Southeastern Graffiti

[Class 317722]

Has anyone else noticed the amount of networkers which are tagged at the moment? Seems to of got really bad lately.

 

[IKB]

Yes I've noticed an increase on units I've seen around London terminals.

Do control teams log with BTP to ensure a crime is recorded, or is it simply washed off at soonest convenience without further ado?

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes I've noticed an increase on units I've seen around London terminals.

Do control teams log with BTP to ensure a crime is recorded, or is it simply washed off at soonest convenience without further ado?

Both.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Genuinely don't see the issue with Graffiti... It doesn't affect your journey, and is only a real issue if it covers windows, or the interior of the train. Money would be better spent else where

 

[Bald Rick]

Genuinely don't see the issue with Graffiti... It doesn't affect your journey, and is only a real issue if it covers windows, or the interior of the train. Money would be better spent else where

You’re in a minority there. Graffiti, if left on, gives the impression that the railway don’t care. It also lead to more graffiti. Finally, although I have no source for it, I reasonably sure that there is a study somewhere that established a link between graffiti and anti-social behaviour. Possibly from the NY subway.

Or put it another way, if someone tagged your car, or house, or bike, would you be happy to leave it on? I wouldn’t.

 

[IKB]

You’re in a minority there. Graffiti, if left on, gives the impression that the railway don’t care. It also lead to more graffiti. Finally, although I have no source for it, I reasonably sure that there is a study somewhere that established a link between graffiti and anti-social behaviour. Possibly from the NY subway.

Or put it another way, if someone tagged your car, or house, or bike, would you be happy to leave it on? I wouldn’t.

Agree entirely. It gives off the wrong image of what is supposed to be a safe, professional operation.

 

[47271]

As if a trip on a 465 wasn't bleak enough already.

I travel round London quite a bit (mainly SWR, but a bit of Southern, Thameslink and South Eastern) and it's quite a while since I've seen anything on or in a unit. That said I haven't been on a 465 since early December.

I think the worst I've had in the last three or four years was on a Scotrail 170 in service at Perth which had been done over in Aberdeen. Urban.

 

[DenmarkRail]

You’re in a minority there. Graffiti, if left on, gives the impression that the railway don’t care. It also lead to more graffiti. Finally, although I have no source for it, I reasonably sure that there is a study somewhere that established a link between graffiti and anti-social behaviour. Possibly from the NY subway.

Or put it another way, if someone tagged your car, or house, or bike, would you be happy to leave it on? I wouldn’t.

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your opinion, but in Europe, where graffiti is much less or a concern, trains aren't thought less of, if anything, people prefer the train over there... As well as that, my house serves a purpose to be comfortable, and my place of rest, and fun. A train isn't relatable to my house or car.

 

[waynemorrell]

There was a programme on TV years ago. I don’t remember all the details but I seem to remember BTP photographed tags and compared them. Ended up busting the people responsible.

Think it was the tube in London, not just criminal damage to the trains but trespassing on the railway as well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your opinion, but in Europe, where graffiti is much less or a concern, trains aren't thought less of, if anything, people prefer the train over there... As well as that, my house serves a purpose to be comfortable, and my place of rest, and fun. A train isn't relatable to my house or car.

I guess at times the TOCs have to make a judgement call: if a unit is needed in traffic and there isn't an available spare, it might be sent out and be cleaned off when it's next on depot. Though SET may have the option of sending out 8 vice 10 if a 466 gets tagged, whereas for Northern if a 142 gets done, stopping it leaving the depot may mean a cancellation rather than a short-form.
I think if the graffiti is offensive the unit will be cleaned off first unless it is absolutely needed in service.

 

[philthetube]

Genuinely don't see the issue with Graffiti... It doesn't affect your journey, and is only a real issue if it covers windows, or the interior of the train. Money would be better spent else where

If you are happy for people to graffiti your property then I respect your view, if not then you are inconsistent, as both a fare payer and a tax payer I have contributed to the cost ot these trains and expect others to respect them.

There is also the occasional death to consider, I see to recall a couple of years ago a couple were killed on the District line.

 

[Fincra5]

There was a programme on TV years ago. I don’t remember all the details but I seem to remember BTP photographed tags and compared them. Ended up busting the people responsible.

Think it was the tube in London, not just criminal damage to the trains but trespassing on the railway as well.

I think it was "The Tube" and they ended up catching they guy who used to tag "Tox" (I think)

 

[700007]

Yeah I was at London Bridge yesterday and kept seeing tagged trains about every 2 minutes on both 376s and 465s. I was very surprised how bad it has now become. Are there any hotspot stabling locations where this might happen often, particularly in highly antisocial areas?

 

[ComUtoR]

I was very surprised how bad it has now become. Are there any hotspot stabling locations where this might happen often

There are various well know locations,

 

[BestWestern]

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your opinion, but in Europe, where graffiti is much less or a concern, trains aren't thought less of, if anything, people prefer the train over there... As well as that, my house serves a purpose to be comfortable, and my place of rest, and fun. A train isn't relatable to my house or car.

