Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[D7666]

I think the withdrawals of the 313s will mean the oldest trains in regular normal service will be the 125s with ScotRail, and maybe Cross Country and GWR briefly.

As further down the thread after that post, older LU stock as been suggested, then for the "oldest trains in regular normal service" I will nominate the Hythe Pier railway, which is a "normal service", is part of the local transport network and is not a preserved operation.

End of digression from topic.

 

[LudwigTails]

nope. they changed the designation to the NR ECTS testbed as it retains several 'as built' features, which its southern refurbed sisters no longer have

so 201 wont be preserved. Yikes. at least one other member would right?

 

[Class15]

nope. they changed the designation to the NR ECTS testbed as it retains several 'as built' features, which its southern refurbed sisters no longer have

Understood, I assume that the NR unit would be painted in BR blue and grey?

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

Understood, I assume that the NR unit would be painted in BR blue and grey?

Probably, but preserving the network rail clas 313 (313121) would be overall less work because they only need to refresh many of the interiors as opposed to ripping them out entirely, as would be the case with 313201 with its southern interior.

 

[33021]

The NR 313 is not that easy, it has a toilet fitted for example !! Only PEP that ever has

 

[315801]

At least there would be provision for passengers to go if they needed to without having to get off.

 

[XAM2175]

The NR 313 is not that easy, it has a toilet fitted for example !! Only PEP that ever has

The view is that 313121 is in an overall condition that is closer to that as-built, in the sense that it still has the original seats and AC running gear, and that this is of greater 'value' than 313201 simply being the first built. Remember that the dual-voltage capability is the 313's entire raison d'être, even though subsequent classes didn't need it.

There is a potential further argument that 313121's use as an ERTMS test train is also of some historic note.

 

[Class15]

Pity though that 201 is being scrapped.

 

[that1pepfan]

Hello, today's football at the amex specials will be in the hands of 313203 & 313220

 

[Arch9enius]

Yesterday 205 was working between Bognor and Littlehampton, and 220 was doing Brighton to Seahaven, which is similarly dogeared. This will probably de the same the next couple of weekend.

I wonder if a train meets the ferry at Dieppe? That sort of interconnectedness is going out of fashion.

 

[bramling]

The view is that 313121 is in an overall condition that is closer to that as-built, in the sense that it still has the original seats and AC running gear, and that this is of greater 'value' than 313201 simply being the first built. Remember that the dual-voltage capability is the 313's entire raison d'être, even though subsequent classes didn't need it.

There is a potential further argument that 313121's use as an ERTMS test train is also of some historic note.

I still don’t get why one of the three GN units which retained their original seats wasn’t preserved. They were in pretty much original condition, and had been hacked around like 121. All three of these units went to Sims pretty much immediately upon withdrawal.

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

I still don’t get why one of the three GN units which retained their original seats wasn’t preserved. They were in pretty much original condition, and had been hacked around like 121. All three of these units went to Sims pretty much immediately upon withdrawal.

I think by that point it was already decided that 313201 would be preserved, and maybe at that time they assumed that it would be worth the costs of restoring it to original condition. Since then, a lot has happened (including COVID), which meant they reconsidered and changed their mind to 313121, possibly (although I am not absolutely certain) on cost ground for converting that unit back to original condition compared to 313201. In 2019, they may have also chosen 313201 because it had already been repainted in BR blue livery (although slightly modified, but they probably planned to fix that at the railway museum), and was the oldest unit as well, hence why that was chosen than a 313/0. In retrospect, they would have chosen one of GN's units, but they probably had different thoughts on preservation then. All my presumption however, so I am not 100% certain on any of this.

 

[D7666]

I still don’t get why one of the three GN units which retained their original seats wasn’t preserved.

Perhaps one reason is - if you consider that so important - you did not start a GN313 preservation fund to buy one and/or suggest it to NRM / owning rosco / other parties, at the time, when they were available, in working order, before disposal ?

I doubt it is any deeper an issue than no-one thought about it at the time.

Did you or anyone else buy a full set of the original 313s seats (the same type that were still in 315s even this year) in order to restore a 313 with those seats to at least one car. I bet not. Because no-one thought about it at the time.

 

[43066]

As further down the thread after that post, older LU stock as been suggested, then for the "oldest trains in regular normal service" I will nominate the Hythe Pier railway, which is a "normal service", is part of the local transport network and is not a preserved operation.

I wonder whether a case could be made that Brighton’s Volk’s electric railway (opened in 1883) beats this. It’s still a normal service albeit seasonal. It’s described as a “heritage railway” but basically runs in the same way and with the same stock it has always had.

Appreciate it’s off topic so perhaps the mods might split into a different thread if they feel it would generate sufficient interest.

 

[D7666]

I wonder whether a case could be made that Brighton’s Volk’s electric railway (opened in 1883) beats this. It’s still a normal service albeit seasonal. It’s described as a “heritage railway” but basically runs in the same way and with the same stock it has always had.

Appreciate it’s off topic so perhaps the mods might split into a different thread if they feel it would generate sufficient interest.

Indedly off topic so one liine : Volks is not part of a public transport network, it is a stand alone affair for entertainment.

