Staff attitude to PRIV Boxes and Dating them

[455driver]

It all boils down to manors really,

I only have a semi detached house, not a manor, or did you mean manners?

 

[Matt Taylor]

requested to seize my brand new Bite Card.

Blimey, how will you ever get past the barrier at new St without it?

Worth pointing out at this point that as a guard I don't know when I might need the help of other railway staff, and other staff are far less likely to help out if you have just antagonised them.

 

[Trog]

I see someone with a Priv trying to purchase a ticket ill even let them travel free too.

Me only bug bear is NR track staff who assume they can travel for free without even asking my staff. Thats taking the mick.

Sadly Clips brain shorted out when he found a member of NR track staff, entitled to Priv. travel on his train.

 

[Clip]

Sadly Clips brain shorted out when he found a member of NR track staff, entitled to Priv. travel on his train.

If they have a priv then thats fine..Trouble is most of them dont and a lot dont seem to ask either and thats the bug bear. And a lot seem to be contracted in workers too.

As I said if you ask then thats fine as long as you have a bit of id to show you work on some part of the railway. Dont just turn up in your hi-vis workwear and think we are just going to turn a blind eye.


Obviously this is a rail forum so the discussion will take place, but people seem to think there is some monetary value at stake with giving workers free travel. There isnt. The trains are going to be in service anyway and carting about fresh air for half the day so the railway isnt losing out on much if anything by us doing this. Unlike other businesses which give their staff real monetary discounts from their own services and I dont see any forums I use bemoaning about them getting their perks so why the railway?

Most staff and myself will always gladly give up our seat - even in first because of a free upgrade - because we know thats what is expected of us and is the right thing to do.

There are bigger things to worry about on the railway then what staff give to other staff members.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Im going to be curt again and say I dont care. And you're right no-one is forced to work in a low paid job and can move should they so wish or are able too. If they want to come join the railway and have a little touch here and there when they want to travel long distance then hop on board - most of us will be welcoming to you all and afford you the same as we afford others.

Fine. The fact that you don't care is obvious from your smug attitude. However, it's still illegal and you are still wrong. The fact you can get away with it can never change that. You can tell yourself whatever you like.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Is it not a case of a clear intent to avoid paying the correct fare when a member of staff does this (which, some 16 minutes earlier in a different thread, you said you had no sympathy for someone who had done this). Should one 'effer' be treat more favourably than another?

Correct, I don't have sympathy, for staff I give more discretion, however my post that you quoted actually meant to emphasize that I am more likely to clamp down on those abusing PRIV boxes in the near future!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I will happily show discretion if people ask first. Sadly most do not.

TOC NE nearly always ask first.

Protected STAFF rarely ask, but normally fill in a box first.

Protected DEPENDANTS AND SPOUSES AND RETIRED STAFF never ask, and extremely rarely fill in a box first. They normally get very stroppy when challenged.

Contractors and Network Rail staff never ask, and rarely have a pass of any sort. They often get extremely verbally aggressive when challenged.

All the above from my experience.

 

[Clip]

Fine. The fact that you don't care is obvious from your smug attitude. However, it's still illegal and you are still wrong. The fact you can get away with it can never change that. You can tell yourself whatever you like.

I will dont worry.

Its people always nit picking about what staff get in the form of any benefit that is the real problem here and quite rightly it is something that irks me.

 

[pitdiver]

I have a retired PTAC from LUL and so does my partner as my dependent. I don't obviously have boxes. I treat the PTAC as a Privilege and don't expect any special treatment from any railway staff. But I have noticed that certain FCC RPI's do tend to treat me and my partner with much more respect than other passengers.

 

[RPI]

I only have a semi detached house, not a manor, or did you mean manners?

Don't you start on my spelling as well LOL! haha

 

[PTF62]

people seem to think there is some monetary value at stake with giving workers free travel. There isnt. The trains are going to be in service anyway and carting about fresh air for half the day so the railway isnt losing out on much if anything by us doing this.

Apart from the monetary value of the money you should have handed over to buy your ticket.

It is no different to bar staff giving their mates free drinks, supermarket staff "forgetting" to scan a bottle of whisky, or traveling a few miles an hour over the limit suddenly being OK when a warrant card is produced.

It is amusing to see people trying to justify such behavior though.

 

[6Gman]

Not every box holder was still in a position to take part in that vote.......

I'm still totally baffled at the reference to a vote. Certainly didn't involve me!


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I will happily show discretion if people ask first. Sadly most do not.

TOC NE nearly always ask first.

Protected STAFF rarely ask, but normally fill in a box first.

Protected DEPENDANTS AND SPOUSES AND RETIRED STAFF never ask, and extremely rarely fill in a box first. They normally get very stroppy when challenged.

Contractors and Network Rail staff never ask, and rarely have a pass of any sort. They often get extremely verbally aggressive when challenged.

All the above from my experience.

To clarify, I am protected retired and I (and spouse) have boxes and unlimited PT on the system.

