ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

route:oxford

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Think that's unlikely, although its marked as unused toilet maybe it will be an equipment cubicle as suggested earlier in this thread the fact that the coach for bike storage has no usable toilet but still retains unused toilet as well perhaps suggests there is some reason behind it,
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43096

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I had it on both Highland and Stirling Chieftains on my trips North to Stirling this summer. Then a futher 4 times on my trips to Edinburgh - on two of those occasions (both on advances), when my time into London didn't matter, Virgin were kind enough to honour the ticket for the next train instead.
You changed trains on advance tickets because of the seats?

It makes something of a mockery of the advance ticket T&Cs - they should have either said no, or chung you for the privilege.
 

47271

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A very interesting find and thank you for posting. The design seems to be shaping up pretty much as I hoped it would.
 

route:oxford

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You changed trains on advance tickets because of the seats?
Indeed

It makes something of a mockery of the advance ticket T&Cs
Not really, my travel expectations were based on existing experience of travelling on the East coast for many years. When I booked the train, I wasn't warned that the service would be delivered by sub-standard hired-in stock...

they should have either said no, or chung you for the privilege.
Nonsense, I asked first and they were happy to oblige.

In reality, a refund should be offered to individuals who are suffer the discomfort and incovenience of travelling on this stock.
 

Clansman

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In reality, a refund should be offered to individuals who are suffer the discomfort and incovenience of travelling on this stock.
If that were the case then I think every passenger would get a refund for the sake of getting a free ride then...not a bad tactic I must say ;)

Having travelled on that stock while it was still a mix and match interior (with FGW and EMT seats) I can honestly say it was dreadfull. Having rode the set again last month after refurbishment I do think it's nice and comfy to an extent, but I wouldn't blame you for switching trains though, if you actually did of course ;)

The IC70s have nothing compared to the Mallard seats, in my opinion; mainly due to the armrests and the low height.
 
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43096

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Oh yes.



For the sake of 6 minutes into London by waiting for the next train - who wouldn't if given the opportunity?
That's your opinion.

And in answer, I wouldn't wait, particularly as the IC70 is a superior seat. That is also an opinion, before you start again...
 

lincolnshire

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That's your opinion.

And in answer, I wouldn't wait, particularly as the IC70 is a superior seat. That is also an opinion, before you start again...
I will agree with the above quote, I myself am pleased to find its an ex East Midlands Trains set as there seats are far better than the usual ones.

Since the refit to red seats they have got a little better due to the fact that they seem to have raised the front edge just slightly to make the the seats better.

I find long journeys give me numb bum syndrome and also find the armrests stick into your sides especially on the window side where you can,t lift the arm rest as they are fixed while fidgeting around to try and get comfortable.
 

JohnR

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Disapointed that we seem to be going from 4 bike spaces per 3-car 170 down to 2 bike spaces on a 2+5 HST. The ide of converted the disused toilets into additional bike racks/luggage space makes sense.
 

ld0595

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Disapointed that we seem to be going from 4 bike spaces per 3-car 170 down to 2 bike spaces on a 2+5 HST. The ide of converted the disused toilets into additional bike racks/luggage space makes sense.
Bear in mind that each powercar will be able to store 3 bikes each.
 

Clansman

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only for end to end journeys. not used at intermediate stations due to dwell time constraints.
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose, as a lot of Cycle tracks lay at intermediate stations such as those on the Highland Mainline. Dunkeld springs to mind, the dwell times from trying to get a bike from the power car on such a low platform must be tough going.
 
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shaun

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Used to love IC70s growing up, but they've had their day. They're comfy until I'm forced to sit up on a busy train... Then the low back is evident. Much prefer the current seats on GWR HSTs as they provide increased legroom as well as a higher back...and I can still slouch in them!

Look forward to trying a Scotrail HST!
 

47271

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jopsuk

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only for end to end journeys. not used at intermediate stations due to dwell time constraints.
That's purely speculation from this thread! It could be they do thinks more intelligently and allow bookings to places of higher demand and/or with station staff to use the power cars
 

43183

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No, you're not the only one. :) I don't like the high density layout that GWR have got them in on their HSTs, but I like them quite well on the ATW, EMT and Scotrail class 158s that they're fitted to - I envisage that they'll be entirely suitable on Scotrail's HSTs.
Are the grammer seats on ATW and EMTs MK3 vehicles too? I quite like them on Great Western, but I've never travelled very far on one.
 

Clansman

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Are the grammer seats on ATW and EMTs MK3 vehicles too? I quite like them on Great Western, but I've never travelled very far on one.
They are used on the ATW ones, but have a smaller triangular headrest for whatever reason. EMT use Grammar seats on their 158s which are the same as GWR and Scotrail, but their HSTs are IC70s :)
 

fgwrich

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Are the grammer seats on ATW and EMTs MK3 vehicles too? I quite like them on Great Western, but I've never travelled very far on one.
Same seats are also fitted to the ATW Mk3s as well.

These Grammer seats are in ATWs 158s & Mk3s, EMT 158s, ScotRail 'Inverness' 158s, FGW HST and SWT 458s (the former First Class section).
 

43096

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These Grammer seats are in ... and SWT 458s (the former First Class section).
To be really, really pedantic, they're only in sets 458501-530. 458531-536 are all standard class, but I assume they will be modified before going on to Reading services.
 