 

[prod_pep]

The 313201/208 move this week is for storage at Eastleigh, not immediate scrap. There is still a possibility someone will save at least part of 313201 but I doubt it, sadly. It is laughable that a glut of naff Pacers were preserved but to get just one 313 over the line is a mighty struggle, but that's EMU preservation in a nutshell.

Regarding the Great Northern 313/1s, for those who do take an interest in numbers, an opportunity was missed to save the 313 with the most interesting life: 313134. It managed spells on the GN, North London Lines, the Essex Coast, the Bed-Pan line, West Anglia locals from Liverpool Street and even a couple of days on the Euston - Milton Keynes stopping service when the 321s were sidelined in September 2003. It also spent a period as a two car set on the Croxley Green branch whilst its trailer was used in test bed unit 316999. It was the first in Silverlink livery and the only 313 to receive two different names in its life: The Hackney Empire and City of London. Quite a life considering many 313s spent their entire careers on the GN and nowhere else.

Worth noting as well that reportedly the NRM had a full set of seats out of 315853 when that went for scrap, so replacing 313201's seating wouldn't be an issue. It would still lack the pantograph of course, but the history of the unit alone makes it worthy of preservation.

 

[The_Train]

It is laughable that a glut of naff Pacers were preserved but to get just one 313 over the line is a mighty struggle, but that's EMU preservation in a nutshell.

Why is it laughable? Pacers can run under their own power in heritage preservation whereas EMU's cannot - that is the simple problem with the preservation of units that require electricity to power them

 

[rustbucket]

Why is it laughable? Pacers can run under their own power in heritage preservation whereas EMU's cannot - that is the simple problem with the preservation of units that require electricity to power them

And because the pacers were very lightweight they were sold cheap, as scrap value was a lot less...

 

[LudwigTails]

And because the pacers were very lightweight they were sold cheap, as scrap value was a lot less...

can that be said the same for.... pretty much any other class 313/2 that lost their original built stuff?
Heck just somehow find or make a new pantagraph for 201 in prevention there we go. it can run under eletrcity again.
Still 201 is worth preserving beacause its the first of the 313.

 

[Sm5]

Cant a pantograph be sourced from something else ? another unit ?

A 313 with ohle and pantograph might make a great little branchline railtour unit.

 

[Fincra5]

can that be said the same for.... pretty much any other class 313/2 that lost their original built stuff?
Heck just somehow find or make a new pantagraph for 201 in prevention there we go. it can run under eletrcity again.
Still 201 is worth preserving beacause its the first of the 313.

201 is too modified to just simply add a pantograph .

If you wanted an EMU in Preservation, it needs to be powered by Batteries or an extra source, like an MLV + 4VEP for example.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Move in for 313.201/208 to Eastleigh Arlington - looks like under their own power?

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 0942 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) | 10/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 0942 departure from Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) on 10/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Dart34518]

Move in for 313.201/208 to Eastleigh Arlington - looks like under their own power?

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 0942 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) | 10/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 0942 departure from Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) on 10/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yep, plan has always been that the remaining units will go under their own power.

 

[Anonymous10]

can that be said the same for.... pretty much any other class 313/2 that lost their original built stuff?
Heck just somehow find or make a new pantagraph for 201 in prevention there we go. it can run under eletrcity again.
Still 201 is worth preserving beacause its the first of the 313.

Arguably they likely have alot of valuable copper and wiring which increases their value

 

[Sun Chariot]

Move in for 313.201/208 to Eastleigh Arlington - looks like under their own power?

Realtime Trains | 5Z01 0942 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) | 10/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z01 0942 departure from Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg) on 10/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Indeed - here passing my locality half an hour ago.

A sense of irony, 201 + 208 today at the same location I'd expected to see them on 29th April, on the Sussex Rambler... (posts 1028 and 1030)

 

[Deepgreen]

Yep, plan has always been that the remaining units will go under their own power.

Good grief, what is the railway coming to when units can move themselves to scrap (even if via 'storage')?!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Good grief, what is the railway coming to when units can move themselves to scrap (even if via 'storage')?!

And, even more ironically, self powered unlike a shiny new 701.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Good grief, what is the railway coming to when units can move themselves to scrap (even if via 'storage')?!

And, even more ironically, self powered unlike a shiny new 701.

Maybe because the 313's "work" - mind you; they've had over 40 years of practice

 

[sharpinf]

313211 has just gone to Selhurst from Lovers Walk working under this 5Z57 VSTP Headcode. Seen passing East Croydon

Realtime Trains | 5Z57 1340 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Selhurst T&R.S.M.D | 10/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z57 1340 departure from Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Selhurst T&R.S.M.D on 10/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Islineclear3_1]

313211 has just gone to Selhurst from Lovers Walk working under this 5Z57 VSTP Headcode. Seen passing East Croydon

Realtime Trains | 5Z57 1340 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Selhurst T&R.S.M.D | 10/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z57 1340 departure from Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Selhurst T&R.S.M.D on 10/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That's very interesting - wonder what for. Can't imagine it's for tyre tuning when there's only 10 days left in service....