Sharp Curves on the Network

[Mark_re]

Hi all,

I noticed today that the curve on approach to Southampton Central from the North, which is very severe, has a central rail. Is this to stop any derailments from fouling the other line?

Separately, I know the Morpeth curve is infamous, presumably because it is in the middle of a long fast section, particularly if coming from the South, so comes as quite a surprise (and has claimed many lives over the years this way). Are there any other similar curves on the network?

Mark

 

[Tomnick]

The line between Boston and Skegness follows what appears to be a particularly bizarre route through the flat and fairly featureless landscape - dead straight for 16 miles or so, then turning rather sharply through more than 90 degrees at Firsby to head for Skeg. It is, of course, a remnant of the railway geography of the past and the triangle at Firsby, from where the Skeg line was only a branch off the East Lincs main line - interestingly the South curve is all that remains, but that was the most recent addition to the layout.

 

[sprinterguy]

Do you mean a check rail just inside of the rail with the larger radius on the curve? Or a rail in the very centre of the four foot?

The S-bend from Gateshead onto the High Level Bridge in Newcastle is veerrrryyyy tight I've always thought. And an absolute joy to traverse on a Pacer: Everything that Pacers are notorious for comes to light on that bend! Wonderful stuff!

 

[142094]

The S-bend from Gateshead onto the High Level Bridge in Newcastle is veerrrryyyy tight I've always thought. And an absolute joy to traverse on a Pacer: Everything that Pacers are notorious for comes to light on that bend! Wonderful stuff!

I don't believe it, someone else who like that curve! Used to be so much better before Northern did something to the wheels - not quite the same these days. Often was so loud I could hear it at home about a mile and a half away across the river.

 

[PaulLothian]

Thought I'd look on the web and found this - not very sharp despite description, but what are the items on the middle of each sleeper?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2184209

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't believe it, someone else who like that curve! Used to be so much better before Northern did something to the wheels - not quite the same these days. Often was so loud I could hear it at home about a mile and a half away across the river.

I have to admit, I didn’t think that curve was so hot when it was a regular, weekly part of my life a few years back! You had to brace yourself for the onslaught as you approached it, waiting for the Pacer to start grinding and screeching laboriously around the curve at no more than 20mph max.

But, as with so many things in the north east, since I moved away I’ve realised that Pacers generally and the ordeal on that curve specifically are defining points of life in Tyne and Wear: I think it’s what some would call “character building stuff”: You’ve gotta love it! I’m so disappointed that they’ve quietened down the Pacers on that curve. I can get all nostalgic every time I’m back up north, travelling up to Newcastle

 

[Eric]

Do you mean a check rail just inside of the rail with the larger radius on the curve? Or a rail in the very centre of the four foot?

The S-bend from Gateshead onto the High Level Bridge in Newcastle is veerrrryyyy tight I've always thought. And an absolute joy to traverse on a Pacer: Everything that Pacers are notorious for comes to light on that bend! Wonderful stuff!

The same could be said about a Pacer on the Carnforth bend. The screeching and bouncing around is a joy to behold.

 

[DarloRich]

Sprinter Guy -You got there before me!

That could be any bend they have ever travelled round! That one is Newcastle was pretty impressive - you could use that sound to tortue people!

Why was that one so bad - was it the radius or something else?

 

[90019]

Thought I'd look on the web and found this - not very sharp despite description, but what are the items on the middle of each sleeper?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2184209

I've no idea, but it looks almost like they could be something to anchor the sleepers down?

 

[swt_passenger]

The fourth (centre) rail on the bend at Northam (Southampton tunnel approach) is something to do with traction current return or track circuits. Definitely something electrical, but I'll try and find more detail somewhere.

Edit, it is there to improve track circuit reliability, caused by the tight radius jointed track, and is bonded to the rail used as the track circuit return path.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thought I'd look on the web and found this - not very sharp despite description, but what are the items on the middle of each sleeper?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2184209

New type of lateral restraints for the track. There's a vertical 'spade like' plate beneath each sleeper, and the idea is to stop the sleeper sliding sliding through and across the ballast. The previous technique was to use an L shaped plate bolted to the end of the sleeper which had the same purpose, but with these new devices the securing bolt can be released and a tamper can reposition the sleeper without removing the restraint, which can then be retightened with the track back in the right position.

 

[PaulLothian]

Thanks, swt_passenger. There's always something to learn about the railways!

 

[Ploughman]

Crimple curve on the Harrogate - Leeds line is more of a corner than a curve.
Relaid both roads about 15 years ago now with pre curved rail in panels.
I think there are 4 sets of check rail greasers to try and ease the squeal from Pacers.
I used to pity the people who live in the nearby cottage until those greasers were fitted.
Pacers used to power around otherwise they sometimes got stuck.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Precisely the opposite of what you were asking for, but you might be interested in the "Air Line" between Bryan, OH and Toledo, OH in the United States. It's 68.5 miles of straight track - not a curve, corner or wiggle the whole way

You can experience in on board the daily Lake Shore Limited between Chicago and Glasgow, but IIRC the train passes along it during the night or early hours.

