SE'trn Looking for Drivers

[Class73]

If you pass the questions it defaults directly to the application form

 

[red2005]

nevillehill that's a cracking way to get into the industry mate and it's also a very good job!.....one of the directors in my company first joined the railway as a cleaner!....just goes to show once you are in the worlds your oyster and if you apply yourself you can really get on!

this is an industry that recruits and trains whilst other industries are on their knees!... yes we moan from time to time but I'd still recommend it to anyone!

 

[DunfordBridge]

Does anyone have any idea about the sequence of events following short-listing? I was wondering if there was an interview first or if it was the traditional route with the assessments first.

I must say that the HR department have not been very forthcoming with this information. In comparison, when I applied with Transpennine Express earlier this year, everything was spelt out in black and white.

 

[echodelta31]

Does anyone have any idea about the sequence of events following short-listing? I was wondering if there was an interview first or if it was the traditional route with the assessments first.

I must say that the HR department have not been very forthcoming with this information. In comparison, when I applied with Transpennine Express earlier this year, everything was spelt out in black and white.

I suppose different TOCs have different views about how much information they give out in advance. Some applicants may never have sat any tests before and not have the slightest clue what's expected. Alternatively, another applicant may have sat the tests before with another TOC or two and know exactly what to expect.

I must admit, I'm also curious to know what tests are used. But I'm also mindful of not getting ahead of myself. I count getting through the sift as a major part of the exercise. If that happens, then I would assume SE would give an indication of the tests they use.

And that's the point at which I'll be searching out every damn bit of info I can find! Tempting to do it now, but I'd rather wait until I know what I'm practicing and that I've got a clear reason for doing it.

Plus I'll be in a really good mood if I get through the sift, as opposed to now. (feeling like a Who Wants To Be A Millionaire contestant on the last question, with Tarrant dragging his feet giving the answer for about 2 weeks....)

 

[Louby]

If you use the advance search on here it will bring up most of the tests, stage 1 is usually group bourdon , TRP- part 1&2, and teaocc .
Stage 2 is WAFV, 2hand, ATAVT, SJE and the MMI- inbox me if you want any info

 

[TDK]

Basically yes. I wasn't registered to begin with so I registered and then it took me to a section marked 'Trainee Driver - Victoria', asked me a couple of yes/no questions and then I had to fill in the customer service questionnaire.

I didn't fulfill the requirements and told me I cannot apply for a similar role for 6 months. I was surprised this list came up for a drivers job. When I applied for FGW trainee driver, there wasn't questions like 'you are working at a ticket gate and dealing with a customer when a woman with a loud screaming baby in a pushchair is waiting to go through. What do you do?'

Not driver related at all but it seems I had to take it.

Southeastern and Southern are predominantly DOO so you cannot compare the criterial needs of the 2 companies.
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Hi
I think employers should have a responsibility to use fair and relevant methods of recruiting.

Unfortunately many potential employees do not use fair methods by practicing the tests before taking them so its a 50/50 scenario. With the amount of applicants there has to be a very strict policy on who passes and who doesn't. An employer does not have any responsibility or owe a candidate anything until they pass the tests.
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Red2005,

You keep saying times have changed. What specifically has changed in recent times that makes this particular test fair and just?

The WWW is the main reason why the questioning, testing has changed as the TOC's have realised that a very high number of candidates were passing the tests because of the information available on the net such as people coming on here, private messaging me and asking what answers to give at interview, this was not possible when I went for the drivers job and out of 100 applicants only 3 passed the psychometric tests.
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I have to agree with echodelta 31. This is my first application to a TOC and as another coming from a police officer background, I'm expecting that I will have to learn from this experience in order to secure a driving role in the future. Fingers crossed everyone ??????

Just a word of advice for future application if you are coming from the Police, forces or such. Don't only display your Police/forces experiences as this alone will not get you through, there are key words and phrases that are directly related to the role when filling in an application, think hard on what the role entails and complete the application taking this into account. Remember the person reading the application will most likely not understand a lot of the Police/forces language.

