Sprinter preservation?

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Bittern

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It seems the Sprinter family is getting on a bit now. Sad for me as the two Sprinter classes I've got to know over the years (156 and 158) can both hold the mantle as my favorite DMUs. I just love those girls!

Is it not about time we thought about saving one? If so, and if we were restricted to one, what would be the best example to save?

My guess would be the 156. They're currently a common sight practically all over, aren't they?

Hopefully one day, we can recreate this. :)
 
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anthony263

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I dont think there will be a chance of preserving any sprinters and time soon.

A pacer perhaps towards 2020 but unless a very large order is put in for class 172's or other dmu to replace some of the sprinters it will be a while before any are withdrawn.
 

ainsworth74

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I think Sprinters should be preserved they were an important part of the rolling stock history of the UK (end of widespread LHCS on local services and the replacement for a lot of 1st Gen DMUs). I would hope that we would manage to preserve an example of each type of Sprinter (certainly at least 150, 156 and 158 as they are the major different types). However having said that as Anthony says I doubt we will see many or indeed any Sprinters going towards the scrapheap anytime before 2020 at the earliest. So we have some time yet before we need to worry about preservation I would have thought.
 

rail-britain

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Interesting notion; preserve one each of a Class 150 and 156, but wouldn't touch a 158

I would certainly support a Class 156 in original SuperSprinter livery
 

ainsworth74

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No-one wants to save a 155 or 153?
Maybe a 153 as they are almost certainly going to be the last single car unit on the railway (I'm not counting the 139 as it's limited in where it can go). But to be honest the 155 has always struck me as being pretty similar to a 156 (perhaps a 155 is a little more commuter like) and if I had to choose between the two then I would pick the 156.

Having said that I do agree with 142094 in that if at all possible an example of all classes should be preserved.
 

rail-britain

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to be honest the 155 has always struck me as being pretty similar to a 156 (perhaps a 155 is a little more commuter like)
They are quite different
The Class 155 suffered an issue prior to introduction, unlike the Class 156 which worked pretty much out of the box

The fate of the Class 155 is a sorry affair, which resulted in their modification to Class 153
Yes, it increased service frequency
Ironically, the units are used primarily for strengthening now and there were even rumours of converting some back to Class 155 (removal of cab)
 

K9-70

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They are quite different
The Class 155 suffered an issue prior to introduction, unlike the Class 156 which worked pretty much out of the box

The fate of the Class 155 is a sorry affair, which resulted in their modification to Class 153
Yes, it increased service frequency
Ironically, the units are used primarily for strengthening now and there were even rumours of converting some back to Class 155 (removal of cab)
If I'm not mistaken, the Class 153 came about to speed up the withdrawl of the ageing 1st generation Dmu's used on the Welsh Valley Lines and other lightly used lines. At least that's what was reported in the railway magazines of the day
 

rail-britain

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If I'm not mistaken, the Class 153 came about to speed up the withdrawl of the ageing 1st generation Dmu's used on the Welsh Valley Lines and other lightly used lines
Yes, the fate of the Class 155 was a sorry affair
They were well received (once they actually got going), then modified into smaller single cars so that older stock could be introduced
The knock on effect (as part of the rolling stock update) was releasing several Class 158 units, which Regional Railways then had no idea what to do with...
 

Techniquest

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What was that 156 doing on the Bo'ness anyway? I don't recall hearing of that.

As for Sprinter preservation, yes it has to be done. It would be criminal if we had the Pacer Preservation Society succeed in their goal and there were no members of the Sprinter/SuperSprinter/SuperSprinter Express family preserved. I see more enthusiasm for the 156s than any other member of the family, though why I'm not overly sure. 156s are great machines, as 156471 proved from Preston to Liverpool for me in February, but 150s have that special place in my heart I'm afraid.

So in theory, we'd ideally have all of these preserved with at least one member of each class saved: 150, 153, 155, 156 and 158. Quite simple I should think that should be, although for just one group I suspect that would be impossible to achieve. I'm all in favour of Sprinter preservation though, and if anyone fancies getting a group together then I'll definitely join up.

As for not needing to worry about it all too much yet, I don't agree. The sooner things are started, the sooner and easier things will happen. Yes there probably won't be any withdrawals yet for a long time, 10 years minimum, but in 10 years a lot could be organised, a lot of fundraising could get going. Without a shadow of a doubt, buying up just a 153 is bound to be expensive even when it's withdrawn, so balls need to start rolling.

Plus there is one thing that would have to be seriously considered. The aforementioned list of classes to save is 9 vehicles in total, so whilst it's not a huge amount where would they all be based? I suspect it would be nigh on impossible to find room for them all on one railway, certainly on one which is relatively easy for people to get to. One only needs to look at the problems most railways have with finding cover for their existing diesel departments to realise the enormity of the challenge here.

Consider me signed up for getting involved in Sprinter preservation though! :D
 

YorkshireBear

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Making a 153 DDA compliant is expensive so its either turn it into a 2 or 3 car 155 or i dont think they will get done.

