Stalybridge Station - 2 extra platforms

[yorksrob]

Not any more, alas :roll:

Well - it's not as long as it used to be :cry:

 

[bluenoxid]

An interesting opportunity would be to push some services round to Ashburys and on towards Hadfield and Glossop.

 

[Nym]

Theres also plenty of space for additional platforms at Ashburys, it doesn't need to be a popular station IMO, just used as a psudo-station even to terminate services from Victoria, and if it's a passenger stop, you don't need to make sure the train is empty, and you of course provide connections to the E Manc Lines.

There isn't really a shortage of space to terminate services from the E Manc lines though, and any more can be gotten by stealing the car park.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

An interesting opportunity would be to push some services round to Ashburys and on towards Hadfield and Glossop.

Would not the current situation with the Dinting Viaduct and its restrictive effect on train movements be somewhat of a problem.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Would not the current situation with the Dinting Viaduct and its restrictive effect on train movements be somewhat of a problem.

What are these 'restrictive effects' you speak of? I could see the single tracks beyond Dinting as a problem, but not the Viaduct .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What are these 'restrictive effects' you speak of? I could see the single tracks beyond Dinting as a problem, but not the Viaduct .

Every time that I have been to Glossop, we appear to be held awaiting the passing of a Manchester bound train, before we can access the viaduct. What are the current running regulations in the area immediately prior to the viaduct from the Broadbottom direction and also on the viaduct itself. I am sure it is only single track running over the viaduct these days...but I m willing to be proved wrong.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Every time that I have been to Glossop, we appear to be held awaiting the passing of a Manchester bound train, before we can access the viaduct. What are the current running regulations in the area immediately prior to the viaduct from the Broadbottom direction and also on the viaduct itself. I am sure it is only single track running over the viaduct these days...but I m willing to be proved wrong.

I suspect it is still double-track (Quail certainly says this and I haven't heard otherwise). It may be a weight limit, allowing only one train at a time to be on it, but I doubt it.

 

[tbtc]

I suspect it is still double-track (Quail certainly says this and I haven't heard otherwise). It may be a weight limit, allowing only one train at a time to be on it, but I doubt it.

That is the case on infrastructure like the Tay Bridge (double tracked, but only one train allowed in the central section at any one time) - could be the same there.

Or could be because it (coincidently) takes half an hour to do the triangle from Dinting viaduct to Dinting viaduct via Glossop and Hadfield, so the trains are always passing at this point?

 

[Nym]

*Deleted*

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or could be because it (coincidently) takes half an hour to do the triangle from Dinting viaduct to Dinting viaduct via Glossop and Hadfield, so the trains are always passing at this point?

I will state again that the train from Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield is held before it reaches the viaduct until the Manchester bound train has passed over the viaduct.

I have never been on a service recently where two trains pass each other on the viaduct. There must be someone on this forum who can quote the current regulations with regards to the Dinting Viaduct and the track layout currently upon it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I will state again that the train from Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield is held before it reaches the viaduct until the Manchester bound train has passed over the viaduct.

I have never been on a service recently where two trains pass each other on the viaduct. There must be someone on this forum who can quote the current regulations with regards to the Dinting Viaduct and the track layout currently upon it.

Why did i have it in my head that the lines actually overlapped over dinting viaduct... have i just made this up in my head?

I have never seen trains go over at the same time, i imagine it is due to the nature of the switches at either end? just throwing it out there.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

you will "almost" always get held at the Signal Just before the Viaduct, quite simply because the Triangle is Single Track, One in, One out. Unless 1 train has already left Hadfield as is being held at the peg before the Box which can enable a train to go towards Glossop (Or Vice Versa)

 

[Tomnick]

That's exactly it - it's not the viaduct that's the problem, just that the signal protecting the single line junction is immediately south of the viaduct.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

you will "almost" always get held at the Signal Just before the Viaduct, quite simply because the Triangle is Single Track, One in, One out. Unless 1 train has already left Hadfield as is being held at the peg before the Box which can enable a train to go towards Glossop (Or Vice Versa)

I am always pleased to hear from my "favourite" Northern Rail staff member who always gives responses from a staff perspective. Would you think that the idea that was mentioned not so very many posts ago by bluenoxid, of extra services from elsewhere, being added to the current Hadfield/Glossop service provision, be really a feasible proposition (now the matter of the signal stop has been clarified).

