ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[DB]

Well, to be precise it means Inter-7-Cities, referring to the seven cities in Scotland.

But Inter-7-cities is also a marketing term, which gramatically doesn't really make sense. Not sure how it's relevant how many cities there are either - none of the services actually serve all of them with the same train!

 

[najaB]

Either way, unlike say Azuma, I've not come across passengers who actually talk about 'Inter seven cities', so I would suggest perhaps we just drop it for the time being and re-evaluate if and when we get a full HST timetable running and judge based on official and passenger usage when that occurs.

I don't disagree that it not in common usage, but that doesn't change that I7C is a separate and distinct Scotrail brand, while "Intercity" belongs (one assumes) to the DfT through being previously owned by BR.

But Inter-7-cities is also a marketing term, which gramatically doesn't really make sense. Not sure how it's relevant how many cities there are either - none of the services actually serve all of them with the same train!

Also true. But how many brands/slogans actually make sense when you look at them closely?

Edit: I need to correct myself, the brand is actually Inter7City (singular) - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/inter7city

 

[Siemens Trains]

I don't disagree that it not in common usage, but that doesn't change that I7C is a separate and distinct Scotrail brand, while "Intercity" belongs (one assumes) to the DfT through being previously owned by BR.

Also true. But how many brands/slogans actually make sense when you look at them closely?

Edit: I need to correct myself, the brand is actually Inter7City (singular) - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/inter7city

I doubt there's anything precious about the term InterCity, other than maybe to a few enthusiasts. From what I recall we had phases of InterCity 125 and InterCity 225, and maybe a few other incarnations but that's stretching what most folk can deal with. Or care about for that matter.
I think a lot of people in Scotland would understand InterCity as meaning a loco-hauled or plush EMU affair, used on journeys lasting over an hour with only a small number of stops between clearly identifiable urban locations. A journey where you take your coat off and maybe have a cup of tea.
Using the number 7 sets the services apart as being uniquely Scottish - there won't be many other networks with seven key destinations. But while they would recognise it I don't see this I7C catching on with the general public or being dropped into casual conversation.

 

[GLC]

I don't disagree that it not in common usage, but that doesn't change that I7C is a separate and distinct Scotrail brand, while "Intercity" belongs (one assumes) to the DfT through being previously owned by BR.

I believe this is true. I’m sure I read that Scotrail had to run the I7C name past DfT to make sure they were happy with it too

 

[DB]

I believe this is true. I’m sure I read that Scotrail had to run the I7C name past DfT to make sure they were happy with it too

A brand which nobody seems to know how to pronounce (and whether the 7 is silent) is not exactly a clever idea! It looks, and probably is, exactly the sort of thing which some hipster branding agency would be paid a lot to come up with.

 

[najaB]

It looks, and probably is, exactly the sort of thing which some hipster branding agency would be paid a lot to come up with.

Almost certainly. I would imagine six figures.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost certainly. I would imagine six figures.

It looks quite good to me. I've certainly seen worse brands. Though the actual livery doesn't work as well as it could because the vinyl bit attracts muck and now no longer blends in with the grey-painted body. Perhaps should be redone as an all-vinyl version.

 

[DB]

It looks quite good to me. I've certainly seen worse brands. Though the actual livery doesn't work as well as it could because the vinyl bit attracts muck and now no longer blends in with the grey-painted body. Perhaps should be redone as an all-vinyl version.

It's not too bad a livery, but the standard Scotrail blue with silver logos livery is better!

 

[najaB]

It looks quite good to me. I've certainly seen worse brands.

Oh, I'm not knocking the brand itself. I was just agreeing that it's unlikely to have been developed in-house and wouldn't have been cheap.

 

[ajrm]

I wonder if someone else has the rights to the name 'Intercity'?

Controlled by the DfT as one of a number of legacy BR trademarks, as far as I'm aware. So there shouldn't be an issue, unless the later devolution of the ScotRail franchise complicates it somehow.

 

[hexagon789]

A brand which nobody seems to know how to pronounce (and whether the 7 is silent) is not exactly a clever idea! It looks, and probably is, exactly the sort of thing which some hipster branding agency would be paid a lot to come up with.

