ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[gingertom]

17 sets are planned as 5-car. The 17 vehicles required are all at Doncaster being converted.

anybody know how the extra vehicles are going to be shipped north? Are we going to see a 2+8 & a 2+9 move or will a 2+4 go south and come back as a 2+5? Seems wasteful!

 

[hexagon789]

What is the status of the toilets dumping mess onto the tracks, have all the units been refitted now?

It was only the Classic sets that lacked retention tanks, the Refurbs receive them as part of the re-fit.

All of ScotRail's fleet is retention tank equipped afaik now the 68+Mk2 are withdrawn.

17 sets are planned as 5-car. The 17 vehicles required are all at Doncaster being converted.

Excellent news, there were some reports here and there suggesting that wasn't happening, even with things as they are that would've been a huge mistake if that had been the case.

anybody know how the extra vehicles are going to be shipped north? Are we going to see a 2+8 & a 2+9 move or will a 2+4 go south and come back as a 2+5? Seems wasteful!

I would've thought they would just send a pair of power cars south to collect trailers in batches

 

[Goldromans]

Not sure what ‘shortly’ means in railway terms, but promising none the less https://twitter.com/alexhynes/status/1332663392918773760?s=21

 

[fgwrich]

It was only the Classic sets that lacked retention tanks, the Refurbs receive them as part of the re-fit.

All of ScotRail's fleet is retention tank equipped afaik now the 68+Mk2 are withdrawn.


Excellent news, there were some reports here and there suggesting that wasn't happening, even with things as they are that would've been a huge mistake if that had been the case.


I would've thought they would just send a pair of power cars south to collect trailers in batches

I thought it was always the case that the 17 5 Car sets were to be created, but the Yes / No / Is / Isn't happening consensus was that they were all going to be made 5 car?

Anyway, great to see it happening and another set now back in Scotland.

 

[InOban]

I've seen no announcement as to whether the Carmont train is to be replaced. I suppose it's a decision by Angel trains, NR and their lawyers and insurance companies.

 

[43096]

I thought it was always the case that the 17 5 Car sets were to be created, but the Yes / No / Is / Isn't happening consensus was that they were all going to be made 5 car?

Anyway, great to see it happening and another set now back in Scotland.

Yes, there have always been 121 trailer vehicles on lease for the project, so it's been 17 x 5-car from the start.

I've seen no announcement as to whether the Carmont train is to be replaced. I suppose it's a decision by Angel trains, NR and their lawyers and insurance companies.

I'd be surprised if there is much of an announcement. ScotRail have a say as well - they might decide that, post Covid, they don't need the capacity and would rather save on the leasing cost.

 

[InOban]

I understood that an insurance company will only pay to replace an asset, if you choose not to replace you don't get a payout. It's to prevent fraud - burning down the factory collect on the insurance.

 

[najaB]

I understood that an insurance company will only pay to replace an asset, if you choose not to replace you don't get a payout. It's to prevent fraud - burning down the factory collect on the insurance.

That depends very much on what the terms of the policy say and what is being insured. There's not much chance of acquiring a new Rembrandt for example, yet they are insured.

 

[Wolfie]

I understood that an insurance company will only pay to replace an asset, if you choose not to replace you don't get a payout. It's to prevent fraud - burning down the factory collect on the insurance.

The stock belonged to a ROSCO. It being damaged will have lost the ROSCO income and, if Scotrail decide not to seek a replacement, will continue to do so. That is something that insurance should logically cover. Dependent upon what the contract says and what the two parties agree alternatively the ROSCO may have to repair the damaged stock and/or convert more. Either involve cost that insurance would likely cover.

 

[hexagon789]

I thought it was always the case that the 17 5 Car sets were to be created, but the Yes / No / Is / Isn't happening consensus was that they were all going to be made 5 car?

Originally fewer, it was decided later to increase the number of 5-cars to 17 sets of the 26. The all 5-car fleet I understand has only been a suggestion rather than fact.

 

[InvHst]

Originally fewer, it was decided later to increase the number of 5-cars to 17 sets of the 26. The all 5-car fleet I understand has only been a suggestion rather than fact.

The all 5 car idea would never have happened Inverness can barely fit a 4 car hst on platform 3 and 4 which only leaves platform 2 and at a push that's 2 4 cars on their as platform 1 can't fit 2 5s would be a logistical nightmare for Inverness

 

[Stathern Jc]

Interesting. Is the limitation the actual length of the platform or the signal position? If the power car is beyond the platform end but not the signal wouldn't it be just a minor inconvenience? If signal needed resiting that's obviously more significant.
I'd thought the intention had always been for 2+5 sets to work the HML, would they be restricted to Platforms 1 & 2 as well as the Chieftain and Sleeper?

