Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Robertj21a]

Non railway interested folk would be no doubt amazed to learn that the 'DB' stands for 'Deutsche Bahn'

Why would they be 'amazed' ? Have they lived in a cave or just not read papers, or seen a TV ?

Perhaps we'd better have a quiet word with Brian Souter and tell him to not keep expanding his highly successful 'PolskiBus' all across Poland.

 

[sprinterguy]

Usually announced before the Stock Exchange opens at 08:00. Usually makes the 07:00 news on Radio 5 based on previous awards.

An official announcement is reportedly expected at 09:30 today.
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And the BBC clearly know so much about Scotrail that they have a photo of First Capital Connect carriages in the article.

You can rest easy now, the BBC must have been reading this thread. They have changed the image to a pair of Scotrail 170s, and, look, one of them is even in Saltire livery seeing as it is so critical to the report.

(Really can't see the issue myself - A First Group article shows a First Group train)

 

[jamesontheroad]

Abellio take it, and First Group takes a hit...

Source http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/08/firstgroup-loses-scotrail-franchise-abellio-shares

FirstGroup has lost the contract to operate the £2.5bn ScotRail franchise to Abellio, an offshoot of Dutch national railways.

The Aberdeen-based company said Transport Scotland had informed it that it would no longer run Scotland’s main rail service after battling with four rivals for the franchise. It will transfer operations and almost 5,000 employees to Abellio at the start of April after more than 10 years running the franchise.

Tim O’Toole,FirstGroup’s chief executive, said: “We have kept our promises and more for 10 years, delivering record levels of service including during this extraordinary summer in Scotland with the Commonwealth Games and the Ryder Cup. Our bid would have delivered even greater levels of service and growth, and we are disappointed we will not have the opportunity to implement the credible plans we submitted.”

The decision, to be announced by the Scottish transport minister, Keith Brown, , triggered a political row with unions condemning the awarding of the 10-year contract to an overseas company. FirstGroup shares fell by almost 6% in early trading, to 109p.

 

[sprinterguy]

Also, even though it is something that came out last year, i've only just heard of the requirement on the new franchise to run 'Tourist trains'.

Can't find anything specific as to the lines that may be outlined for this.
Are there any yet, or it just a broad suggestion?

Bidders were asked to present plans to operate scenic tourist trains over the West Highland Line to Oban / Fort William and the Kyle Line "as a minimum".

The ITT expanded the statement to include the following:

Bidders are free to identify more widespread or ambitious proposals which promote and facilitate the development of tourism using Scotland’s railways.

There are many folk who go to Kyle on the train just for the journey.
Sure a tourist train would kill the railtours off.

That would not be likely. Railtours cater for a very different market to a local, scheduled scenic train as they bring in passengers from a far more geographically diverse spread of origins a great distance away, conveying passengers essentially paying for a full day "package deal". A scenic train between Inverness and Kyle would not detract from this. The "Jacobite" has not killed off the railtour market on the West Highland now, has it?

Like the Jacobite, any new tourist train anywhere, not just the Kyle line, must be steam hauled.
I really do think the new franchise holder should run a summer only tourist train, replacing the 1058 dep from Inverness.
This free's up a 158.
Steam hauled, with observation car at rear.

I may yet be proved wrong, as I was surprised to see a consideration of scenic trains in the ITT anyway, but I would wager that any bidder who suggested seasonal steam hauled passenger trains as an integral part of the franchise would be very unlikely to win it when you consider the costs of operation, sourcing rolling stock and crews. Of course, it would be far more likely that the TOC would outsource the operation to one of the established railtour operators, but, unless I am mistaken, it is not as if Scotrail currently provide any financial support to the "Jacobite" operation: It is run on a commercial basis by West Coast themselves.

In addition, the ITT suggested that "‘scenic train provision’ may involve the provision of “premium carriages” on standard trains", and I am not aware that any railtour stock is currently fitted with Wi-fi, which is another requirement of the scenic trains initiative!

 

[eisenach]

I just love the way that profits made in Britain (I assume there are some !) by all these state rail companies, SNCF, DB, NedRail, and RATP for London buses, presumably get reinvested in their own systems.
So the British fare-payer is improving the experience for his French, German and Dutch counterparts. How generous of us !

 

[Failed Unit]

I was expecting stagecoach to get this as a reward for Brian support on the independence campaign.

 

[sprinterguy]

I just hope that onboard catering stays in house and that they keep the telisales and service office at FortBill

I agree, especially with the latter. It's a very useful source of employment in an area of limited opportunities (Granted, the aluminium smelter provides a good volume of blue collar work and no doubt support roles, but best not to have all your eggs in one basket: The neaby loss of the Corpach paper mill is a good example). Plus, they're such a helpful, freindly bunch of folks!

Unfortunately with regards to catering, I wouldn't be surprised to see it being outsourced under Abellio.

