Striking during olympics

[Greenback]

I think this is the crucial point. We hear of strikes being balloted for or there being the threat of a ballot for a strike fairly regularly (it feels weekly but it's probably more like once or month or so). However, how often does that actually lead to a strike? Not as often I'd gamble (and going on the response so far I'd be winning that bet). Unfortunately, for the Unions, that is not the public perception.

Exactly. A strike ballot is one way that a union can put presssure on the employer to hold serious negotiations. Once an employer knows that staff are prepared to take industrial action if necessary, they will usually come up with an improved offer, and the strike threat disappears.

Naturally, if a ballot reveals no appetite for industrial action, the employers hand is somewhat strengthened! But it's all part of the game of negotiation!

I am regularly surprised and disappointed how quickly some people get outraged as soon as a ballot is even mentioned!

 

[krisk]

10 1/2 years, strike twice

If all other avenues have been explored and a strike is the final option then so be it. These are not called for just for a laugh. Do you believe people want to lose money?

 

[SS4]

Plus of course the railway is funded to the tune of £5bn by the taxpayer. Essentially what the unions are saying, is we don't get paid enough, let's screw some more money out of public funds instead of paying it to single mums, pensioners etc

A comparison the Daily Mail would be proud of. Not only is it not a zero sum game but that money would never go to those who need it, that's not the Tory way. It'll go to the City, the elite. Capitalism is about the many working for the profit of the few.
Let's use that £5bn subsidy to say that privatisation (if it can be called that) has failed! Call me socialist but wasn't it meant to reduce the burden of the taxpayer?

Organising strikes is not capitalist. It's organised labour (a cartel) seeking to threaten employers into submission for it's own ends.

Every day there isn't a strike employers are determined to erode rights for workers so they can store a few more million abroad (you're not the only one who can make sweeping generalisations). The recession has simply hastened it.

In a purely capitalist world, there would be many companies in open competition with a mobile workforce competing freely for jobs. That might even have the effect of holding wages down if there is an oversupply.

A system that demands continual growth from a planet with finite resources is doomed to failure.

None of that happens on the railways, because the companies are not in true competition and there are barriers to entry for other companies/workers.

True dat.

There are times for strikes when there is really no other option, but the rail unions are quite open about extracting as much for their members as possible. In my book, that's just as bad as companies exploiting their workers.

It is but if you were to believe the press there's no such thing as employers exploiting their workers but plenty about the country holding to ransom. With biased news sources it's impossible to find the facts.

The unions talk about greedy shareholders, yet, the EMT strike is about money invested into a pension pot to buy...erm, usually shares! Who do union members actually think shareholders are? To strike at the time when all eyes on on this country, where hard working families have saved hard and look forward to a national event, only to have it disrupted by a bunch of people on upwards of £50k a year for their own ends is nothing short of a disgrace.

Everyone is having to pay more into their pension and suddenly EMT don't want to. In other words they want to mortgage their staff's future for short term profit. A "once in a lifetime national event"

Why don't EMT simply get the strike blocked on a technicality. I'm sure their government pals would love a crack at finishing the job Maggie started. Overlook the fact that these workers have rights.
I wonder how many tickets went to corporate sponsors instead of being made available for "hard working families"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think this is the crucial point. We hear of strikes being balloted for or there being the threat of a ballot for a strike fairly regularly (it feels weekly but it's probably more like once or month or so). However, how often does that actually lead to a strike? Not as often I'd gamble (and going on the response so far I'd be winning that bet). Unfortunately, for the Unions, that is not the public perception.

Definitely. If you'd like an additional bet how often is it implied the union leader is doing it for ****s and giggles

10 1/2 years, strike twice

If all other avenues have been explored and a strike is the final option then so be it. These are not called for just for a laugh. Do you believe people want to lose money?

Now now, don't let facts get in the way of an anti-union rant.

 

[chuckles1066]

Exactly. A strike ballot is one way that a union can put presssure on the employer to hold serious negotiations. Once an employer knows that staff are prepared to take industrial action if necessary, they will usually come up with an improved offer, and the strike threat disappears.

Not from where I'm sitting.

If I'm an employer and my staff don't believe they're being paid what they're worth then they're more than welcome to resign and go and seek out employment paying them the salary they believe they can command.

I'll even give them a glowing reference.

But don't hold **my** business to ransom.

Someone give me the punchline because I'm obviously missing something?

 

[radamfi]

But surely highly paid unionised staff are capitalist too? They already earn more than enough to live on, but still want more. I'm not saying that's wrong (who doesn't want a pay rise?) but it certainly isn't socialist.

 

[blacknight]

Rail workers wanting a bonus for doing their job during the Olympics is out and out greed.