 

[adrock1976]

The all 5 car idea would never have happened Inverness can barely fit a 4 car hst on platform 3 and 4 which only leaves platform 2 and at a push that's 2 4 cars on their as platform 1 can't fit 2 5s would be a logistical nightmare for Inverness

Interesting. Is the limitation the actual length of the platform or the signal position? If the power car is beyond the platform end but not the signal wouldn't it be just a minor inconvenience? If signal needed resiting that's obviously more significant.
I'd thought the intention had always been for 2+5 sets to work the HML, would they be restricted to Platforms 1 & 2 as well as the Chieftain and Sleeper?

Were/are there plans to either (or both) extend Platforms 1-4 and also build platforms on the top side of the triangle (the line that runs past the depot between Rose Street and Welsh's Bridge junctions) at Inverness so as the 2+5 can fit?

 

[najaB]

Were/are there plans to either (or both) extend Platforms 1-4 and also build platforms on the top side of the triangle (the line that runs past the depot between Rose Street and Welsh's Bridge junctions) at Inverness so as the 2+5 can fit?

There was talk of a platform on the Rose Street Curve (I'll have a hunt and see if I can find anything substantial) but that all seems to have gone silent. Not sure about extending 1-4 though.

 

[DB]

The stock belonged to a ROSCO. It being damaged will have lost the ROSCO income and, if Scotrail decide not to seek a replacement, will continue to do so. That is something that insurance should logically cover. Dependent upon what the contract says and what the two parties agree alternatively the ROSCO may have to repair the damaged stock and/or convert more. Either involve cost that insurance would likely cover.

The ROSCO had also just spent a fair amount of money on the train, so its insured value will not be negligible.

 

[hexagon789]

The all 5 car idea would never have happened Inverness can barely fit a 4 car hst on platform 3 and 4 which only leaves platform 2 and at a push that's 2 4 cars on their as platform 1 can't fit 2 5s would be a logistical nightmare for Inverness

I seem to remember something about platform lengths at Inverness, and of course Queen Street was somewhat restricted as well, so I'm not sure how they planned to do it

 

[najaB]

I seem to remember something about platform lengths at Inverness, and of course Queen Street was somewhat restricted as well, so I'm not sure how they planned to do it

One would think that if an eight-carriage 385 fits that a five carriage HST would fit, no?

 

[hexagon789]

One would think that if an eight-carriage 385 fits that a five carriage HST would fit, no?

Now yes, of course.

 

[InOban]

BTW are the power cars for the final set already at Wabtec?

 

[BRX]

The all 5 car idea would never have happened Inverness can barely fit a 4 car hst on platform 3 and 4

That's overstating it a bit isn't it?

The 4 cars can fit on platforms 3 and 4 with plenty to spare, as can be seen in this video at 10:45 or 11:40:

As far as I can see, there'd be no problem with fitting all the coaches of a 5 car set on the platform; the question of course would be the implications of the power car going beyond the signal.

I sem to remember some discussion previously on the thread that the signals at Inverness allow this on some platforms but maybe that's only 1 & 2 (I certainly remember watching the sleeper depart from those platforms, back when it had a load of motorail vans on the front, with the loco(s) well beyond the signals)

 

[DannyMich2018]

BTW are the power cars for the final set already at Wabtec?

Yes believe 43124 and 43164 went south on 16th Nov so that be for last set.

 

[Goldromans]

Are we expecting the final set before Christmas? And when do we think the first extra coaches will arrive? I believe I’m right in saying the TS coaches are the quickest to refurb because there’s less work to do?

 

[najaB]

Are we expecting the final set before Christmas? And when do we think the first extra coaches will arrive? I believe I’m right in saying the TS coaches are the quickest to refurb because there’s less work to do?

I'm expecting it before Xmas they've picked up the tempo of refurbs from what I can see. And it was reported above that the extra coaches are already being worked on so I don't think it impossible that the final one will be delivered as a 5-carriage set.

 

[gingertom]

I'm expecting it before Xmas they've picked up the tempo of refurbs from what I can see. And it was reported above that the extra coaches are already being worked on so I don't think it impossible that the final one will be delivered as a 5-carriage set.

we'll be eagerly scanning Real Time Trains for the next delivery's trailing load.

 

[Blindtraveler]

What I'm interested to know is that with the program now now apart from the extra coach deliveries and one final set are there any noticeable differences in the specification or modifications now compared to the first one or two that arrived with us what feels like half a century ago

 

[Goldromans]

What I'm interested to know is that with the program now now apart from the extra coach deliveries and one final set are there any noticeable differences in the specification or modifications now compared to the first one or two that arrived with us what feels like half a century ago

In summer I traveled on what I later discovered what the first set delivered, and I noticed a lot of the seat coverings were coming undone, which was a real shame.

 

[Devon Sunset]

The final set is due to be ready mid December but is staying in Doncaster to help with testing of the 5th coaches.

 

[Goldromans]

The final set is due to be ready mid December but is staying in Doncaster to help with testing of the 5th coaches.

Does that mean it’s possible we’ll see some of the 5th coaches arrive before the final set?

 

[Devon Sunset]

Who knows? It’s a possibility.

 

[Speed43125]

Given the lack of word on a replacement HST set, I suspect we will only hear about it either after its appearance, or it's lack thereof becomes apparent,