 

[rchta455]

Good points TDK. Thanks.

 

[red2005]

Southeastern and Southern are predominantly DOO so you cannot compare the criterial needs of the 2 companies.
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Unfortunately many potential employees do not use fair methods by practicing the tests before taking them so its a 50/50 scenario. With the amount of applicants there has to be a very strict policy on who passes and who doesn't. An employer does not have any responsibility or owe a candidate anything until they pass the tests.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The WWW is the main reason why the questioning, testing has changed as the TOC's have realised that a very high number of candidates were passing the tests because of the information available on the net such as people coming on here, private messaging me and asking what answers to give at interview, this was not possible when I went for the drivers job and out of 100 applicants only 3 passed the psychometric tests.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Just a word of advice for future application if you are coming from the Police, forces or such. Don't only display your Police/forces experiences as this alone will not get you through, there are key words and phrases that are directly related to the role when filling in an application, think hard on what the role entails and complete the application taking this into account. Remember the person reading the application will most likely not understand a lot of the Police/forces language.

spot on!

 

[DunfordBridge]

Looks like this screaming baby is becoming very famous! No station should be without one, so long as they are quieter on the trains themselves.

Basically, I have done the tests under the old system, both stages, some of the tests being retained under the new system in one guise or another but I am intrigued to see if Southeastern will deviate from the norm and hold interviews first. Will probably be a number of weeks before anyone finds out anything.

 

[echodelta31]

Just a word of advice for future application if you are coming from the Police, forces or such. Don't only display your Police/forces experiences as this alone will not get you through, there are key words and phrases that are directly related to the role when filling in an application, think hard on what the role entails and complete the application taking this into account. Remember the person reading the application will most likely not understand a lot of the Police/forces language.

Good advice! Thanks TDK.

One thing I noticed about the application form that threw me initially was one of the questions was quite specific about where you could give an example from. Think it was the first 'Our Values' question, where you had to demonstrate one of their values.

It stated that you could give the answer from work experience, voluntary work, education and a couple of other ones. The other questions were either not limited in scope, or stated you could use employment examples. Made me swear slightly though, as I was expecting it to be purely work based. Found a decent and recent example in the end though.

I was pretty careful throughout the application to 'normalise' the Police language. Thankfully, it's quite a good job for relating concentration and safety considerations. Might have lost count of the number of times I used those 2 words, amongst others.

And thank you again to everyone giving a helping hand....the waiting game proper begins tomorrow....

 

[TDK]

Good advice! Thanks TDK.

One thing I noticed about the application form that threw me initially was one of the questions was quite specific about where you could give an example from. Think it was the first 'Our Values' question, where you had to demonstrate one of their values.

It stated that you could give the answer from work experience, voluntary work, education and a couple of other ones. The other questions were either not limited in scope, or stated you could use employment examples. Made me swear slightly though, as I was expecting it to be purely work based. Found a decent and recent example in the end though.

I was pretty careful throughout the application to 'normalise' the Police language. Thankfully, it's quite a good job for relating concentration and safety considerations. Might have lost count of the number of times I used those 2 words, amongst others.

And thank you again to everyone giving a helping hand....the waiting game proper begins tomorrow....

An example of a question "Describe a time where you have spent a lot time alone" A lot of people do not read the question properly and try to relate it to work, I used my hobby as an angler for this question and got through. Just a tip!
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One other thing, not all the advice on this forum is sound and many folks advise on what they think you should do and not what is needed.

 

[echodelta31]

An example of a question "Describe a time where you have spent a lot time alone" A lot of people do not read the question properly and try to relate it to work, I used my hobby as an angler for this question and got through. Just a tip!
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One other thing, not all the advice on this forum is sound and many folks advise on what they think you should do and not what is needed.

Interesting. I could apply work to that one (turns as a night duty station officer on my own in a glorified portacabin in the middle of a rough estate for 8 hours), but it may be wise to bring some form of diversity to the examples...especially since I don't do that job now. Hobbies seem the way to go.