Its not about wanting a bonus for doing the job more an insentive to ensure staff are available for working additional service that are planned, games just happen to fall when staff with children are on holidays that have to be planned around school holidays.
Whilst most of the country are watching the games quite a few on this forum will be hard at work getting public home from the event.

 

[wigwamman]

Not from where I'm sitting.

If I'm an employer and my staff don't believe they're being paid what they're worth then they're more than welcome to resign and go and seek out employment paying them the salary they believe they can command.

I'll even give them a glowing reference.

But don't hold **my** business to ransom.

Someone give me the punchline because I'm obviously missing something?

You are missing the fact that rail workers hold a good hand of cards.
Let's say swt or emt sack all their staff tomorrow,how long do you think it will be before they have a service up and running again,bearing in mind the company's will already have invested hundreds of thousands of pounds getting these staff trained to do their jobs.

 

[Marklund]

The Olympics are for a few weeks. Pensions are for life.

 

[blacknight]

The Olympics are for a few weeks. Pensions are for life.

The Olympics may only be for a few weeks but we will be paying for it long into our retirement.
Remember the last european country to host game was Greece a fine financial legacy they have been left with.

 

[krisk]

Oh please. I get a bonus as my roster and all my plans for the summer have to change for an event I don't care about or have an interest in.

If a company is losing money then I don't expect a pay rise but when it makes a healthy profit and I have played a part in that then yes I do think a pay rise is in order.

It seems there is a hint of jealousy and resentment towards rail staff, I am lucky to do a job I love and I worked hard to get it and successive promotions. It does feel like if you get paid well then how dare you go on strike. It's not just about money but protecting pensions or rest periods or family life and balancing work and home life balance.

No one wants to be inconvenienced but if everything else has been tried then what. Do you just get on with it and not say anything. Me thinks not.

 

[Kneedown]

This is the text of two of my posts, cut n' pasted from the Drivers section of another forum.
Hope it clarifies my personal stance on this.........

"Speaking as an EMT Driver and loyal, if disaffected aslef member for 25years.........

Looks like there is no joy with the talks again, and barring more talks and a breakthrough, it looks like we'll be striking over the Olympics.

Thus far we've enjoyed a fair bit of support from the public, even the Government, but if these strikes go ahead then we'll lose all support and any moral highground we have.
Come on guys, lets postpone it til after the Olympics, or better still work to rule, which we can carry on for as long as it takes and will not result in compo from the Government.
I know we'll lose a bit of impact, but we'll keep our support. Do we really want to become top of the list of the most hated people in the Country? If we do this, then there are people out there who will not forget it, and we'll be in for even tougher times in the future."

"Speaking for myself, i'd sooner we lose the fight but come out of it with our heads held high and our integrity intact and beyond reproach, than win but carry with us a sense of shame that we'd put the dampener on one of the greatest sporting events in the world when the eyes of the world are upon us, a move that would undoubtedly lead to greater sanctions on the trade union movement in this country as a whole."

I believe in the cause, but i'm completely against what i see as a cynical attempt to disrupt the biggest sporting event in this country for many years, when the eyes of the world are upon us.

Regards,
K'down.

 

[thelem]

I'm amazed I've managed to get through 7 pages of arguments, but no serious discussion about what they're actually striking/working to rule/complaining about.

To summarise my understanding of the issue, based on the Aslef website and a bit of internet research:

• EMT operate a final salary which when it was last reviewed in Dec 2010 was found to be 99.9% funded.
• EMT would like to reduce payments into the scheme, which will save both it and staff money.
• Aslef point out that investments aren't exactly booming, so it's likely that the scheme is less well funded than it was in Dec 2010.
• If there is a shortfall in the future, it will be up to the current franchise holder to resolve (which may or may not be EMT). If there is a surplus then that franchise holder can withdraw the money.

That all makes sense to me. I can see why EMT would want to reduce payments, and I can see why the unions don't think that's a good idea.

However,

1. The fund is controlled by trustees, not EMT. If there is a funding problem, why are they letting EMT get away with it.
2. The fund is meant to be assessed annually. Why isn't there an assessment from December 2011?

Main sources:
http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice....n-schemes/final-salary-schemes/scheme-funding
http://www.aslef.org.uk/shared_asp_files/GFSR.asp?NodeID=132589

 

[Clip]

It would be interesting to discover Ed Milliband's opinion re the "Olympic strikes" *

I suspect he can't condemn them and risk offending the paymasters who fund the Labour party, yet he doesn't seem to be actively supporting them either... call me a cynic, but could this be because the strikes are generally percieved as unpopular?

* although it is possible he doesn't post on here

AFAIK the RMT recinded its membership of the Labour party many years ago and as such doesnt contribute a penny to them. Unsure of ASLEF though.