 

[tbtc]

I will state again that the train from Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield is held before it reaches the viaduct until the Manchester bound train has passed over the viaduct.

I have never been on a service recently where two trains pass each other on the viaduct. There must be someone on this forum who can quote the current regulations with regards to the Dinting Viaduct and the track layout currently upon it.

Thanks for selectively quoting me so that you didn't quote the part where I said that it could have been like the central part of the Tay Bridge was (double tracked, but only one service allowed to cross at any one time).

Regardless, we now know the real answer.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks for selectively quoting me so that you didn't quote the part where I said that it could have been like the central part of the Tay Bridge was (double tracked, but only one service allowed to cross at any one time).

Regardless, we now know the real answer.

Sorry if you feel that I intended any offence...as none was certainly intended and I apologise if you feel slighted.

I am still awaiting someone to clarify the actual track layout that currently exists upon the Dinting Viaduct and the possible problems that might be caused by the extra train provision that was tentatively suggested by bluenoxid a few postings ago.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I am still awaiting someone to clarify the actual track layout that currently exists upon the Dinting Viaduct.

It's double track, but the signal protecting the SLW is before the Viaduct.

 

[Viscount702]

Sorry if you feel that I intended any offence...as none was certainly intended and I apologise if you feel slighted.

I am still awaiting someone to clarify the actual track layout that currently exists upon the Dinting Viaduct and the possible problems that might be caused by the extra train provision that was tentatively suggested by bluenoxid a few postings ago.

Paul

The position is quite clear if you look on Google Earth

 

[Tomnick]

The signalling layout at Dinting (and Hadfield and Glossop) is shown on the diagram in this photo (yet another excellent resource for signalling photos and information). Incidentally, the photo appears to show a unit waiting at the signal in question whilst another comes off the single line at Dinting.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I am always pleased to hear from my "favourite" Northern Rail staff member who always gives responses from a staff perspective. Would you think that the idea that was mentioned not so very many posts ago by bluenoxid, of extra services from elsewhere, being added to the current Hadfield/Glossop service provision, be really a feasible proposition (now the matter of the signal stop has been clarified).

To be honest not really, even now once one Hadfield gets delayed the knock on effect can take a while to get back to normal, at the moment due to leaf fall we get 7 mins between Flowery Field and Guide Bridge "make up" time so at the monmet its not too bad but when Leaf Fall is over and the normal timetable is back the same old problems will occur
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry if you feel that I intended any offence...as none was certainly intended and I apologise if you feel slighted.

I am still awaiting someone to clarify the actual track layout that currently exists upon the Dinting Viaduct and the possible problems that might be caused by the extra train provision that was tentatively suggested by bluenoxid a few postings ago.

on Dinting Viaduct it is double tracked until the Dinting side where it then becomes single track for a cpl of meteres (Literally) then splits towards Hadfield and Glossop

 

[Tomnick]

To be honest not really, even now once one Hadfield gets delayed the knock on effect can take a while to get back to normal, at the moment due to leaf fall we get 7 mins between Flowery Field and Guide Bridge "make up" time so at the monmet its not too bad but when Leaf Fall is over and the normal timetable is back the same old problems will occur

The signalling at Dinting does seem restrictive (in that you can't come off the double track into Dinting once something else has been signalled off one of the branches into Dinting station, even if it's the "opposite" platform), so I'd imagine that a minor delay to an Down train coming off the single lines would knock the opposing Up move - the latter can't be crossed in front of the former without causing further delay. Perhaps this wouldn't be such a problem with a more frequent service as Paul suggests, as the second train could cross onto the "opposite" branch (e.g. Glossop) before the first was signalled back into Dinting (e.g. whilst it was still up at Hadfield). Obviously that wouldn't work if every train ran Manc - Glossop - Hadfield - Glossop - Manc though!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The signalling at Dinting does seem restrictive (in that you can't come off the double track into Dinting once something else has been signalled off one of the branches into Dinting station, even if it's the "opposite" platform), so I'd imagine that a minor delay to an Down train coming off the single lines would knock the opposing Up move - the latter can't be crossed in front of the former without causing further delay. Perhaps this wouldn't be such a problem with a more frequent service as Paul suggests, as the second train could cross onto the "opposite" branch (e.g. Glossop) before the first was signalled back into Dinting (e.g. whilst it was still up at Hadfield). Obviously that wouldn't work if every train ran Manc - Glossop - Hadfield - Glossop - Manc though!