I know what you mean regarding advice. A quick scan through a few different topics shows a surprising amount of conflict/aggro. I tend to accept advice from all who offer it and draw my own conclusions later. Sounds harsh, but can be safer in the long run

 

[Nevillehill]

The only problem with me is that I've not got much customer service skills, I started voluntry work in a charity shop to gain experience, also when I was working at York as a temp cleaner for the Tour de France with the Northern cleaning team helped passengers regards tickets as I know about tickets from my days of being a enthusiast but kept that under my hat lol, I use the knowledge from my days travelling the rails.

When they ask questions relating to customer service is it a good idea to mention the skills I've gained whilst travelling ect, or from hobbies and my voluntry work ?

 

[Pepperami]

The only problem with me is that I've not got much customer service skills, I started voluntry work in a charity shop to gain experience, also when I was working at York as a temp cleaner for the Tour de France with the Northern cleaning team helped passengers regards tickets as I know about tickets from my days of being a enthusiast but kept that under my hat lol, I use the knowledge from my days travelling the rails.

When they ask questions relating to customer service is it a good idea to mention the skills I've gained whilst travelling ect, or from hobbies and my voluntry work ?

Funnily enough, you might find that works to some peoples advantage!

Your a "Blank Sheet" and many employers might find that an advantage, you have not as yet been "programmed" lol

Seems a strange idea I know, but you would be surprised

 

[red2005]

The only problem with me is that I've not got much customer service skills, I started voluntry work in a charity shop to gain experience, also when I was working at York as a temp cleaner for the Tour de France with the Northern cleaning team helped passengers regards tickets as I know about tickets from my days of being a enthusiast but kept that under my hat lol, I use the knowledge from my days travelling the rails.

When they ask questions relating to customer service is it a good idea to mention the skills I've gained whilst travelling ect, or from hobbies and my voluntry work ?

voluntary work is a BIG bonus! it shows that you think of others and that you have done something where the only personal gains you are getting is a sense of fulfilment and wellbeing and that you are helping others less fortunate! shows that you are thinking about more than £££££

hey there's a lot of myth's regarding enthusiasts on the railway! DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM! the only mistake some enthusiasts make is kicking the backside out of it and putting it across in a way that it looks to someone interviewing them that they will spend as much time writing numbers down and taking photo's as they will concentrating on signals and other safety critical duties! there are plenty of enthusiasts within the industry and they are fantastic at what they do!

there is nothing wrong at all with having a passion for the industry....in fact it's encouraged!.....but instead of enthusiasts boasting about how they've spotted for years and filled numerous notepad's with numbers.....use the safety and shift work that may be within your interest ( if you volunteer for a heritage railway for example) when asked about working alone I used the examples of not just driving HGV vehicles for years but I am a keen cyclist and often cycle long distances alone on busy roads where my concentration has to be at an extremely high level.

yes there may be questions where you have no choice but to give work related scenarios but people would be surprised at what qualities that match that required of a train driver lie within their hobbies, they just need to think about it!

 

[DunfordBridge]

Thanks red2005. I used to be a keen long distance cyclist until my bike wad pinched so that would be an excellent example. Cycled for years.

 

[Northernboy67]

Well I have got my application's to 4 different depot's in today. Found that the closing date is tomorrow (15/08/2014). Good luck to all others who have applied.

 

[red2005]

Thanks red2005. I used to be a keen long distance cyclist until my bike wad pinched so that would be an excellent example. Cycled for years.

Your welcome pal.....buggers eh!!.......I need to get back out there myself!......it's all well and good the company putting you up in a posh hotel with all this lovely free food but you don't half put on some weight ha!!

 

[Bradders1984]

Application for Dartford is in.

 

[TrackMann]

Unfortunately many potential employees do not use fair methods by practicing the tests before taking them so its a 50/50 scenario. With the amount of applicants there has to be a very strict policy on who passes and who doesn't. An employer does not have any responsibility or owe a candidate anything until they pass the tests.

