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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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jingsmonty

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Thought so, couldn’t remember the exact details. As much as I’m sure the refurbs are lovely to travel on, they don’t half appear to be money burners with this, the refurb costs, training and, I assume, astronomical fuel burn. One wonders if it wouldn’t have been cheaper to buy a fleet of brand new 802s with a warranty & the ability to make immediate use of rolling electrification.

You make a fair point, but miss the point that an 802 wouldn't have the performance on diesel power (especially on gradients) & their interiors look ghastly too..

Also, this argument has been done to death already & isn't for this thread anyway. We have HST. They are here.
 

Esker-pades

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But a 170 can have Coach A (disabled toilet/seating area) at either end, depending on what way round it is - surely that would be more of an issue than what end the 1st class is at? Which it isn't.

Think Scotrail have more important things to think about than having HST sets all facing in 1 particular direction!
But this of all those poor first class passengers who will have to walk past 3 whole coaches and a power car at Glasgow Queen Street. It'll be the same breed of people as the woman who I heard (after having been held up for about 30 seconds because the barrier wouldn't accept her ticket) commenting to her family "Goodness me! It was like being trapped on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall!"

That was an actual comment by an actual person.
 

najaB

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But a 170 can have Coach A (disabled toilet/seating area) at either end, depending on what way round it is - surely that would be more of an issue than what end the 1st class is at? Which it isn't.
As the five (and hopefully six) carriage trains come into service it becomes more and more of an issue for people of reduced mobility. Though, as others have said, if the formation is announced beforehand it's less of a problem.
 

Esker-pades

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As the five (and hopefully six) carriage trains come into service it becomes more and more of an issue for people of reduced mobility. Though, as others have said, if the formation is known beforehand it's less of a problem.
But surely if one has all the trains with first class at the Glasgow/Edinburgh end, that means that people at Aberdeen and Inverness will have to walk the length of the train.
 

jingsmonty

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But this of all those poor first class passengers who will have to walk past 3 whole coaches and a power car at Glasgow Queen Street. It'll be the same breed of people as the woman who I heard (after having been held up for about 30 seconds because the barrier wouldn't accept her ticket) commenting to her family "Goodness me! It was like being trapped on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall!"

That was an actual comment by an actual person.

:lol::lol:
 

najaB

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But surely if one has all the trains with first class at the Glasgow/Edinburgh end, that means that people at Aberdeen and Inverness will have to walk the length of the train.
But at least they'll know that they need to and won't be standing at the wrong end of the platform (less of a problem at the terminal stations than at intermediate ones, obviously).
 

jingsmonty

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But surely if one has all the trains with first class at the Glasgow/Edinburgh end, that means that people at Aberdeen and Inverness will have to walk the length of the train.

I can only imagine how low a priority this will be on Scotrail's "to do" list.....
 

jingsmonty

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But at least they'll know that they need to and won't be standing at the wrong end of the platform (less of a problem at the terminal stations than at intermediate ones, obviously).

They won't be standing waiting on the platform at Inverness, as it is barriered....
 

jingsmonty

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About as high as train staff for the new services and trains? (Or is that too cheap a shot?)

Not really, to be honest - it's a very fair critism! Because the new staff have been taken on far too late, we now are having to train a large block of new staff at one time (rather than feeding them through gradually) as well as training all the existing staff on the new trains & HSTs....

A recipie for chaos (hopefully just in the short term, though)
 

Millisle

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But this of all those poor first class passengers who will have to walk past 3 whole coaches and a power car at Glasgow Queen Street. It'll be the same breed of people as the woman who I heard (after having been held up for about 30 seconds because the barrier wouldn't accept her ticket) commenting to her family "Goodness me! It was like being trapped on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall!"

That was an actual comment by an actual person.

It is a figure of speech called hyperbole that humorously exaggerates the travails of a situation. Quite witty in fact.
 

47271

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The refurb-ed coaches have painted letters on them.
I know they do, I was just making the point that they don't need to overcomplicate things when all that needs to happen is that a simple thing is done reliably!

