ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[jingsmonty]

I believe this has already been asked and explained (apologies if so), but would it be possible for ScotRail to take on LNER Mk3’s, as I imagine these are in much better condition? I imagine even if they could it would likely be too late to refurbish them, but could they be used for ‘classic’ sets? Having just been refurbished a couple of years ago, I’m sure passengers would prefer (and be more familiar with) the LNER Mk3’s to the old FGW ones?

A very good point, but think LNER are some way away from giving up their HSTs - especially with the issues they're currently having with their IEPs. Scotrail have the current stock on lease until 2030, I think?

Good idea though

 

[jingsmonty]

Depends how it goes with the refurbed sets, once they are settled in, as far as reliability and popularity with passengers are concerned. And perhaps subsequent TOCs could benefit from the results of the learning curve that is presumably currently being climbed. Maybe it means that the cost per set is more than what was hoped for with this batch - but still at a point which makes it competitive with new build, and would come with more confidence that it, and timescales, were realistic.

That's my thoughts too - I'd think for some TOCs, what is, in effect, a very powerful, comfortable & quick DEMU might be attractive (with low leasing costs). GWR, CrossCountry &, obviously, Scotrail are demonstrating this

 

[Northhighland]

Yes, crap as this situation is, some necks well and truly need winding in.

Your attitude typifies why nothing ever changes and mistakes are repeated over and over in the rail industry.

We have a solution to a problem that is months late and as far as any tangible evidence goes is still out of control.

There is no believable date for the fleet of refurbed HST’s to be in operation. Couple that with the introduction of 385’s, Caledonian sleeper stock and clearly there is a pattern of delay after delay in introducing replacement stock. That is just in Scotland. Look across the UK and the picture is the same.

Maybe if we spent some time explaining to the long suffering customers why mistakes are repeated over and over then it wouldn’t keep happening again and again.

Maybe costs would be controlled. Maybe fares would be lower. Maybe customers would treated differently.

But then maybe nothing will ever change and we just shrug our shoulders and accept failure.

 

[gsnedders]

I must admit I have wondered the same, but also are/should there be any obligations on the leasees (ie GWR) to maintain their vehicles in a suitable condition before returning to the Rosco? I lease my car and guarantee that if when I handed it back full of rust and holes I shrugged my shoulders saying ‘sorry it’s been near the sea every day’ then I would be faced with a very large bill.

There will be an agreed standard which stock must be in before being returned to the ROSCO.

 

[najaB]

Did something happen with 1A81 1736 Edinburgh to Aberdeen today? Was on time leaving Waverly but 20L leaving Haymarket, according to RTT.

 

[43096]

There will be an agreed standard which stock must be in before being returned to the ROSCO.

Agreed. And I expect GWR are being clobbered by the ROSCOs for the state of the vehicles returned. Angel will be being passed some large bills by Wabtec for work arising where the vehicles are not in the expected condition and Wabtec are having to make good the vehicles. This is, of course, one of the reasons why the programme is delayed.

 

[hexagon789]

Did something happen with 1A81 1736 Edinburgh to Aberdeen today? Was on time leaving Waverly but 20L leaving Haymarket, according to RTT.

Wasn't the signalling issues at Haymarket maybe?

 

[chuff chuff]

Journey check mentions fault which was sorted.

 

[Highland37]

That's my thoughts too - I'd think for some TOCs, what is, in effect, a very powerful, comfortable & quick DEMU might be attractive (with low leasing costs). GWR, CrossCountry &, obviously, Scotrail are demonstrating this

You think that given the combined efforts of Wabtec, Angel Trains, Abellio, Transport Scotland and others, have failed to get anything close to what was promised, others will be keen to embark on the same process?

 

[Highlandspring]

Did something happen with 1A81 1736 Edinburgh to Aberdeen today? Was on time leaving Waverly but 20L leaving Haymarket, according to RTT.

Wasn't the signalling issues at Haymarket maybe?

Nothing to do with the earlier axle counter failure, it was an problem with the set.

 

[hexagon789]

Nothing to do with the earlier axle counter failure, it was an problem with the set.

Any idea of the precise nature of the fault with the set?

 

[Highlandspring]

Yes. It wasn’t a fault....

 

[Rail Blues]

Your attitude typifies why nothing ever changes and mistakes are repeated over and over in the rail industry.

We have a solution to a problem that is months late and as far as any tangible evidence goes is still out of control.

There is no believable date for the fleet of refurbed HST’s to be in operation. Couple that with the introduction of 385’s, Caledonian sleeper stock and clearly there is a pattern of delay after delay in introducing replacement stock. That is just in Scotland. Look across the UK and the picture is the same.

Maybe if we spent some time explaining to the long suffering customers why mistakes are repeated over and over then it wouldn’t keep happening again and again.

Maybe costs would be controlled. Maybe fares would be lower. Maybe customers would treated differently.