380101

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That's purely speculation from this thread! It could be they do thinks more intelligently and allow bookings to places of higher demand and/or with station staff to use the power cars
It's correct. I've a wee bit more knowledge of the matter than just this thread. A look through some of my other posts will show that I do.

The HSTs are being lauded as a way to cut journey times on the intercity routes. Given the current media hysterics over Scotrail performance, short dwell times are a priority.
 

Starmill

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You changed trains on advance tickets because of the seats?

It makes something of a mockery of the advance ticket T&Cs - they should have either said no, or chung you for the privilege.
Or provided proper seats for everyone?
 

Starmill

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The 'proper-ness' of the IC70 seat is, however, a matter of opinion. There are some posters on this very thread who profess a preference for them!
In which case that's fine and the passenger is both on the right train and happy. I just think it's ridiculous to complain that VTEC did something to help someone.
 

43096

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Or provided proper seats for everyone?
If you're doing that, there are many other seats types on the railway that needing sorting first: Pacer bus seats, Merseyrail Pacers, the ironing board seats in 387s etc etc
 

JohnR

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It's correct. I've a wee bit more knowledge of the matter than just this thread. A look through some of my other posts will show that I do.

The HSTs are being lauded as a way to cut journey times on the intercity routes. Given the current media hysterics over Scotrail performance, short dwell times are a priority.
Also, the original document mentions that use of the power cars is subject to operational reasons. Imagine how long it would take someone to go from one end of the train to the other with their bike, get it stowed into the PC? Dwell times will need to be short in order to ensure the journey time reductions are achieved.
 

Bletchleyite

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I certainly have chosen trains based on the seating fitted when on walk-ups...it's the reason why I have been a serial avoider of Mk4s other than in 1st since GNER made a mess of them with seats with the base sloped the wrong way (I'm led to believe VTEC have fixed this with new or modified two-piece cushions). I rarely use Advances so that hasn't entered consideration.

What I *do* do, when choosing flights where time is not a consideration, is choose based on aircraft type/seating layout, and while I wouldn't be entitled to change flights if they changed equipment I would still be a bit miffed that it had happened were it not for good reasons e.g. a breakdown.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, the original document mentions that use of the power cars is subject to operational reasons. Imagine how long it would take someone to go from one end of the train to the other with their bike, get it stowed into the PC? Dwell times will need to be short in order to ensure the journey time reductions are achieved.
The solution to that is to ensure that the PIS shows the correct formation including where bicycles go against clearly marked platform zones at every station. Just about every other European country seems to manage this. DB have had the "Wagenstandanzeiger" posters on platforms for over 20 years, and put it on the PIS if the train is malformed ("umgekehrter/geaenderter Wagenreihung").
 
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ScotTrains

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Also, the original document mentions that use of the power cars is subject to operational reasons. Imagine how long it would take someone to go from one end of the train to the other with their bike, get it stowed into the PC? Dwell times will need to be short in order to ensure the journey time reductions are achieved.
The good thing about the HSTs is that there is a power car at each end capable of carrying bikes. The Scotrail trains are fairly short, therefore passenger should only need to walk through a max of 2 or 3 coaches to get to the nearest power car.
I've travelled first class on an extendolino with a bike before. That involved walking through almost all 11 coaches to get my bike! Luckily I started walking long before the train arrived!
 

Highland37

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Also, the original document mentions that use of the power cars is subject to operational reasons. Imagine how long it would take someone to go from one end of the train to the other with their bike, get it stowed into the PC? Dwell times will need to be short in order to ensure the journey time reductions are achieved.
I think you are probably right but Abellio will rightly suffer a lot of negative PR if they can't utilise the additional capacity. It's a real issue for an area very reliant on tourism and the NC 500 is making it even more important.
 

DaveNewcastle

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Disapointed that we seem to be going from 4 bike spaces per 3-car 170 down to 2 bike spaces on a 2+5 HST.
Bear in mind that each powercar will be able to store 3 bikes each.
only for end to end journeys. not used at intermediate stations due to dwell time constraints.
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose, as a lot of Cycle tracks lay at intermediate stations such as those on the Highland Mainline. Dunkeld springs to mind, the dwell times from trying to get a bike from the power car on such a low platform must be tough going.
I, too, was disapointed at the provision of just 2 spaces (plus those in the power car - is it just the car next to the guard, or in both power cars?). As it is in the summer months, there are often 3 bikes squeezed into a unit, and not all travelling end to end, and the Chieftan's spaces are often filled months in advance. But unless the end-to-end bikes are stored in the power cars by default, then there's not going to be much chance for the passenger arriving at the intermediate stations wanting to take their bike on board.

The good thing about the HSTs is that there is a power car at each end capable of carrying bikes. The Scotrail trains are fairly short, therefore passenger should only need to walk through a max of 2 or 3 coaches to get to the nearest power car.
Not just you, though. The Guard, or someone else with a train key, would have to make the same walk, open the door, let you and bike in (or out), wait for you to secure/release the bike, wait for you to exit, secure the door behind you, and walk back to resume their dispatch duties. If it was at an unstaffed station, then that would involve walking the entire length of the train, where we hope they don't encounter another pasenger wanting to load/unload their bike into the other power car (through its locked door).
 
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