 

[David Dunning]

I was about to mention crimple curve . Another area which used to be a diverging route but is now the only main line .
The same at Northam in Southampton too . The main line used to head south to the docks and then a south to west curve was added to connect to Dorchester with the north to west curve (the main line now) added later

 

[asylumxl]

Not in the same league but I think the curve joining London Blackfriars to London Bridge is quite sharp, Also I believe there's a short reverse curve between Kings Cross Thameslink and Farringdon, coupled with a steep gradient.

 

[6S83]

Precisely the opposite of what you were asking for, but you might be interested in the "Air Line" between Bryan, OH and Toledo, OH in the United States. It's 68.5 miles of straight track -

Or the Nullarbor Plain in Australia, dead straight for 297 miles! I bet that's dull.

 

[mumrar]

It would be quite a sound the hear a pacer try St Andrew curve on to Grand Junction, just outside New Street. Also, the curve at Barnt Green is very sharp after a 90mph section, but the approach is broken up by signalling for the junction.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It would be quite a sound the hear a pacer try St Andrew curve on to Grand Junction, just outside New Street. Also, the curve at Barnt Green is very sharp after a 90mph section, but the approach is broken up by signalling for the junction.

I may have got the name wrong BUT Skelton Curve just before Navigation Road on the Mid Cheshire line is one of the sharpest I have seen on my routes seems to go on for ever as well

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Similar to the radius of the Morpeth curve is the one at Westerleigh - north of the junction.
Also the 2 diverging curves at the west of Falkirk.

Neither of these mainline curves are as sharp as that between Blackfriars & London Bridge posted above by asylumxl, but as they are out in the countryside they do seem qute unnecessary, whereas London Bridge is more of a suburban route where right angles are more to be expected.

 

[mumrar]

What's the speed of the curve at London Bridge, I know the Birmingham one is 10mph on the first part. Not because of the curve, but because it's heavily adverse camber, the line from Trent Jn to Sheet Stores Jn is 10mph where they join, as they mainline from St Pancras to Derby is on a left hand curve against the right hand curve for trains going Nottingham to Derby.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've no idea, but it looks almost like they could be something to anchor the sleepers down?

Aren't they clips used to help attach the track sections to the cranes during re-laying?



And for a really sharp curve, leave the UK and look at Bastille on Line 1 of the Paris Metro...

 

[Rich_D3167]

Not in regular use, but the curve on the Grimsby & Immingham Light Railway between Great Coates Sidings No. 1 & Pyewipe Road Signalboxes in Grimsby, there is a VERY tight 10mph curve which turns right back on itself a full 180 degrees. It can be clearly seen on Bing Maps if you search "Pyewipe, Grimsby". The line curves right alongside Moody Lane on Grimsby's Pyewipe Industrial Estate. It does have a check rail, and can see heavy freight traffic down it when diverts are necessary (usually if the freight only line between Brocklesby Junction & Immingham is blocked/engineering work).

 

[tynesider]

Not on the main network, but Manors curve on the Tyne and Wear Metro empty stock line up to Jesmond must also be pretty sharp (10kmh line speed). I've always wanted to go up this line on one of the few charters, but have never had the chance!

 

[12CSVT]

There's a sharp curve with a 10 mph restriction just south of Carlisle station on the Workington line. Other sharp curves include the loop line at Ely North Junction and the connection between Retford high level and Whisker Hill Junction.

 

[TGV]

The craziest curve I've ever seen is on the Central line - Westbound between Shepherds Bush and White City.

On the mainline, the only one I can think of is in B'ham - look at "B9 4DE" in googlemaps and it's the curve next to "Midland Rd", heading south. I've been round it a couple of times and it always seems pretty tight.

 

[142094]

Not on the main network, but Manors curve on the Tyne and Wear Metro empty stock line up to Jesmond must also be pretty sharp (10kmh line speed). I've always wanted to go up this line on one of the few charters, but have never had the chance!

Probably the only part of the network I've never done, along with the depot avoider.

Wonder what will happen with the closure between Byker and North Shields in the New Year? Hopefully might be some interesting movements (in service as well would be good).

And for a really sharp curve, leave the UK and look at Bastille on Line 1 of the Paris Metro...

How does it compare to the former loop on the 1/2/3 line at South Ferry on the NY Subway? That needed platform extenders to allow people to get off!

 

[me123]

Carstairs has to be up there with the tightest curves anywhere (Carstairs Station Junction to Carstairs East Junction); you can easily see both ends of a 4-car Voyager from either of the "middle" coaches. The line speed is 15mph. And, because the line is single track, Glasgow-bound trains have to cross back onto the Down line as well. It's a rather spectacular sight to behold.

Is it possible the tightest curve used by a "mainline" service, given that both East Coast and CrossCountry have to traverse this fairly regularly each and every day?

 

[O L Leigh]

The curve leading off the Newmarket line into Coldhams Lane Junction in Cambridge has an incredible tight radius. So much so that it would get a Sprinter squealing like a Pacer around the curves through Gateshead (a stretch of line I remember from the days of BR). Line speed is something like 10mph and it needs a healthy dose of power to prevent the unit coming to a grinding halt.

O L Leigh

 

[Hydro]

The curve at Dover Western Docks is tighter than a ducks proverbial. 10mph, I seem to remember the cant and transition markings indicating a sub 200m radius at one point (157m sticks in my head for some reason).

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

What about the curve between Stockton + Norton Junction in the North East?
Pretty harsh it seems there!