But then maybe nothing will ever change and we just shrug our shoulders and accept failure.

[Le sigh.]

Woe betide you write anything melodramatic.

FYI i don't walk in the rail industry.

Demanding the equivalent of Robert Mueller's investigation into Trump to satify the curiosity of rail enthusiasts and issuing bombastic demands for 'the truth' like you were Tom Cruise's character in a few good men, isn't helping.

We need to know who knew what when. Only then will we know the truth. No point in pushing forward with this if it can’t be delivered.

If you really want to do something about a situation that seems to cause you undue angst, join a rail users group, lobby your elected representatives or any number of public transport pressure groups, write letters to Scotrail, Angel trains, Wabtec and the toiliet attendant at Waverley station if you really must, but the warrior for trith and justice shtick comes across as a bit silly.

 

[BRX]

You think that given the combined efforts of Wabtec, Angel Trains, Abellio, Transport Scotland and others, have failed to get anything close to what was promised, others will be keen to embark on the same process?

They wouldn't be embarking on the same process though, that's the point.

 

[jingsmonty]

You think that given the combined efforts of Wabtec, Angel Trains, Abellio, Transport Scotland and others, have failed to get anything close to what was promised, others will be keen to embark on the same process?

I was making the very same point slightly earlier in this thread. Like I already said, that's my big worry about the future of HSTs - great trains, compromised by slam doors & non CET Mk3s.

See #6687 & #6688

 

[Northhighland]

[Le sigh.]

Woe betide you write anything melodramatic.

FYI i don't walk in the rail industry.

Demanding the equivalent of Robert Mueller's investigation into Trump to satify the curiosity of rail enthusiasts and issuing bombastic demands for 'the truth' like you were Tom Cruise's character in a few good men, isn't helping.



If you really want to do something about a situation that seems to cause you undue angst, join a rail users group, lobby your elected representatives or any number of public transport pressure groups, write letters to Scotrail, Angel trains, Wabtec and the toiliet attendant at Waverley station if you really must, but the warrior for trith and justice shtick comes across as a bit silly.

Cracking attitude A perfect example of the attitude that leads to the current poor service and high fares.

End of debate with you no wish to carry this on.

 

[Highland37]

They wouldn't be embarking on the same process though, that's the point.

What process would they use then?

There is no evidence to suggest that the process is flawed. It is just that Wabtec are unable to complete it within the time agreed

 

[Rail Blues]

Cracking attitude A perfect example of the attitude that leads to the current poor service and high fares.

End of debate with you no wish to carry this on.

And a series of martyr-ish and pompus posts aimed at fellow enthuiasts achieves what? There's plenty of useful and proactive things you could do, but fyou prefer to fling accusations around on here.

'End of debate'

Okay if you want to be all high handed about it, be my guest, im sure I'll find something else to fill the void in my life and the insicive debate and piercing analysis you've offered.

 

[BRX]

What process would they use then?

There is no evidence to suggest that the process is flawed. It is just that Wabtec are unable to complete it within the time agreed

They'd be entering into a process where the time and cost predictions would be more reliable because there would be fewer unknowns.

 

[Highland37]

Dude, the current programmes are miles behind. No one is going to be embarking on further refurbishments of 40 year old vehicles which have been extremely difficult to get into service.

 

[jingsmonty]

What process would they use then?

There is no evidence to suggest that the process is flawed. It is just that Wabtec are unable to complete it within the time agreed

That's pretty much my take on it - perhaps any future Mk3 trailer refurbishment contract may be awarded to another company? Assuming there ARE any other companies out there who this sort of work, that is!

 

[jingsmonty]

Dude, the current programmes are miles behind. No one is going to be embarking on further refurbishments of 40 year old vehicles which have been extremely difficult to get into service.

Do we actually know if it's the state of the vehicles that's causing the delays? Or are there other issues involved? Answer: we don't. I don't have an inside contact in Wabtec & I suspect no-one else on here does either. We're just speculating.

I could believe the vehicles ARE causing some delays, but I could also believe that Wabtec are short of staff as well (hence the recent attempts to recruit more staff).

It's probably not one particular thing, more a few issues causing a perfect storm...

 

[Goldromans]

The 3rd set moving later today?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O92940/2019/03/21/advanced

 

[_toommm_]

The 3rd set moving later today?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O92940/2019/03/21/advanced

Fingers crossed...

 

[InOban]

Coming through Waverley this time. Stopping for a break in platform 19.

 

[nat67]

The 3rd set moving later today?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O92940/2019/03/21/advanced

It could be but 43129 & 43028 as they moved from Loughborough this morning and possibly picked up the third set?

 

[_toommm_]

And we have movement!

 

[InOban]

We have indeed! And it's described in RTT as empty coaching stock!

 

[AndrewE]

and it's currently "Right Time" too... Which must be a first for these sets!

 

[chuff chuff]

Refurb move confirmed internally.