I appreciate staff discretion if:
a) I have boarded ticketless because of booking office queues (occasionally happens - maybe once or twice a year);
b) I have forgotten to fill in my box (has never happened, but - hey! - us old folk sometimes forget things!).

But I would accept - without kicking off in any way - if on-train staff chose to enforce the rules.

Getting a nod for free travel is kind, but creates a potential problem (for me and original staff member) if I meet a less obliging member of staff later in the journey.

If a member of staff required assistance during a journey then I would offer my help - but not sure how much use I would be! This would be quite independent of any generosity offered!

 

[Monty]

I will happily show discretion if people ask first. Sadly most do not.

TOC NE nearly always ask first.

Protected STAFF rarely ask, but normally fill in a box first.

Protected DEPENDANTS AND SPOUSES AND RETIRED STAFF never ask, and extremely rarely fill in a box first. They normally get very stroppy when challenged.

Contractors and Network Rail staff never ask, and rarely have a pass of any sort. They often get extremely verbally aggressive when challenged.

All the above from my experience.

This, couldn't put it better myself.

 

[GB]

It is no different to bar staff giving their mates free drinks, supermarket staff "forgetting" to scan a bottle of whisky.

Its entirely different. Each of those represent a monetary and physical "loss" to the company that could have other wise been sold to other customers.

Giving a staff member a little travel benefit is no different to bar or supermarket staff giving their mates free drinks (or what ever) that would have otherwise have been binned.

While the TOC may not have gained a fair from the staff member, it won't get a loss out of it if the train wasn't full. The only time the TOC will get a loss is if the staff member took a paying customers place on a full train which prevented that customer from boarding.

Whether its morally right or wrong is another issue.

 

[PTF62]

Its entirely different.

No it isn't. In all cases the company has lost money that it is entitled to.

The only time the TOC will get a loss is if the staff member took a paying customers place on a full train which prevented that customer from boarding.

So if I hide in the toilets and don't pay my fare the train company hasn't lost anything if there are some empty seats on the train. Shall I see how well that argument goes with the next RPI.

Failing to buy a ticket is failing to buy a ticket. It doesn't matter whether it is a "mate" or a "proper" fare dodger. Both have cost the train company money.

 

[GB]

OK.

Train runs from A to B and will run whether there is 1 person on board or 300 and will run at a fixed cost. This particular train has 300 seats available but generally only runs with 280 paying passengers with 20 seats being unfilled. The TOC knows and can count on being revenue worth £10000 based on previous accounting figures for this service. Joe bloggs who is rail staff turns up and is kindly granted free travel from the guard. He takes up one of the unoccupied seats and there by does not alter the revenue. The TOC has not gained a fair but it equally hasn't lost one and nor has the rail staff "cost" the company money.

Checkout operator gives away a bottle of whiskey to a mate as she had done the previous day by not scanning the item. This HAS cost the company money as the two bottles would have been sold to other customers and the company has the added cost of ordering extra stock to compensate.

So if I hide in the toilets and don't pay my fare the train company hasn't lost anything if there are some empty seats on the train. Shall I see how well that argument goes with the next RPI.

I can see what your saying but I'd say if you would normally pay your fare and then decide you won't then yes, the company would have lost something.

Maybe Clip can try and explain things better than I have.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Its entirely different. Each of those represent a monetary and physical "loss" to the company that could have other wise been sold to other customers.

Giving a staff member a little travel benefit is no different to bar or supermarket staff giving their mates free drinks (or what ever) that would have otherwise have been binned.

While the TOC may not have gained a fair from the staff member, it won't get a loss out of it if the train wasn't full. The only time the TOC will get a loss is if the staff member took a paying customers place on a full train which prevented that customer from boarding.

Whether its morally right or wrong is another issue.

While I agree with you (I have no problem with rail staff getting free rides as a favour), the argument does sound oddly similar to how some people justify fair evasion!

 

[SussexMan]

Train runs from A to B and will run whether there is 1 person on board or 300 and will run at a fixed cost. This particular train has 300 seats available but generally only runs with 280 paying passengers with 20 seats being unfilled. The TOC knows and can count on being revenue worth £10000 based on previous accounting figures for this service. Joe bloggs who is rail staff turns up and is kindly granted free travel from the guard. He takes up one of the unoccupied seats and there by does not alter the revenue. The TOC has not gained a fair but it equally hasn't lost one and nor has the rail staff "cost" the company money.

It's a long time since I've heard such a poorly argued line of thought. As a counter line of thought, perhaps you could comment on this scenario.

Train runs from A to B and will run whether there is 1 person on board or 300 and will run at a fixed cost. This particular train has 300 seats available but generally only runs with 280 paying passengers with 20 seats being unfilled. The TOC knows and can count on being revenue worth £10000 based on previous accounting figures for this service. Joe Bloggs, who is rail staff turns up and is kindly granted free travel from the guard so doesn't have to pay the £30 fare. He takes up one of the unoccupied seats now making it occupied, and therefore the TOC loses out on the £30 fare he should have paid. The TOC has not gained a fare and has lost out on the £30 which should have been paid.

