're looking at 25 sets in service minimum if they're all HSTs.
Add maintenance spares and that's probably going to be 30 ish sets.

Geordie's going to love it.

Thats if the whinging gets let me in to travel on them.

 

[D6975]

Clip - are you Geordie (Top HST basher?)

 

[WatcherZero]

Looking beneath all the spin from a technical standpoint the winning bid seems to be the cheapest with lowest cost (large reuse of HST's releasing MU's) and focusing on low passenger fares. The cheaper tickets for unemployed and cheap advance fares are according to the Scottish Government Abellio's idea.

TS says the fleet size will increase by 23%, If that doesnt count the loss of sleepers thats about 50 (70 more if sleeper replacement counted) including EGIP, I cant really work out what that means in rolling stock terms.

 

[reb0118]

Always amused me though that the shed code for Glasgow's main shed was ED.

Wonderfully clear

EastfielD perchance?

I'm sure Edinburgh's is HA for HAymarket?

 

[Altnabreac]

Brochure for new franchisee.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk... franchise/Scotrail Brochure October 2014.pdf

Apart from the most sickening level of congratulatory backslapping I have ever seen in print a lot of blurb with few new details other than some ticketing improvements.

That Brochure answers a couple of the stock questions.

The refurbished diesel scenic stock will cover West Highland and Kyle lines (as required by ITT) as well as Far North, Stranraer, Glasgow - Dumfries - Carlisle and Borders rail (additional lines added by Abellio bid).

The refurbished diesel Intercity (HST) stock will cover Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen/Inverness (as required by ITT) as well as Aberdeen - Inverness (added by Abellio bid).

So the only routes left for legacy diesel stock will be Shotts line (due for electrification in 2019) East Kilbride, Barrhead, Fife Circle, Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth semi fast.

By the end of the franchise in 2024 most of those routes are likely to be electrified or scheduled for fairly soon afterwards.

Only question is which unit (156, 158 or 170) will be used as the base for the new refurbished scenic stock?

 

[HSTEd]

Will these be full length HSTs?

I imagine Edinburgh-Inverness/Aberdeen could be 2+9 but I don't think Glasgow has the capacity does it?

 

[WatcherZero]

Last I heard the easist conversion to 'tourist' was the the Mk3 rolling stock, slicing them in half longitudually and adding a new roof. Suggestion has always been the Mk3 carriages themselves are in fairly good knick its the locomotives that need a rebuild or replacement.