The main Trouble is before Guide Bridge with the Transpennines, maybe when the Ordsall Chord etc is complete and alot more TPE's are running through Victoria it could happen, the trouble is on that line there never seems to be any "give" so to speak

 

[bluenoxid]

That is a shame. I believe that there are plans to speed up the services on this line. I think that any Ashburys diversions would probably have to run through to new electrification such as Stalybridge (quite possible) or Marple area (trying to get it on the agenda) through nudgy hints.

The opportunities are certainly impressive particularly once the TPE services are cleared out of the way because this would give the opportunity to run a lot more services on this route without needing to four track the lines in this area.

 

[Tomnick]

The main Trouble is before Guide Bridge with the Transpennines, maybe when the Ordsall Chord etc is complete and alot more TPE's are running through Victoria it could happen, the trouble is on that line there never seems to be any "give" so to speak

Indeed, I was just considering Dinting itself - as you say, I suspect west of Guide Bridge would present plenty of problems! Not sure what the capacity is between Guide Bridge and Dinting - looks like AB between roughly Godley - worked from Guide Bridge - and Dinting, suggesting a headway of getting on for 12 or 13 minutes?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would like to offer my sincere thanks to all the members for their full and informative comment that were posted in response to my recent queries on matters concerning the Dinting Viaduct and its environs.

 

[DiscoSteve]

Clicky...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dinti...9063&vpsrc=6&hq=dinting&radius=15000&t=h&z=19
I think here's the answer - the northern end of viaduct is double-tracked only until it gets on to the embankment and then immediately singles onto the old Manchester Bound Line AND then almost immediately splits again either side of the Dinting Triangle - sadly Google Maps doesn't reveal signal locations but from my laypersons view the whole viaduct (both tracks) looks like its in the same block.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Clicky...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dinti...9063&vpsrc=6&hq=dinting&radius=15000&t=h&z=19
I think here's the answer - the northern end of viaduct is double-tracked only until it gets on to the embankment and then immediately singles onto the old Manchester Bound Line AND then almost immediately splits again either side of the Dinting Triangle - sadly Google Maps doesn't reveal signal locations but from my laypersons view the whole viaduct (both tracks) looks like its in the same block.

isn't that what I said?? lol

just to add

The Signal that protects Dinting from the Direction of Hadfield is approx 200m from where the line to Glossop Splits

and from Glossop very Similar, The Signal is just before the Pedestrian Bridge en route to Dinting

Both have Feathers for the Junctions

Simples!

 

[table38]

Totally random question - why is there a plunger on the Manchester-bound Platform at Newton (for Hyde)?

 

[Tomnick]

Totally random question - why is there a plunger on the Manchester-bound Platform at Newton (for Hyde)?

My uneducated guess would be a 'train arrived complete' plunger for trains coming out of the Absolute Block section from Dinting, to confirm to Guide Bridge that the train is indeed complete and TOOS can be sent to Dinting. Could be completely wrong though, so I await the input of someone who knows!

Edit: You might just be able to make out some text below the platform in question on this photo which most probably refers to the plunger in question.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

My uneducated guess would be a 'train arrived complete' plunger for trains coming out of the Absolute Block section from Dinting, to confirm to Guide Bridge that the train is indeed complete and TOOS can be sent to Dinting. Could be completely wrong though, so I await the input of someone who knows!

Edit: You might just be able to make out some text below the platform in question on this photo which most probably refers to the plunger in question.

Yep that's correct, its a relic from the freight days and Network Rail are too tight to replace it, there is another plunger at the peg protecting Hyde Junction (In case the Newton one gets forgotten)