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Stranded

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dr_novell

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On April 24 Southern train decided to cancel the 23:39 train from Watford Junction to east Croydon. There was only a guy from Midland trains and he advised to catch the 23:59 to Euston and change. By the time I got to Euston the Victoria line was shut. I end up taking the northern line to Waterloo and then jubilee to London Bridge. By the time I got to London Bridge the next train was 1 hour 10 mins away. I explained to the guy from Southern that they had left me stranded and he refused to help. I ended taking a taxi home. He told me that the guy at Watford Junction should have put on a taxi.

Question - what is the definition of stranding?
Question - I'm I correct in saying that the Midland trains should have either arrange to get me to my destination and not just sent me to another station or provide overnight accommodation?

The reason why I ask is that I get the feeling that Southern are not going to reimburse for the taxi fee as they have asked for my original ticket and taxi receipt. I sent them photocopies of both.

Dr
 
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bb21

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When did you buy your ticket for the journey between Watford Junction and East Croydon?

There is no 2339 train I can see. The normal path is the 2317. On 24th Sunday the train was a planned cancellation. If you purchased the ticket after the schedules were changed, or did not at all, then you have no contract to be conveyed on that service, hence no entitlement to compensation.

There was also no train leaving London Bridge the following morning between 0106 and 0458, the former you would not have been able to catch had you got the 2359 from Watford Junction, and the latter most likely much more than "1 hour 10 minutes away" when you got to London Bridge, as the last eastbound Jubilee Line service on a Sunday night arrives at London Bridge at 0007. In addition, getting the 2359 from Watford Junction and catching that 0007 arrival at London Bridge would have been impossible.

Something does not quite add up in your story, unless I managed to miss something glaringly obvious.
 

Greenback

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I'm not quite sure I understand what happened and in what time frame. As far as my definition goes, being stranded means being left without any means of reaching your destination as a result of unplanned and unexpected circumstances.

Failure to check journey times properly doesn't count, as I know having made mistakes with reading timetables myself before now, including occasions which involved planned engineering works. Once I even looked at a Saturday timetable instead of the Sunday one. not my greatest moment!
 

dr_novell

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Sorry my fault it was 24 March 2016 and 23:36.

Thursday, 24 March 2016
23:21 - 00:57 Watford Junction to London Bridge [London Underground]
00:57 Touch out, London Bridge [London Underground]
00:48 Touch in, Waterloo [London Underground / National Rail]
00:47 Touch out, Waterloo [London Underground / National Rail]
00:33 Touch in, Euston [London Underground]
00:24 Touch out, Euston [National Rail]
23:21 Touch in, Watford Junction

Dr
 

yorkie

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....By the time I got to London Bridge the next train was 1 hour 10 mins away. I explained to the guy from Southern that they had left me stranded and he refused to help. I ended taking a taxi home....
Can you clarify: are you saying that the company (Govia Thameslink Railway, who operate the trains branded Southern) agreed to carry you to East Croydon by train but at a greatly delayed arrival time involving a 70minute wait at London Bridge (presumably there was no train from St Pancras/Blackfriars?) but you chose to abandon your journey to avoid waiting that long?

If so, I don't think you have an automatic right to a reimbursement of the taxi fare.

However GTR certainly owe you delay compensation and an apology.

It appears they have been up to their tricks of deleting trains again (as detailed in other threads), so you could take it further and contact the ORR, DfT, London Travelwatch, as they shouldn't be doing that.
 

Haywain

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Are you sure that there were not service alterations that had been publicised in advance? It is possible because the following day was a bank holiday, and the full weekday service may not have been running.
 

Mojo

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Opentraintimes says ''Schedule W64652 was not valid on 2016-03-24,'' Raildar throws up an unspecified error and Recenttraintimes just has a blank.

Does anyone have access to historical Journey planner data or pdfs of service alterations from that date?
 

yorkie

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Are you sure that there were not service alterations that had been publicised in advance? It is possible because the following day was a bank holiday, and the full weekday service may not have been running.
GTR do a lot of alterations, not many of them seem to be published much in advance. They seem to think it's okay to simply delete trains without warning at relatively short notice. It's a world apart from VTEC.
 

Haywain

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GTR do a lot of alterations, not many of them seem to be published much in advance. They seem to think it's okay to simply delete trains without warning at relatively short notice. It's a world apart from VTEC.
Indeed. When I say publicised in advance I probably mean planned. I am far too aware of GTR's propensity to run trains at different times to those found in journey planners, especially on Sundays. And I don't mean in the midst of disruption!
 

30907

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Opentraintimes says ''Schedule W64652 was not valid on 2016-03-24,'' Raildar throws up an unspecified error and Recenttraintimes just has a blank.

