matt_world2004
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Thames clippers isn't on the map or run or contracted by TfLThis definition incorrectly excludes Thames Clippers.
Thames clippers isn't on the map or run or contracted by TfLThis definition incorrectly excludes Thames Clippers.
Upthread it was suggested that 4 trains per hour is the minimum frequency. Pretty much all LO and TfL Rail is at least that. Chesham isn't. Amersham isn't.
- If minimum frequency is the criteria, much of the Overground and TfL Rail doesn’t belong.
But the piers are on the tube map.Thames clippers isn't on the map or run or contracted by TfL
Upthread it was suggested that 4 trains per hour is the minimum frequency. Pretty much all LO and TfL Rail is at least that. Chesham isn't. Amersham isn't.
But the piers are on the tube map.
Looking at the tube map they are only marked if there is an available interchange with a tube station (Like national rail services) Kingston Pier isn't included for example. neither is cadagen Pier .The piers are also by and large run by London river services a subsidiary of TfLUpthread it was suggested that 4 trains per hour is the minimum frequency. Pretty much all LO and TfL Rail is at least that. Chesham isn't. Amersham isn't.
But the piers are on the tube map.
If consistent fare scales are the criteria, the Trams don’t belong.
The difference is that the other lines (especially the ones south of the river) are traditional National Rail lines which take you from the suburbs to a London terminus where you get off and continue on by tube (or whatever)It would be absurd and arbitrary to include Thameslink and not the Northern City Line and the many metro-style National Rail lines in south London, for instance, the Waterloo to Hampton Court line. We have the London Rail and Tube Map for all that. It's at least logical and consistent for the Tube map to be a 'TfL services map', even if it's obviously not what any of us would have designed ourselves.
The difference is that the other lines (especially the ones south of the river) are traditional National Rail lines which take you from the suburbs to a London terminus where you get off and continue on by tube (or whatever)
Thameslink is different in that it takes you across London, people can use it to get between central London stations or indeed from one terminus to another (e.g. STP to London Bridge) like an Underground Line.
The Northern City Line between Moorgate and Finsbury Park ought to be on the map too, indeed it used to be part of the Underground network and stayed on the map when under BR.
If we're going for the 'misleading' argument, it's certainly misleading to suggest that the fastest way from Wimbledon to central London is the District line via Putney.One could argue, for example, that Wimbledon-Waterloo and Balham-Victoria operate metro frequencies, so it's odd to show tube services from these location but not National Rail.
Found a March 2008 copy on Project Mapping:I'm sure I remember seeing a TfL 'high frequency rail services' map at some point, which had some of these useful services on without having the entire SE/Southern jungle of lines with services on that only run hourly or in the peaks. I may be misremembering and perhaps it was a fan-made map. But anyway, it seemed like it'd be the most useful map of all for the casual traveller taking an unplanned journey from A to B.
Not very accurate , it shows Kensington olympia having a high frequency service on the district.Found a March 2008 copy on Project Mapping:
Depends on how you consider TfL Rail and Overground services on the lines to/from Liverpool Street, because many journeys on these services are charged at a hybrid fare rateIf the map only included stations, from which fares for single journeys were priced by TfL or priced by another TOC but matched to TfL prices, how would that change the map?
Not very accurate , it shows Kensington olympia having a high frequency service on the district.
IIRC it was every 20 Min during the day, and the box at the bottom says 4tph.Kenny O still got a regular service back in 2008.
That reminds me of a Victorian guide book I owme where they warm readers that tickets to mutiple stations maybe the same price but if you go beyond the station on your ticket, even if the same price, you will get in trouble. I forget precisely what would happen and nor can I remember which guide book it is in right now but its not a new issue.Some London Overground lines and TfL rail lines do not accept tube paper tickets either even if the lay as you go rate is the same as the tube. I've seen people get their details taken because they brought a paddington LUL ticket instead of a TfL rail one.
Surely no casual users install a whole app just to plan a journey? Following the signs to estimate what looks roughly right on the map seems much more likely.- but casual users wanting to get from A to B are most likely to fire up an app and let that work out the fastest route, which it’ll do better than by map reading since that often varies based on exact time of departure.
Paper tickets are still zonal fares at their destination hence the confusion. A paddington to zone 3 underground ticket is not valid on the TfL rail to Ealing Broadway. But it's what the London underground ticket machine will sell you if you inputted Ealing Broadway as a destinationThat reminds me of a Victorian guide book I owme where they warm readers that tickets to mutiple stations maybe the same price but if you go beyond the station on your ticket, even if the same price, you will get in trouble. I forget precisely what would happen and nor can I remember which guide book it is in right now but its not a new issue.
I was thinking in terms of single oyster fare rather than paper fare when referring to the tube map.
IIRC it was every 20 Min during the day, and the box at the bottom says 4tph.
Surely no casual users install a whole app just to plan a journey? Following the signs to estimate what looks roughly right on the map seems much more likely.
Overground shown as low frequency on the map to Kensington Olympia while the district was shown as high frequencyDepends whether Overground services are included.
Pretty amazing that such a reduction in frequency for non event days was seen as politically acceptable.District Olympia service was every 15min until later in 2008, when reduced to 20min
Another potential criteria that just occurred to be would be whether doors open automatically on the service and on that part of the network.
Not very accurate , it shows Kensington olympia having a high frequency service on the district.
Also shows west Drayton having a high frequency service even though it's only served by two trains per hour