 

[Johnuk123]

I just love the way that profits made in Britain (I assume there are some !) by all these state rail companies, SNCF, DB, NedRail, and RATP for London buses, presumably get reinvested in their own systems.
So the British fare-payer is improving the experience for his French, German and Dutch counterparts. How generous of us !

The same is happening in the utility companies as well of course.

 

[sprinterguy]

I just love the way that profits made in Britain (I assume there are some !) by all these state rail companies, SNCF, DB, NedRail, and RATP for London buses, presumably get reinvested in their own systems.
So the British fare-payer is improving the experience for his French, German and Dutch counterparts. How generous of us !

I still don't understand this presumption held by some. The British TOCs and home (European) interests are all stand alone companies. It's not as if all the proceeds from British rail franchises disappear into one big pot of the "nasty" parent company.

And why does this presumption only ever work one way? Why are French, German or Dutch proceeds never considered as being pumped into the British interests, which, is perhaps more accurate given that the companies have chosen to bid for the franchises in the first place?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was expecting stagecoach to get this as a reward for Brian support on the independence campaign.

They didn't make the Scotrail short list.
Stagecoach is still in the ICEC bidding with Virgin though, so might still reach Scotland that way.

 

[Failed Unit]

They didn't make the Scotrail short list.
Stagecoach is still in the ICEC bidding with Virgin though, so might still reach Scotland that way.

It was a little joke, just because of the involvement for Mr Souter. Not sure if first group supported better together- but I should be shot for the implication that politics can influence procurement.

Noticing a pattern that when you hit the top of the franchise game the fall is rapid. National express had this trend following it's run as the largest grouping.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It was a little joke, just because of the involvement for Mr Souter. Not sure if first group supported better together- but I should be shot for the implication that politics can influence procurement.

Noticing a pattern that when you hit the top of the franchise game the fall is rapid. National express had this trend following it's run as the largest grouping.

Yes indeed, Abellio and Go-Ahead/Keolis on the way up, First on the way down (with Arriva still bumping along winless).
If Keolis/Eurostar win ICEC we will have a trend...

I thought Brian Souter came over very well in the independence debate.
He was careful to say he was representing Souter Investments and not Stagecoach Group though.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Lots of comments on ScotRails Facebook page, many praising what they hav done and the qualitty of service, many slagging them, others already making comparisons with Northern and saying we'll go the same way and yet more commenting on how proffits are going abroad etc etc etc.↲
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On a side note, I wonder if Scotrail crews from Dumfries and Northern crews from Carlisle will work further into eachothers teritory on the joint Tyne Valley and GSW services?

 

[sprinterguy]

On a side note, I wonder if Scotrail crews from Dumfries and Northern crews from Carlisle will work further into eachothers teritory on the joint Tyne Valley and GSW services?

I don't know about that, those working arrangements have been largely set in stone since late BR days, and seem to be optimal for the operation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

More detail now on the Abellio web site: http://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-awarded-contract-operate-scotlands-national-railway-scotrail

Brand new trains operating between Edinburgh and Glasgow as part of the EGIP project
•Eighty new trains due to arrive at start of December 2017
•Free Wi-Fi capability throughout all carriages
•Enhanced catering service for passengers

and a lot more.
eg:

Transformation of the quality of inter-city services by introducing a fully refurbished fleet of HSTs by December 2018 to connect the seven cities. The refurbishment will deliver:
•high quality on-board service, buffet and at seat catering
•a proper First Class offer for business travellers
•more toilets, luggage space and bike accommodation
•improved journey times and connectivity between the key cities

and this:

Exciting new fares offering excellent value for money for passengers:
•A standard class fare between any two Scottish cities starting at £5
•A new first class advance fare of £7.50 on the same routes
•A new carnet to allow customers to choose where they want to travel , how may tickets they want to buy and how long they need them to be valid
•Launch of Club50, a significantly improved version of Club55

So a new lease of life for the HSTs.
The EGIP and HST plans should release a significant number of 158/170 trains for use elsewhere.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Sounds like a good operation! Aligning seats to windows? On tourist routes? What a silly idea.....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Altnabreac]

HSTs for Intercity routes sounds good. Excellent news!

How many diagrams of 158s/170s would that free up? Could get rid of quite a few pacers this way.

 

[47802]

HSTs for Intercity routes sounds good. Excellent news!

How many diagrams of 158s/170s would that free up? Could get rid of quite a few pacers this way.

I wouldn't be so sure of that one sounds like they be wanting some those to increase capacity on other routes, and we don't actually know how big this HST fleet will be and how many services it will cover. Is it actually going to cover all services to Inverness and Aberdeen from Glasgow/Edinburgh etc, or is just going to cover the busiest services with 170 still covering some services?

 

[Nevillehill]

HSTs for Intercity routes sounds good. Excellent news!