Changing the subject a bit, has the 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness ever actually run as an HST? I was there right back at the beginning of the new timetable (it might even have been the first Monday, I can't remember) and it broke down before it left the platform. I went to the pub for two hours to wait for the next service. Ever since when I've been on it's been a 170.
 

InvHst

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I know they do, I was just making the point that they don't need to overcomplicate things when all that needs to happen is that a simple thing is done reliably!

Changing the subject a bit, has the 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness ever actually run as an HST? I was there right back at the beginning of the new timetable (it might even have been the first Monday, I can't remember) and it broke down before it left the platform. I went to the pub for two hours to wait for the next service. Ever since when I've been on it's been a 170.
Yes it has been many times got it at Perth before Christmas even after ScotRail themselves saying it was a 170.

However for a 2nd consecutive day majority of hst services out of Ness are not running train faults and shortage of train crew yet again. 1255 today only going to perth which I'm getting to go to Glasgow
 

jingsmonty

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I know they do, I was just making the point that they don't need to overcomplicate things when all that needs to happen is that a simple thing is done reliably!

Changing the subject a bit, has the 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness ever actually run as an HST? I was there right back at the beginning of the new timetable (it might even have been the first Monday, I can't remember) and it broke down before it left the platform. I went to the pub for two hours to wait for the next service. Ever since when I've been on it's been a 170.

It did on Monday night...mind you, an instructor & a driver learning HSTs turned up in Perth a couple of weeks ago to have a run on the 1900 Perth to Inverness (same working) & a 158 turned up...I shudder to think how busy THAT would have been leaving Waverley at 1739!

It has been an HST a few times (I've been on the southbound working & crossed it at Dunkeld), but not nearly often enough.
 

Northhighland

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It did on Monday night...mind you, an instructor & a driver learning HSTs turned up in Perth a couple of weeks ago to have a run on the 1900 Perth to Inverness (same working) & a 158 turned up...I shudder to think how busy THAT would have been leaving Waverley at 1739!

It has been an HST a few times (I've been on the southbound working & crossed it at Dunkeld), but not nearly often enough.

Was on that train leaving Waverley was carnage. Really unacceptable. If not improved very soon, passengers going to complain very loudly.
 

swaldman

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Drifting off topic, but does anyone know why they can't be a**ed to label 170 coaches A-B-C, it pretty much died with First leaving the franchise?

Gah. Yes. This is immensely frustrating when you have a seat reservation in A or C and no way to tell which is which. (people here might be able to tell from where First is, but most of us can't)
 

gsnedders

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You'd have the same issue with the 802s - the engines would require pre-heating and have similar issues around cold starts. Same manufacturer!

New trains would also cost significantly more to lease.
The engines can pre-heat from a single running one, AIUI? So you only need a single engine running to keep the rest warm. And I imagine each engine on an 802 uses much less fuel than a single 43!
 

Highlandspring

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The totally dead set (can’t remember the number off the top of my head) which has been sitting at Eastfield for weeks is supposed to be getting dragged to Haymarket by the LNER thunderbird tonight.
 

jingsmonty

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The engines can pre-heat from a single running one, AIUI? So you only need a single engine running to keep the rest warm. And I imagine each engine on an 802 uses much less fuel than a single 43!

Yes, you can pre-heat both engines with 1 power car running (also keeps the compressors running, coach aircon/lighting, etc), via the ETS.

What would be even better and would eliminate the cost of running a power car constantly (at 1000rpm, as opposed to 750rpm at idle) would be to install shore supplies -the cost would pay for itself pretty quickly!
 

43096

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What would be even better and would eliminate the cost of running a power car constantly (at 1000rpm, as opposed to 750rpm at idle) would be to install shore supplies -the cost would pay for itself pretty quickly!
Not only that, but every hour you leave a power car idling is another hour logged on the MDEC and another hour closer to overhaul. Unlike the Valenta and VP185, which use TOPS hours (ie hours in traffic) to determine overhaul periods, the MTU uses actual engine hours recorded on the MDEC regardless of whether that is in service or sat idling on a depot.
 
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