My point all along is not that employers DO owe candidates a fair process it's that they SHOULD owe candidates a fair process.

Are you suggesting that because people cheat on applications forms, employers are seeking 'revenge' by creating an unfair test to balance it out? That's ridiculous.

The WWW is the main reason why the questioning, testing has changed as the TOC's have realised that a very high number of candidates were passing the tests because of the information available on the net such as people coming on here, private messaging me and asking what answers to give at interview, this was not possible when I went for the drivers job and out of 100 applicants only 3 passed the psychometric tests.

Well firstly, that change might make previous tests unfair but it certainly doesn't make this particular test fair and secondly, you can cheat at this test with the help of the WWW just as much as any other so how has this solved that problem?

 

[echodelta31]

My point all along is not that employers DO owe candidates a fair process it's that they SHOULD owe candidates a fair process.

Are you suggesting that because people cheat on applications forms, employers are seeking 'revenge' by creating an unfair test to balance it out? That's ridiculous.

I think any employment sector that has a huge disparity between vacancies and applicants can afford to use whatever methods they see fit to thin the crowd. Some employers might use extremely rigid criteria (travelling time, education standard etc), or other's may set additional tests. It suits them down to the ground, potentially making the rest of the process less complex.

Whether it's excluding 'perfectly good drivers' is a matter for the company to deal with in time. But ultimately, they're the ones who make the final decision on who would make a good driver....and until the applicants per post drops significantly, I would imagine that these tests are here to stay.

Well firstly, that change might make previous tests unfair but it certainly doesn't make this particular test fair and secondly, you can cheat at this test with the help of the WWW just as much as any other so how has this solved that problem?

What about the test isn't fair? If you're looking to recruit people with the same idea of customer service as you, why wouldn't you set the answers to your own standards? Your perception of the test as unfair is a matter of 'opinion'. The questions ask your 'opinion' on how to deal with a situation. You pass if your 'opinion' matches that of the company.

And as for cheating, some people will always cheat if the opportunity presents itself. One way around it would be a much larger question bank. Equally, you'd have to be silly to overtly try to cheat. I'm sure recruitment keep an eye on forums like this, checking profiles etc. Including publicly viewable messages to other members asking for the answers. Whilst it would be nigh on impossible to link a user to an application at this stage, it seems a strange way to start an the application process, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if people directly involved in the recruitment process keep their ears open for such clues. Knowledge is power, and all that good stuff.

Ultimately, the point could be made that the people who passed see no problem in the test, and the people that dipped it think it's pointless and unfair. So in effect, this whole argument comes down to human nature. Which is unlikely to ever change, and certainly not in the near future.

 

[387star]

Didn't pass questionnaire probably took it too fast having failed with freightliner after my final interview wanted to quickly get my app in before closing date good luck to those applying
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Most effective = D
Least Effective =C

Thats what I put, I felt it important to continue with the customer I was currently dealing with whilst at the same time including them in the situation, and felt it polite and courteous to ask that person would they mind if I checked the ladies ticket so that they knew I was not just leaving them hanging whilst I attended to someone else, it shows your focused on the job your doing whilst simultaneously keeping an eye on your working environment

B would have possibly been an option had it not been for the fact that you are not wholly concentration on your first priority, and your looking at the womans ticket but with no real interaction, and all TOCS will list as one of their main goals Customer Focus and the need to interact with people

A I thought would be a little better than C because your basically ignoring the woman to finish dealing with the current customer, its all about the wording of the answer you choose, so in that case your leaving a woman with a baby screaming right beside you whilst trying to concentrate on your customer and completely ignoring her, it doesnt state in that answer that you ask the woman to please wait whilst you deal with the current situation, and you can only answer based on the scenarios information

C obviously the least because you have broken one of the fundamental rules, your there to check tickets, and in C you haven't

