ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. Steven_G

    Steven_G Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2018
    We need some positivity in this thread.

    Someone go down and pick up set 6
     
  2. sde426

    sde426 Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    12 Aug 2018
    Post #8300 stated the fault was fixed at Eastfield by replacing a turbocharger. This suggests the fault may have been a leaking oil seal on one of the four turbochargers, causing lube oil ingestion to the cylinders. Hence the engine continued to run by combusting lube oil instead of diesel after the engine had been “shut down” via the stop button. Isolating the diesel supply from the fuel pump would therefore also have had no effect.

    If that’s what the fault mechanism was (I’m just speculating here...), then that would explain why the rear power car was still belching smoke as it was dragged back up to Eastfield. It was nominally “shut down” with no diesel supply, but was still running at a random speed with no governor control. The engine speed would have been entirely dependent on the oil seal leakage rate. Fortunately the leakage rate wasn’t high enough to overspeed the engine and cause major damage (that really would have smoked out Queen Street!).

    Presumably the only way to stop the engine once on shed was to isolate the lube oil supply to the offending turbocharger, either by closing an isolating valve on the supply pipe (which would be a sensible provision) or by physically disconnecting the pipe (messy!).

    Incidentally, if this fault mechanism ever afflicts your family diesel car, the only way to stop it is to select top gear and dump the clutch while standing on the brake, before the over speeding engine destroys itself (and your bank balance!).
     
  3. InvHst

    InvHst Member

    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    9 Dec 2018
    A new classic HST set was introduced today into service However due to signal fault earlier in the day has ended up in Dundee carriage sidings. Interesting to see them put another into the mix is this to get them up to scratch before the August reopen of the line between Inverness and aberdeen when a few diagrams change.

    Also question for Inverness guys what's the situation regarding the 0707 from queen Street what does it work when it gets to Inverness now I'm curious as it worked the 1527 today to huntly and goes to Elgin as well
     
  4. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    29 Jun 2012
    Why did Scotrail
    not second or send people to shadow the GWR teams?

    This is a very well understood design, where pretty much everything there is to learn, has been learned, but not by Scotrail or Wabtec. And that's before the training and staffing issues are considered.

    To those saying the smog in Queen Street was not an issue - people have moved on. They don't want to go to a place full of diesel fumes from and malfunctioning unit. The public deserve better than this shambolic project.
     
  5. gingertom

    gingertom Member

    Messages:
    706
    Joined:
    19 Jun 2017
    Location:
    Kilsyth
    Someone I know bought a used car with 12k genuine miles on the clock, meticulously maintained, and a couple of months later (and out of warranty) the turbo let go, lots of smoke, no power. ££££ to fix. Age and maintenance regimes aren't always a factor. Sometimes these things just happen.
     
  6. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    It's hardly a regular occurance.
     
  7. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Exactly, anything mechanical is going to have an inherent level of unpredictability about it, things can and will just break or not function properly.
     
  8. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

    Messages:
    2,392
    Joined:
    14 Oct 2017
    They did. Just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
     
  9. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    29 Jun 2012
    Really? You want to get yourself to a modern railway like OBB in Austria. No diesel fumes in stations much less well used and better used than Queen Street. It's 2019 and here we are using ancient stock, hardly any of which is actually with the operator, with a poor training programme and a railway unable to deliver the service it itself promised.

    I like the HSTs, but the shambolic nature of this programme has put me right off the railway.
     
  10. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    29 Jun 2012
    So why are people saying that this needs time to bed in? Either the learning took place or it didn't. There has been plenty of time to get on top of this.
     
  11. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    I've never noticed fumes in Queen Street, even. Certainly you see the exhaust off trains but it's never created a palpable "atmosphere".
     
  12. TT-ONR-NRN

    TT-ONR-NRN On Moderation

    Messages:
    2,770
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2016
    Location:
    Windlesham
    The irony, when the mainstay of ÖBB’s intercity fleet is 100% loco hauled. Where as here our traction is, in general, far more modern. The HSTs are perfectly suitable for these InterScotland trips. They are IMO highly inadequate for long journeys such as GWR London to Cornwall and the 80x are much better for those journeys, but the shortened HST is ideal for the journeys ScotRail use them on and the exhaust fumes really are minimal.
     
  13. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

    Messages:
    514
    Joined:
    19 Aug 2016
    Yes passengers are such a pain, they are so stupid.

    Training excuse is really poor and has worn so thin it is now threadbare. Scotrail have had a few years to plan for this. It was obvious classics were going to needed at least a year before they did anything.