I travelled Eurostar to Paris a short while ago, and the first thing that struck me as we entered the outskirts was how badly vandalised the place was, graffiti absolutely everywhere. It gave the impression that this great legendary city was dirty and uncared for. Simply, we have higher standards in the UK. I'm fine with that. I would also second others' comments that there is a very clear link between antisocial yobbish behaviour like vandalism, and far greater social issues. Most people don't want to live in a ghetto, and once you allow the scum to start rising to the surface unchecked, you're well on the way.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

I very rarely travel with South Eastern but it I was struck by the number of 456s which had been subjected to graffiti tagging when I went over to Lewisham a couple of weeks ago. I think it was particularly noticeable to me because of the general lack of graffiti on rolling stock in London these days. I hope we're not heading back to the graffiti and window etching epidemic of of around 15 years ago. I know that the sacrificial film over windows has helped combat the later but overall this sort of vandalism makes for a generally unpleasant travelling environment.

 

[BestWestern]

Saw a FGW MK3 which had been rather badly tagged a week or so ago, that's pretty unusual (yes it was graffiti, not the "Dynamic Lines" ).

 

[Cletus]

There's at least one 375 badly graffitied too.

 

[RichJF]

I've noticed an increase over on Southern too recently. There's a reply in the TL class 700 forum with a picture of one completely covered. I've also spotted two 377's with the entire carriage tagged below the window line recently as well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I very rarely travel with South Eastern but it I was struck by the number of 456s which had been subjected to graffiti tagging when I went over to Lewisham a couple of weeks ago. I think it was particularly noticeable to me because of the general lack of graffiti on rolling stock in London these days. I hope we're not heading back to the graffiti and window etching epidemic of of around 15 years ago. I know that the sacrificial film over windows has helped combat the later but overall this sort of vandalism makes for a generally unpleasant travelling environment.

Though the banlieues (spelling?) of Paris are "ghettos" almost as a matter of policy. In their case it's not a bug, it's a feature! Contrast with German cities which have long had a graffiti culture to rival Paris or Brussels but far less of the deprivation (since reunification, anyway) and associated anti-social behaviour.

It does seem that in GB we experience regular peaks and troughs of trains being tagged, so perhaps we're in a "peak" at the moment.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There are various well know locations,

And plenty of scrotes around south east London who would do this sort of thing. Probably happened when schools were shut due to the recent snow

 

[Silver Cobra]

While it's not involving a class 465, I recall seeing a class 700 (700/1 I think; didn't catch the unit number) at Three Bridges on my way back from Brighton to St Pancras on Saturday February 24th where the entire side of rear DMCO was covered in grafitti, including over the windows. I didn't see if it was over the cab windscreen as well. Nevertheless, to see a fairly new train that covered in grafitti, it's crazy. A while ago I saw a GN class 387 with a small amount of grafitti on it, but nothing as bad as this 700 was.

 

[Class 317722]

Yes there is a few graffitied class 375 units at the moment. 927 was sat waiting for me with grafitti on it this morning. Which is a shame as I’m particularly fond of that unit.

 

[theking]

London overground is having an increase in graffitti aswell

 

[adrock1976]

As it appears to be common that the classes of trains affected for this spell of graffiti artists all appear to run on third rail, I am basing this on the assumption that there is a gang operating south of the mighty Thames.

 

[BestWestern]

As it appears to be common that the classes of trains affected for this spell of graffiti artists all appear to run on third rail, I am basing this on the assumption that there is a gang operating south of the mighty Thames.

The handy thing about graffiti scumbags of course is that once you catch them, the full extent of their crimes is pretty easy to identify!

 

[goblinuser]

It's due to the police budgets being cut. Someone graffing a train simply isn't high enough priority to get a fast response. Same goes for if you are being burgled.

 

[BestWestern]

It's due to the police budgets being cut. Someone graffing a train simply isn't high enough priority to get a fast response. Same goes for if you are being burgled.

Indeed, particularly as it's the ever-stretched BTP. I do think there's also an element of it being partly a TOC's responsibility to make locations suitably secure, bearing in mind there are certain places where it seems to happen all the time.

 

[fairysdad]

As if a trip on a 465 wasn't bleak enough already.

I travel round London quite a bit (mainly SWR, but a bit of Southern, Thameslink and South Eastern) and it's quite a while since I've seen anything on or in a unit. That said I haven't been on a 465 since early December.

I think the worst I've had in the last three or four years was on a Scotrail 170 in service at Perth which had been done over in Aberdeen. Urban.

Seen a couple of SWR 455s with the remains of some graffiti on them - not even 'real' graffiti, just painted lines on the side of the train. I know it's not units, but I also reckon the approach into Claphan Junction has seen more tagging going on.

I must admit, I'm in two minds about graffiti - on one side, mindless tagging is a pain and destructive (particularly when it's just somebody's name written in white paint), but on the other, some graffiti is actually pretty impressive... just not on the sides of our trains please!

 

[driver_m]

Loads of underground units on the Watford DC lines seem to have been attacked recently after a long lull when they were left alone. Have a load of these wasters been released from the nick and gone straight back to their old habits. Very annoying to also remember that when the Olympics were on, there was no graffiti at all on London's linesides, but then went straight back to how it was once it was over .. Just shows NR could contain it, but don't show any willing to care about their property .