I do understand you feel frustrated, but there is no wrong or right way to answer the questions, as you say its personal judgment, but there were quite a few questions, and the answer people give overall will give a good example of where someones customer focus is, had you have marked just this one example as you did, but marked all the others and the answers lent to the good customer focus and service, then I think you would have been ok, I cant say for sure I do not know the scoring system, but if you failed then one would have to assume that other answers given did not tend to go with what they were looking for

It isn't just Southeastern either, you will find that all TOCS use the same points based scoring system and its been in use for quite a while now

Don't give up, and read up on the facts and figures on these forums for help, we have all been there

That was my answer for that question without checking here first still didn't pass overall though

 

[Pepperami]

Didn't pass questionnaire probably took it too fast having failed with freightliner after my final interview wanted to quickly get my app in before closing date good luck to those applying
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That was my answer for that question without checking here first still didn't pass overall though

Sorry to hear that mate, but please dont give up, in the time you now have to wait, have a look back through the forums at peoples advice and tips and try again

You will get there, it sometimes just takes time

 

[387star]

Sorry to hear that mate, but please dont give up, in the time you now have to wait, have a look back through the forums at peoples advice and tips and try again

You will get there, it sometimes just takes time

Thanks feel lucky to have passed the entire assessment process so hopefully a suitable vacancy will arise I can apply for again within the max 5 years before I have to retake the assessments

 

[Nevillehill]

voluntary work is a BIG bonus! it shows that you think of others and that you have done something where the only personal gains you are getting is a sense of fulfilment and wellbeing and that you are helping others less fortunate! shows that you are thinking about more than £££££

hey there's a lot of myth's regarding enthusiasts on the railway! DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM! the only mistake some enthusiasts make is kicking the backside out of it and putting it across in a way that it looks to someone interviewing them that they will spend as much time writing numbers down and taking photo's as they will concentrating on signals and other safety critical duties! there are plenty of enthusiasts within the industry and they are fantastic at what they do!

there is nothing wrong at all with having a passion for the industry....in fact it's encouraged!.....but instead of enthusiasts boasting about how they've spotted for years and filled numerous notepad's with numbers.....use the safety and shift work that may be within your interest ( if you volunteer for a heritage railway for example) when asked about working alone I used the examples of not just driving HGV vehicles for years but I am a keen cyclist and often cycle long distances alone on busy roads where my concentration has to be at an extremely high level.

yes there may be questions where you have no choice but to give work related scenarios but people would be surprised at what qualities that match that required of a train driver lie within their hobbies, they just need to think about it!

Thank you for this, I'm going for a Train Presentation job!! one of my hobbies is photography, so I could say when taking shots I have a eye for detail when say taking landscape shots getting detail in the sky ect.

 

[red2005]

My point all along is not that employers DO owe candidates a fair process it's that they SHOULD owe candidates a fair process.

Are you suggesting that because people cheat on applications forms, employers are seeking 'revenge' by creating an unfair test to balance it out? That's ridiculous.





Well firstly, that change might make previous tests unfair but it certainly doesn't make this particular test fair and secondly, you can cheat at this test with the help of the WWW just as much as any other so how has this solved that problem?

Sorry mate but the only thing that's ridiculous is your replies to TDK's post!! Everyone who takes that test has exactly the same opportunity to pass it as anyone else!! Let me ask you this......would you be saying these tests are unfair if you had passed them??

Bottom line is everyone has to take them no matter who you are! Word of advice mate if you don't like the systems that are in place the railway probably isn't for you as the place is full of rules, procedures and systems that some may find questionable but they honour them and abide by them as they are proven to work and keep people safe! If you are moaning this much at the first one you've encountered you will probably do yourself more harm than good should you ever be successful!

If that's the standard this company has set and have found they are getting the right applicants with it why should they be accused of unfairness just because you've failed!?? At this stage it's you who wants them not vice versa! you have to do what they set out and if you don't like it the other 2,499 applicants that apply for driving jobs on average will certainly do it and reap the benefits afterwards.