    Hard to argue this is anything other than a shambles. Also the GWR point if experience is so vital why not make more use of GWR knowledge?

    Still doesn’t explain the classic sets lying out of service. The number leased would indicate more should be in service than currently is the case.

    Perfectly reasonable points to make.
     
  14. 43096

    43096 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,385
    Joined:
    23 Nov 2015
    So why are you not ScotRail MD if you know it all?
     
  15. RLBH

    RLBH Member

    Messages:
    783
    Joined:
    17 May 2018
    It is. You've got (more or less) an hourly Edinburgh-Aberdeen taking 2h30, an hourly Glasgow-Aberdeen taking 3h, an hourly Inverness taking 3h30, and an hourly Aberdeen-Inverness taking 2h15. That's 23 sets working, plus some extras for maintenance.

    I believe the actual figure, come up with by people who presumably analysed timetables properly rather than spending 30 seconds getting rough running times, is 22 diagrams to be covered.
    Having it at all is a decent improvement over the trolley, and I assume that the buffet counter also has more stock than a trolley could.
     
  16. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

    Messages:
    514
    Joined:
    19 Aug 2016
    Great reply. When you have no answer get personal. Pretty poor effort.
     
  17. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    Yes it would. The shore supply keeps the ETS (train supply) running, without having a power car running. It's more for the stabling points at the depots, rather than the station platforms though - I don't know if the stations are being equipped or not? For HSTs with quick turnarounds, it probably wouldn't be used anyway. Currently, an HST stabled at the depot in the evening, for service the next day, would be left with a power car running (at 1000rpm, equivalent to Notch 2 power) all night. Not ideal!
     
  18. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    Not sure if you're just taking about the Scotrail 4+2 sets, ot the GWR 'Castle' sets as well? I'd expect the GWR ones to be better, given the 40+ Years of experience & infrastructure that's in place for them (as scotraildriver said in an earlier post).
     
  19. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Would imagine it does, and certainly it is an improvement but I think it needs two staff members to work effectively. One each for the trolley and the buffet.
     
  20. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    I'm guessing it referred to GWR.
     
  21. chuff chuff

    chuff chuff Member

    Messages:
    265
    Joined:
    25 Sep 2018
    It should be two their rather short of staff at the moment,training new staff is apparently ongoing.
     
  22. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Should cut both noise, pollution and fuel costs and so it's very important addition I would think, hopefully they get the supplies in place soon.
     
  23. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Yes, I'd heard they were having to use one staff member to operate both trolley and buffet - not ideal, but hopefully that will be sorted in time.
     
  24. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    Current rumour is that only 1 hospitality staff member will be onboard. Which isn't great. I've not travelled on a refurbished set in service yet, but others have said that the buffet hasn't been used & has only had a trolley onboard. Seems like missing an open goal to me. .
     
  25. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    Definetly! I heard the shore supplies would be installed once the actual building/infrastructure work is completed
     
  26. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    It does to an extent, yes. If it's just a trolley, what's the difference against the previous catering service?

    Seems a shame to go to the bother of having a buffet and not use them. Mind you, it's not the first time.
     
  27. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2016
    Location:
    Glasgow
    I'm sure the locals will be pleased at the noise reduction!
     
  28. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    The training point isn't an excuse. It's a fact. You've a point about the planning of it all, but remember, the vast amount of training isn't just HSTs - other depots have had other new traction (385s, mainly) & there's a vast number of new starts requiring extensive training too. My own depot has over 20 trainee drivers just now (a nearly 50% increase in complement!), all of whom require a Driver Instructor. This ties up D.I.s who would otherwise be free to do the HST practical handling training (which involves either 1 DI & 2 Drivers, or 2 DIs & 4 Drivers having their shifts covered for 2-3 weeks), when there's turns not being covered as it is.

    No point going on about the organisating of it all (I'm sure it'll be discussed when it all settles down), it is what it is. Moaning won't change anything. There's a huge amount of change going on just now (more than I've ever seen) which all impact on each other
     
  29. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    I think (note the caveat - I'm not sure!) it works Huntly x2/Elgin, like you say. That's probably to keep our traction retention, since we're not seeing them on the HML much.
     
  30. jingsmonty

    jingsmonty Established Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Joined:
    21 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Inverness
    To be honest, Inverness station area hasn't really had an issue with noise. eg, no restrictions with doing safety checks (including sounding the horn) when working nightshift. Only real area where noise pollution would be an issue is out North of the station, as there's houses that back onto the line. We only go out there to couple sets & to change ends for shunt moves.
     

Share This Page