ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    AIUI there's been two separate issues going on. The initial extra IEPs (the first part of the 802 orders) replace the X number of normal length HSTs that were originally going to be kept for the Paddington to Plymouth/Penzance route.

    There has since been another cunning plan to produce a batch of shortened HSTs for use on routes within the west country to overcome the medium term problems with DMU cascades.
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Oh I see, thanks.
     
  3. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    The Daily Record wrote an article on their take on the HSTs...

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotrails-new-fleet-trains-old-9389369

    "New seats and tables" - lol, wait till they find out most are just recycled rubbish from the GWR ones which have been in place for around 10 years...
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I know the GWR "tombstone" seats are not to everyone's taste, but they are quite high quality and in very good condition and do not need replacing. New covers will be fine.
     
  5. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    I wouldn't describe the FGW Dynamic Lines refurb sets as recycled rubbish. Aside from the GWR set, the FGW interiors are still in very good condition and perfectly suitable with the right light refurbishment for services with ScotRail. And besides, ScotRail hardly class the first class interiors as 'recycled rubbish' if the majority of it including the carpet is to stay!

    Nice to see the sticking point for the media is as usual their age. One of Paul Cliftons most annoying hooks about them, despite the fact they are still highly regarded as the best Intercity type train around.
     
  6. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    I was more exagerrating on the basis that the seats and tables will be unchanged, contrary to vaiours media sources stating that these will be brand spanking new. Just more so thinking that Scotrail could've used larger tables in standard class (as used on XC and VTEC HSTs) as opposed to the small curved ones on GWR (and EMT) HSTs.

    As for first class, I wouldn't class them as recycled rubbish. Recycled in the basis that it's being re-used on Scotrail, but again I was exagerrating the point. I've not tried the GWR first class before so I'm very much looking forward to getting a wee shot when they come up here.
     
  7. QueensCurve

    QueensCurve Established Member

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    The tables are tiny and scarcely fit for purpose.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    In the 1980s the delays with one poer car failed used to be enormous. They the set was then limited to 100mph. Is that no longer the case?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    This is really disappointing considering the hype around using HSTs when thefanchisse ws renewed.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2016
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The 1st interiors are very high quality - probably the best on the railway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I don't believe so - pretty sure that the one I was on exceeded 100mph, though it took ages to get there.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2016
  10. D6975

    D6975 Established Member

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    Earlier this year I was on a HST from Padd to Bristol TM when the front power car burst on departure from Padd. The journey to TM took an extra 20 mins.
     
  11. SkinnyDave

    SkinnyDave Established Member

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    Agreed, classy looking and comfortable
     
  12. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    To directly quote from the plate on 43048: "The HST remains the standard by which other trains are judged." It might have added "And everything else in the last 30 years has been found wanting."
     
  13. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Completely agree. It'll come with quite a shock to passengers when the IEPs arrive. You've never had it so good comes to mind.
     

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  14. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Nor would I decribe the standard class tables as tiny and unfit for purpose. The fold down ones have the extenders fitted, while the standard class ones are modern enough and fit for purpose. E.g. Here is a TS I travelled in yesterday. Given a light Scotrail refresh and it'll be fit for purpose for another good few years to come!
     

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  15. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    On the subject of the standard class tables, they could be bigger (excluding the fold down ones which are actually quite good). As long as the legroom at full tables is the same as those on VTEC and XC then you can easily have a bigger table, instead of that thin curved design. Looking at the photos the Gramamr seats do make it looked very cramped and claustrophobic but given the fact that it's high density on GWR, then it may look less spaces with the lower density layout with more table bays. But judging by the seating plan, the tables don't really sit at regular intervals (if that makes sense) so sitting at an airline seat would feel quite cramed in my opinion...but that remains to be seen.
     
  16. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    It's a long time since I've been on Great Western, but I agree that looks most inviting.

    So the next headline in the dismal Scottish media will be: 'NEW SCOTRAIL TRAINS FITTED OUT TO SUIT FIRST CLASS FAT CATS'.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    TBH the colour scheme is already workable for ScotRail - a deep clean (though they aren't all that mucky) and set of new seat covers should do it.
     
  18. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    No, as long as they paint a Saltire on them and a Gaelic slogan everything will be fine.
     
  19. ScotTrains

    ScotTrains Member

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    Scotrail are introducing £7.50 1st class fares so it'll not just be fat cats travelling in 1st!

    Scotrail 1st class really needs a revamp. It's currently pathetic compared to VTEC (who also run on the INV and ABD routes). Hopefully a proper 1st class environment, complimentary hot food, complimentary snacks from station ToGo kiosks, lounge access and cheaper advanced fares should help encourage people to use 1st class. On many trains 1st class is empty (bar me). If they get it right I'll certainly be travelling a lot more with Scotrail.
     
  20. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Established Member

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    Looks familiar. Will passengers even notice a difference?



    fgw.jpg

    scotrail158.jpg
     
  21. irish_rail

    irish_rail Established Member

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    Seems daft that 5 hour London to Penzance journeys in future will have to be made on a commuter iep, whilst HST stock gets moved upto Scotland for generally much shorter inter regional journeys. I guess the longest trip would be say Glasgow to Inverness???

    Send shiny new IEP to Scotland and we will keep our HSTs please :D
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    IEP are not commuter trains. Where did you get that idea?
     
  23. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That was my thought as well - when did the Intercity Express Program result in producing a commuter train?
     
  24. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Since it was spec'd by DfT. The only thing that matters on GW to civil servants is the Thames Valley, because that's where some of them live.
     
  25. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    Also, the IEP won't be heading to Cornwall. The IEP only covers the shorter-distance GWML express services which run through Didcot. The trains ordered to replace the HSTs on West Country services are based off the same basic design but they will have interiors more suited for long distance InterCity work.
     
  26. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I thought when the DfT set out the specifications for a commuter train you ended up with a Class 700. Guess I imagined that one.
     
  27. irish_rail

    irish_rail Established Member

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    That's not what we've been told. AT300s will be very similar internally apparently.

    The more people I speak to at work who have actually been inside the IEP the more the grim reality is starting to hit. From the public point of view uncomfortable seating, which despite what the railway press has said, does NOT have much legroom for those over 6ft. From a driving perspective, it is clear those of us used to the comfort of driving a HST will be disappointed with such basic human needs as the ability to cross ones legs whilst driving taken away due to a lack of space in the footwell.

    Im sure these trains will be fine for padd- Bristol and Oxford, however, im yet to be convinced of how well received they will be on longer routes....
     
  28. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    TPE have the right idea and went with the Mk5s, for some of their routes at least...
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2016
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yet I think the 26m IEPs may offer a higher level of comfort than the 22m hauled coaches!

    I think in the context the Mk5s were the right choice, but I think we're past the point of "LHCS comfortable, DMUs and EMUs not" now. Indeed, the interior images for the 23m CAF EMUs for the WCML look very nice indeed.
     
  30. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Just a matter of opinion really. I'd of thought the Mk5s would be more spacious compared to the IEPs.
     

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