Pretty sure the "7" is sounded as in : 'Inter-seven-city"

 

[47827]

I wonder if someone else has the rights to the name 'Intercity'?

Jeremy Hosking and LSL using the brand and 1980s livery for its mk3 stock and associated (mostly electric hauled) charters. I don't know if they have exclusive rights as I don't speak with anyone there these days.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Jeremy Hosking and LSL using the brand and 1980s livery for its mk3 stock and associated (mostly electric hauled) charters. I don't know if they have exclusive rights as I don't speak with anyone there these days.

Controlled by the DfT as one of a number of legacy BR trademarks, as far as I'm aware. So there shouldn't be an issue, unless the later devolution of the ScotRail franchise complicates it somehow.

If the question is why ScotRail didn't go for InterCity instead of Inter7City, I imagine it's because they didn't want to rather than because of any trademark restrictions. I hardly think we're the only country with Inter City as a popular name for anything. German ICE trains spring to mind.

It looks quite good to me. I've certainly seen worse brands.

I tend to agree. Using seven dots, consistent with ScotRail's saltire, between the text INTER and CITY is quite creative and the number 7 looks a bit like the North East coastline on a map. And the area around Caithness, come to think about it.

If the branding did cost six figures, perhaps it was better spent than a lot of other money that disappears into the railway.

 

[InOban]

Realtime Trains - 566H 1200 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Slateford Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I wonder whether this will run today. On the one hand it's a replacement for a cancelled path on Thursday, and it's unusual to send a unit on a Saturday. On the other hand, it was activated automatically at T-2 hours, I've more confidence if it's manually activated.

 

[Stathern Jc]

I wonder whether the ECML diversions between Peterborough and Doncaster today has had a knock on of creating some gaps in timetabled services which this move could be scheduled to take advantage of?

 

[92042]

Realtime Trains - 566H 1200 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Slateford Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I wonder whether this will run today. On the one hand it's a replacement for a cancelled path on Thursday, and it's unusual to send a unit on a Saturday. On the other hand, it was activated automatically at T-2 hours, I've more confidence if it's manually activated.

5S01 appears to be under starter's orders at Doncaster. We shall see!

 

[InOban]

And it's off!

 

[najaB]

It just made an appearance on the York webcam.

 

[Steven_G]

The last set will get delivered before Christmas I think

 

[47444]

5S01 appears to be under starter's orders at Doncaster. We shall see!

Does anyone know the formation?

Thanks

 

[43096]

Does anyone know the formation?

Thanks

Should be HA20, formed 43143 40620 (ex-41158) 42200 42575 42129 43179.

 

[47444]

Should be HA20, formed 43143 40620 (ex-41158) 42200 42575 42129 43179.

Many thanks.

 

[Goldromans]

Am I correct in saying there is only one more 4-coach set to be delivered before the extra coaches start arriving?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Am I correct in saying there is only one more 4-coach set to be delivered before the extra coaches start arriving?

Yes that is right. Today's was set number 25 so just one more plus of course the extra 5th coaches.

 

[och aye]

What is the status of the toilets dumping mess onto the tracks, have all the units been refitted now?

 

[DB]

What is the status of the toilets dumping mess onto the tracks, have all the units been refitted now?

The tanks are fitted as part of the work at Doncaster.

 

[och aye]

The tanks are fitted as part of the work at Doncaster.

Good to hear. Are these the only remaining units that don't/didn't have waste tanks on the network?

 

[DB]

Good to hear. Are these the only remaining units that don't/didn't have waste tanks on the network?

Still a few left - pacers, some 153s and EMR HSTs at least.

 

[Wynd]

Looking forward to seeing some 5 carriage sets.

Aren’t the majority of the HST sets due to be 5 carriage?

 

[43096]

Looking forward to seeing some 5 carriage sets.

Aren’t the majority of the HST sets due to be 5 carriage?

17 sets are planned as 5-car. The 17 vehicles required are all at Doncaster being converted.