How many diagrams of 158s/170s would that free up? Could get rid of quite a few pacers this way.

They are heading south of the border.

 

[oldman]

How do the acceleration and dwell times of HSTs and 170s compare? They are talking of faster journeys between the key cities, and I wonder how that can be achieved. Fewer stops north of Dundee perhaps?

 

[Simon11]

Firstly, I am quite surprised at the lack of new trains coming into the franchise. The EGIP trains were due to come anyway and the only mention of new trains are refurbished HST..... By the time they work in 2018, I can't see them being used beyond the new franchise and the cost of maintaining these old sets will be huge. I'm sure other bidders would have proposed brand new trains which would benefit Scotland far more.

I'm also surprised at the new Commercial offering, such as a standard class fare between any two Scottish cities starting at £5. Surely this will cause price anomalies or should this really be read as an Advance product?

Any guess that Club 50 will be the same as Club 55 but for over 50's? I don't see any point in offering discounts for this segment of the market who will end up using the product for commuting!

There's also a lack of anything on Revenue Protection and investment to protect this. Or either whether there will be any changes to staffing levels.

 

[reb0118]

..........and that they keep the telesales and service office at FortBill

Not sure if the Scotrail Customer Care Centre at Fort William is in fact regarded as in house ? Can anyone confirm?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm also surprised at the new Commercial offering, such as a standard class fare between any two Scottish cities starting at £5. Surely this will cause price anomalies or should this really be read as an Advance product?

Agreed this struck me as odd. I think, however, the fact the next bullet referrers to a 'first advance fare' suggests that the someone has made a typo and missed the word 'advance' from the bullet relating to standard class tickets.

Interesting that they're going to use refurbished HSTs. I've thought that the intercity routes in Scotland deserve something a bit better than a 158/170 type train but I didn't see them re-using what will, by then, be fairly ancient HSTs. Wonder what the formations will be be? I can't foresee then using 2+8 or 2+9? Perhaps 2+6 or 2+5 (shades of Virgin's Challenger project)? Would also help deal with the acceleration issues.

 

[D6975]

How do the acceleration and dwell times of HSTs and 170s compare? They are talking of faster journeys between the key cities, and I wonder how that can be achieved. Fewer stops north of Dundee perhaps?

Not specifically mentioned, but I suspect that the refurb will include auto doors of some sort (like Chiltern's MK3s) which will bring dwell times down from current HST levels.

 

[47802]

I wouldn't be so sure of that one sounds like they be wanting some those to increase capacity on other routes, and we don't actually know how big this HST fleet will be and how many services it will cover. Is it actually going to cover all services to Inverness and Aberdeen from Glasgow/Edinburgh etc, or is just going to cover the busiest services with 170 still covering some services?

Ok then so it would appear that the HST service is going to quite extensive including an Hourly service between Inverness and Perth and HST's will work the Inverness to Aberdeen route.

Scotrail are still going to need some of these displaced units for the enhanced services on other routes such as the Dumfries route, and presumably more units for these refurbished Tourist trains if they are having more space for luggage and seat that align etc, but I guess some may go south.

The use of HST's well that will please some on here, although to me many look clapped out now whatever refurb you give so by 2025 well!

 

[oldman]

Firstly, I am quite surprised at the lack of new trains coming into the franchise. The EGIP trains were due to come anyway and the only mention of new trains are refurbished HST..... By the time they work in 2018, I can't see them being used beyond the new franchise and the cost of maintaining these old sets will be huge. I'm sure other bidders would have proposed brand new trains which would benefit Scotland far more.

If rolling electrification is the plan, any intercity-spec diesel train might not have a long enough life to justify it.

By the way Transport Scotland are saying that every single station is to get CCTV - even I suppose Altnabreac. That would be a fun job, monitoring the CCTV in the far north. It's all quite extravagant and I wonder how much I'm paying for this.
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Not specifically mentioned, but I suspect that the refurb will include auto doors of some sort (like Chiltern's MK3s) which will bring dwell times down from current HST levels.

Yes, but still two single width on the HST versus two double width on the 170s. The 170 is a short distance train and not ideal for the longer distance traffic; the HST is the reverse.

 

[starrymarkb]

I know it's one word longer but still. Abellio, stupid anyway. No matter how good someone is at saying it, it still sounds like their speaking gibberish.
At least First is a word in the English language.

Could be worse - can you see many Brits getting their tongue around Nederlandse Spoorwegen

 

[Western Lord]

HSTs for Intercity routes sounds good. Excellent news!

Why is the use of life expired trains excellent news? How long before the whinging Scots complain about being fobbed off with clapped out 40 year old stock, while their newer trains head south.

 

[387star]

The Crosscountry 220's now have 'Part of Arriva - A DB company' writ along the top of the outside of the carriages.

Any pics of 220s with the new company branding?

 

[reb0118]

...whinging Scots...

Who is whinging? Elaborate please.