Trust me people that cheat on application forms etc are generally weeded out further along in the process anyway as if they don't have the intelligence to fill in an application form without cheating they certainly won't have it to outdo human resource departments and driver managers that know bulls**t when they see or hear it!

Sorry mate but all this complaining smells of is you not wanting the job enough! Sorry to be so blunt but just being honest!
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Thank you for this, I'm going for a Train Presentation job!! one of my hobbies is photography, so I could say when taking shots I have a eye for detail when say taking landscape shots getting detail in the sky ect.

It all counts mate! Attention to detail is a very important part of the job so that's definitely something that you can use to your advantage pal

 

[echodelta31]

Well, that's it...the proper waiting begins now. Good luck all...

On a side note, my fiancée (who has a cruel sense of humour at the best of times) bought me a 'Magic-8' ball today...evil, just pure evil. I give it a week or maybe less before it takes a trip out the window.

 

[darren111]

Hey echodelta31, your fiancee has bought you a Magic-8 ball for a reason, thoughtful it is and I hope that ball is a sign of luck coming your way. Dont worry I am no mystic Meg lol x

 

[Pepperami]

Trackmann. .. just answer honestly... did you do as I suggested and ring them to get your feedback? Is so then what was it?

 

[TDK]

My point all along is not that employers DO owe candidates a fair process it's that they SHOULD owe candidates a fair process.

Are you suggesting that because people cheat on applications forms, employers are seeking 'revenge' by creating an unfair test to balance it out? That's ridiculous.





Well firstly, that change might make previous tests unfair but it certainly doesn't make this particular test fair and secondly, you can cheat at this test with the help of the WWW just as much as any other so how has this solved that problem?

I am not saying that the company does not give a candidate a fair process, all I am saying is until a candidate passes the tests the company owes them nothing, not even a right to reply to their questioning or feedback!. The process is fair, if you are not up to the standard you will not get through. Believe me I have sifted application forms from people who are well qualified even with HNC's etc and they have not completed the form correctly, even left out their weight and height. When you have a grossly oversubscribed position you need a robust method of sifting and out of 100 forms at least half go because either the form is not completed correctly, the content is basic Bull or it is not readable!

Companies need to draw the line somewhere and if too many candidates are passing the tests there must be another method to reject these people and this is mainly done at interview. The reasons that these extra tests are put in place is to reduce numbers so the amount going to interview is a manageable amount. For instance many people have passed the tests and have been told they are borderline and not accepted. The main reason for this scenario is that there is just so much information available now electronically that the temptation to practice the tests beforehand is high so therefore more people will pas.

In your case I am sorry but you were at the time not up to the standard required by the company you applied for, you may not like it but it is fact. To see your posts on here and your reaction to the result you got it seems to me that maybe this was the correct decision. Sorry to be blunt but this is the way I see it!
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hey there's a lot of myth's regarding enthusiasts on the railway! DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM! the only mistake some enthusiasts make is kicking the backside out of it and putting it across in a way that it looks to someone interviewing them that they will spend as much time writing numbers down and taking photo's as they will concentrating on signals and other safety critical duties! there are plenty of enthusiasts within the industry and they are fantastic at what they do!

The main concern with enthusiasts when interviewed is that some, not all think it is a breeze and they know everything about driving trains because they have driven a train on a simulator (a computer game). I have interviewed many enthusiasts some I put through some I didn't. It is the attitude towards the role that is key if you are an enthusiast. The question that will be in an interviewers mind is "will this candidate lose concentration if going past a steam train of a class whatever and pass a red signal" if in the interviewers mind it is a possibility then sorry but it's out you go! I know a lot of drivers who are also enthusiasts but they keep it separate from their career, unfortunately I have seen many a photo on facebook and other media of photographs and videos from places they shouldn't be photographing from.

If you are an enthusiast and know a little about railway operation please ensure the interviewer is convinced that you only know a little and the rest will be hard training!