Does anyone have access to historical Journey planner data or pdfs of service alterations from that date?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125622&page=2
Major Engineering Works out of Victoria on the Brighton side from Good Friday - could well have had an impact?
 

sarahj

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Was this the time when most main line services were being diverted to London Bridge? with only local services running from Croydon to Clapham and onto Victoria. Major re-signalling has been been going on (same last weekend), and thus Southern were running a completely altered service.
 

dr_novell

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The Midland trains guy said he didn't know why it was advertised as the same train had been cancelled all week.

I feel that Midland trains are to blame as well because the guy could have organise transport. I felt he was just passing the "buck" onto the underground or for ourselves to find our own way home. I feel sorry for the people trying to get to Clapham to catch a train to Kingston.

3 Virgin trains pulled up but the Midland guy wouldn't let us on them although he did let a guy on who said he was police without the guy showing his badge when he requested to see it. I have to remember that trick.

Dr
 

sonic2009

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The London Midland member of staff may not have arranged transport as there were still services to East Croydon via London.
 

najaB

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3 Virgin trains pulled up but the Midland guy wouldn't let us on them...
Technically it's not up to the LM platform staff to let you on or not, but rather the VT train manager.
... although he did let a guy on who said he was police without the guy showing his badge when he requested to see it. I have to remember that trick.
Not quite sure why that 'trick' worked as it's not like police get free travel.
 

Urban Gateline

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Technically it's not up to the LM platform staff to let you on or not, but rather the VT train manager.
Not quite sure why that 'trick' worked as it's not like police get free travel.

Wrong on both accounts, as Platform staff we can and do enforce Set-down only services, which are clearly advertised as "DO NOT BOARD" on the screen with a scrolling message below saying the train stops only to let people alight and that Tickets from this Station are not valid on this Train. If it was a passenger service at Watford for picking up then it would be advertised.

The Met Police get free Travel in the London area which includes everywhere on the Tube map, and as they do help out on trains even when off-duty, so surely can't begrudge letting them on those Trains, though most of us check their Warrant card unless it is a regular member of Police staff which could have been the case here.
 

Hadders

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Watford is in Hertfordshire and isn't covered by the Met Police.
 

najaB

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Wrong on both accounts, as Platform staff we can and do enforce Set-down only services...
Looking at RTT I can't see any set-down only VT services at Watford Junction around that time.
The Met Police get free Travel in the London area which includes everywhere on the Tube map...
Learned something - thought it was only in London proper.
 

30907

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The London Midland member of staff may not have arranged transport as there were still services to East Croydon via London.

Though s/he could have been more helpful in checking out a route across London at a time when the tube is shutting down. (That assumes they had Internet access and the OP didn't -they could then have directed him to St Pancras TL).

But that doesn't alter the fact that the journey could have been done and that a taxi was not required. Back to GTR!
 

OwlMan

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Watford is in Hertfordshire and isn't covered by the Met Police.
They can travel as far as Northampton, Salisbuty, Ipswich & most of Southern England.
Customer eligibility

Serving uniformed and plain clothes police officers of the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police only.

It does not apply to police officers of other forces, or to special constables, Police Community Support Officers, traffic wardens or civilian staff employed by the Metropolitan Police or City of London Police, to retired police officers or to any other person travelling with a serving police officer.
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Area of validity

Approx. 60 - 70 mile radius of London depending upon line of route – see below for details and limitations:

London area of concessionary travel map.
South East area of concessionary travel map

Valid on TOC services as detailed below:-

Greater Anglia - Not valid north of Cambridge or Ipswich.
Chiltern Railways – Not valid north of Banbury.
CrossCountry - Valid between Cambridge and Stansted Airport and at intermediate stations and Banbury to Reading/ Guildford / Southampton Central and at intermediate stations.
c2c - Valid on all services.
East Coast - Valid between London and Stevenage only.
East Midlands Trains - Valid between London and Bedford and at intermediate stations.
Great Western Railway - Valid London to Banbury, Basingstoke (via Reading), Bedwyn, Henley on Thames, Marlow, and Windsor Central, Also valid between Reading and Redhill / Gatwick Airport and between Salisbury and Portsmouth / Brighton (via Southampton).
Great Northern - Valid on all services.
Heathrow Connect - Valid between London and Hayes & Harlington and at intermediate stations.
London Midland – Not valid north of Northampton.
London Overground - Valid on all services.
Southern (inc. Gatwick Express) - Valid on all services.
Southeastern -Valid on all services except High speed services between St Pancras and Ashford International/ Gravesend
South West Trains - Not valid west of Salisbury, between Redbridge and Lymington / Weymouth or between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin.
Thameslink - Valid on all services.
Virgin Trains - Valid London - Milton Keynes and intermediately at Watford Junction

Also valid on all London Underground, Docklands Light Railway and London Tramlink services.

Not valid
Arriva Trains Wales
Hull Trains
Grand Central
Heathrow Express
Island Line
Merseyrail
Northern
Scotrail
TransPennine Express
Outside of the area of validity without purchase of an excess fare from the boundary to the destination.
Special bus services, tours, excursions or Rail-Air Coach Link services.
 

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