Back to topic i think that one of all should be preserved at least, they represent a major part of history in the railways of the UK apart from the south east ofc.
 

Techniquest

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True, but by the time they'll be withdrawn I suspect the various ROSCOs and TOCs will have got the 153s DDA compliant anyway. If it happens at all of course, they might put them all back to 155s, but I've not seen any proof of that happening yet.
 

rail-britain

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Making a 153 DDA compliant is expensive so its either turn it into a 2 or 3 car 155 or i dont think they will get done
If it has been preserved then it won't need to be DDA compliant
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
True, but by the time they'll be withdrawn I suspect the various ROSCOs and TOCs will have got the 153s DDA compliant anyway
From what I can work out there will be no need to
Providing the proposed electrification projects take place and the subsequent rolling stock cascades, this will allow the vast majority of the uncompliant stock to be regraded (withdrawn or modified)
The fate of the Class 153 is pretty much the same as the pacer, doomed
It makes more sense to simply replace these with upgraded (DDA compliant) Class 156 units which will come available from the ScotRail franchise, this will be vastly cheaper
 

Techniquest

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Interesting point, we shall have to see what happens come 2013 when the wires go up. Or rather, in my cynical eyes, we'll see in 2014 when it'll probably be finished :lol:
 

yorksrob

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From what I can work out there will be no need to
Providing the proposed electrification projects take place and the subsequent rolling stock cascades, this will allow the vast majority of the uncompliant stock to be regraded (withdrawn or modified)
The fate of the Class 153 is pretty much the same as the pacer, doomed
It makes more sense to simply replace these with upgraded (DDA compliant) Class 156 units which will come available from the ScotRail franchise, this will be vastly cheaper
Even with the proposed cascades, I doubt there'll be enough new stock to get rid of any Sprinters and deal with overcrowding - particularly if they're not planning on building new DMU's.
 

YorkshireBear

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If it has been preserved then it won't need to be DDA compliant
wasnt talking about preservation.

further up the thread had mentioned the real prospects for them while discussing when they will be removed from service. Hence why second half of my ppost said and back on topic.
 

rail-britain

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Even with the proposed cascades, I doubt there'll be enough new stock to get rid of any Sprinters and deal with overcrowding - particularly if they're not planning on building new DMU's
I also agree that the many of the Sprinters will most likely be modified
There is also plenty of time for the modifications to be made, commencing from 2012 through 2016

Of note is that ScotRail disposed of its Class 150/2 units on the grounds they did not meet DDA requirements
Presumably this suggests the entire fleet will concentrate on one or two TOC next to each other and their fleet will then be modified and upgraded
The same also nearly exists with the Class 156 and presumably a similar situation will develop over the next few years
 

yorksrob

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Of note is that ScotRail disposed of its Class 150/2 units on the grounds they did not meet DDA requirements
Presumably this suggests the entire fleet will concentrate on one or two TOC next to each other and their fleet will then be modified and upgraded
The same also nearly exists with the Class 156 and presumably a similar situation will develop over the next few years
I suppose it would make sense to do them in one go.
 

150222

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If some 153's are retained after 2019 would they be able to operate in their current form if they are only ever used in multiple with a DDA compliant unit?
 

Nym

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If some 153's are retained after 2019 would they be able to operate in their current form if they are only ever used in multiple with a DDA compliant unit?
I used the same argument for pacers and hit a brick wall...

There will be demand up until about 2025 - 2030 for single car units to operate routes with 40 - 50 seats, the modifications would require the fitting of a DDA complient toilet though, and that would need to go at the origonal cab end (so that you can actually fit the wheelchair in, rather than at the original toilet end. So it would be a rather big challenge, major refit work.
 

Techniquest

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Cheers for the gen :)

You make a mighty fine point, you would need people who know what they're doing with the classes straight away. Whether said people would actually be interested in working with Sprinter classes after they're withdrawn from mainline use is an entirely different thing.
 

Yew

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I think that 158's should be preserved in the original format, and the EMT refurb (unless any future refurb surpasses that) to show what they where, and what they could be.
 

sprinterguy

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I think it'll be many years before a member of the Sprinter family is ready to enter preservation; ten years at the very least!

The Sprinter classes seem to be a basic, reliable enough design to allow for fairly easy storage and maintenance at a preserved railway by a volunteer group; not as extensive electrical systems and equipment as privatisation era units; so I think they'd be excellent candidates for preservation in the future. I think that as a minimum, 150001, a 153 and a 156 should be preserved. I think the reasoning behind preserving a 153 as a reasonably rare, and quite probably the last, heavy rail single car multiple unit as opposed to a 155 makes sense.

I'm not sure about a 158: While it would be great to have an example of each Sprinter class, surely the 158s are a bit more technologically advanced than the others and hence would require more work to keep running.
 

yorksrob

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I'm not sure about a 158: While it would be great to have an example of each Sprinter class, surely the 158s are a bit more technologically advanced than the others and hence would require more work to keep running.
It would be a travesty if they didn't save one. Bearing in mind how historically important they've been in the development of the railway.
 
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