Free/reduced travel which is properly authorised as part of a TOC policy is a benefit/perk and that's fine. Anything over and above that deprives the railways of revenue.

 

[34D]

Gordon Bennett - why do some people have such a problem with people looking after their colleagues. Live and let live surely.

I have a friend who is a cinema manager, and he has discretion over empty seats, and allows his staff and their spouse free on quieter days. No contractual obligation.

 

[Barn]

OK.

Train runs from A to B and will run whether there is 1 person on board or 300 and will run at a fixed cost. This particular train has 300 seats available but generally only runs with 280 paying passengers with 20 seats being unfilled. The TOC knows and can count on being revenue worth £10000 based on previous accounting figures for this service. Joe bloggs who is rail staff turns up and is kindly granted free travel from the guard. He takes up one of the unoccupied seats and there by does not alter the revenue. The TOC has not gained a fair but it equally hasn't lost one and nor has the rail staff "cost" the company money.

Checkout operator gives away a bottle of whiskey to a mate as she had done the previous day by not scanning the item. This HAS cost the company money as the two bottles would have been sold to other customers and the company has the added cost of ordering extra stock to compensate.

Two massive holes in that argument:

(1) It only works if the staff member would genuinely not have travelled but for the illicit freebe. Otherwise it is clear that the company HAS lost the fare that was properly due because the staff member's seat was one of the 280, not one of the 20.

(2) If the argument works for staff, it works for everyone else.

Why not just accept that there is no moral justification and be honest about it?

 

[Clip]

Two massive holes in that argument:

(1) It only works if the staff member would genuinely not have travelled but for the illicit freebe. Otherwise it is clear that the company HAS lost the fare that was properly due because the staff member's seat was one of the 280, not one of the 20.

(2) If the argument works for staff, it works for everyone else.

Why not just accept that there is no moral justification and be honest about it?

I dont have morals when it comes to this issue.Its a nice little touch for my colleagues within the rail industry especially those who dont even get a Priv.

I dont see anyone complaining about the TFL staff Oyster which gives them unlimited free travel on the underground/LO/Tram/DLR and certain railway lines - and there are far more people who have these and use them every day - thats thousands of free journeys. Does it cost TFL anything? No. Because they are already running the services.


Its a shame people have such a problem with rail staff helping out their colleagues, I would have thought enthusiasts would understand little perks are just an added bonus for us staff. Guess it must be a little bit of jealousy from some quarters then.

And I think Ill leave this one now, theres nothing else to add really and I really dont want us to be constantly attacked for what we do from the outside.

 

[GB]

At the end of the day it happens, you might not agree with it but I wonder if you would still toe the same line if the guard offered you either free, discounted or upgraded travel....I think we know the answer to that:roll:

 

[Barn]

I dont have morals when it comes to this issue.Its a nice little touch for my colleagues within the rail industry especially those who dont even get a Priv.

I asked you to be honest about the issue and to your credit you have been. Thanks.

 

[Tracky]

If the chavs will not be stopped from their free rides I am not going to worry about missing charging staff, co workers and those who may be helpful to me.

 

[PTF62]

I dont have morals when it comes to this issue.Its a nice little touch for my colleagues within the rail industry especially those who dont even get a Priv.

And I am sure that the supermarket checkout operator who "forgets" to scan a bottle of whisky for a colleague feels the same.

 

[Tracky]

A product and a service 'are' different things.

Consider a joiner who builds a book case for his mate who happens to be an electritian who fits a plug for the plumber, who then mends a tap for the joiner...

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Personally I find the people who are complaining about staff letting other staff travel for free are either Victor Meldrews who hate seeing anyone getting "perks" or are just plain jealous and as per usual the staff get it in the neck, we went through an identical discussion months ago, the same comments, the same arguments and railstaff like myself still watch each others backs (the vast majority anyway) I won't change and will always give a free trip to any rail staff who ask before boarding or come to me at the first opportunity, manners are manners after all, and to the people who will never back down and hate us staff for helping our fellow colleagues, tough! this is the way it is and we will not change. find something far more serious to have a good whine about.

 

[6Gman]

At the end of the day it happens, you might not agree with it but I wonder if you would still toe the same line if the guard offered you either free, discounted or upgraded travel....I think we know the answer to that:roll:

I would actually, and have. As mentioned on another thread I have twice had guards refuse to issue me with a ticket on-train. Very generous - but what happens when I get to the other end and need to get past a gate/ crabby RPI?

 

[GB]

What about discounted or upgraded travel?

Or to rephrase the question slightly, if you were rail staff would you still refuse?

 

[RPI]

I think the main point is that some staff take the p**s, the amount of times I have walked into first class to find someone who works for a TOC hundreds of miles away sat there without asking, helping themselves from the trolley and then your a "Jobsworth" for moving them, if there were less p**s takers like that then I would be a lot more lenient, like I said, have the decency to ask and you shall get, just sit there and you shall get a ticket and a lot of my colleagues fell the same way.