Worth noting that the cleaners who are going on strike for the DLR are doing so so that they can earn London Living wage rather than the minimum wage which they are on now so they are on parity with everyone else who works for TfL. And fair play to them.


As for the rest of the strikes - havent they all been promised bonuses anyway for working the Olympics so why they striking this time? To be honest Ive not long been awake so havent read any news about it yet
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Olympics may only be for a few weeks but we will be paying for it long into our retirement.
Remember the last european country to host game was Greece a fine financial legacy they have been left with.

Greece's problems were not caused by the Olympics. What a stupid thing to say.:roll:

 

[Metroland]

Actually Metroland the railway workers are not always going on strike. The last time i was on a picket line was in May 2003, in the dark old days of Silverlink. I have yet to know of industrial action being taken on London Overground let alone a strike!

Indeed, but taken as a whole the rail industry seems to be one of those most affected by industrial action. I struggle to think of an economic area where there is so much of it, maybe the miners in their day. The civil service of late has had some issues, and teachers at various times. But the railway has been constantly hit by industrial action since living memory.

Why is that exactly?

Is it union muscle power, management incompetence? Is it the sort of people they employ?

You don't see Tescos staff going on strike every five minutes, and there is hardly any problems in most of the private sector. If people don't like their job, they just tend to find another.

I sense there is some left wing politics creeping into it. I'm not insensitive to much of it. I don't agree with exploiting workers, the planet or anything else. I believe in a fair and just society, one with equal opportunities.

It's all very well ranting about large corporations and capitalist this, that and the other, but the vast majority of the economy is formed of small businesses. The whole idea the majority of businessmen are out to exploit every last thing out of workers is somewhat wide of the mark. Most companies will bend over backwards to keep good people, and pay the going rate, or more to attract the brightest and the best.

It's not to say there are some unscrupulous employers running sweat shops, because there are. But most of these areas are low skill and low pay.

The railway these days is generally a good employer. There are good conditions and things tend to be 'done right'.

What I did sense, all the time, when I worked for the railway industry is this 'them and us'. I've never seen it anywhere else (perhaps someone could enlighten me?). But it is rife, people don't work in a partnership, it's about management and us. The whole atmosphere is stifling, uncomfortable, and quite frankly 'out of date'. I hated it.

Why does this culture persist on the railway?

I have my own ideas, for certain I think many people see it as a job for life. Many cannot use their skills elsewhere and are frightened of getting in trouble. This is one reason I think barriers to entry should be much more flexible (eg public training courses) and transfers easier, and qualifications an essential part of the job. It should be easier to 'go elsewhere'.

It's certainly a nut the railway needs to crack, along with its PR problem.

 

[scotsman]

I agree (even though some professions can't strike by law), but look at the PCS strike - only 20 per cent bothered to vote, of whom only 57 per cent supported a strike, so that's barely 10% in favour.

It's called a democratic mandate, and a hell of a lot of politicians are in office on less. So, that argument's invalid.

 

[Greenback]

Not from where I'm sitting.

If I'm an employer and my staff don't believe they're being paid what they're worth then they're more than welcome to resign and go and seek out employment paying them the salary they believe they can command.

I'll even give them a glowing reference.

But don't hold **my** business to ransom.

Someone give me the punchline because I'm obviously missing something?

I am very glad I don't see things the same way that you do! The irony is, this is exactly why some unions have so much influence - the employers cannot let the members resign as they would be out of business without their key staff.

 

[12CSVT]

I agree (even though some professions can't strike by law), but look at the PCS strike - only 20 per cent bothered to vote, of whom only 57 per cent supported a strike, so that's barely 10% in favour.

Actually 11.4%.

Conversely, using the above figures, only 8.6% voted against.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's called a democratic mandate, and a hell of a lot of politicians are in office on less. So, that argument's invalid.

Really? Which politicians were elected on a turnout of 20% or less?

 

[Legzr1]

So is going on strike every five minutes!

Every five minutes?

:roll:

What do you want, sympathy?

From you,nothing.

An attempt to see both sides before dashing to your pc to type yet more knee-jerk right wing crap would be nice.

I won't hold my breath.

most of these "ordinary workers" on are salaries comparable to middle managers and professionals,

And obviously you (and your ilk) would prefer rail staff (both highly trained or not) to be on minimum wage?

Yeah,that would then allow empoyers to walk all over terms and conditions fought for over the years.

Are you a born again Victorian perchance?

tools are downed at every opportunity

You copy that from the Daily Mail?:roll:

and when you do want to get a train it's cancelled because people can't sort things out like adults.

Again (for the hard of thinking); this is a dispute between two groups.One group attempts to explain the reasons why this is happening and is treated with contempt by train enthusiasts on a backward looking forum.

The other group rely on the odd press release.

You'd be forgiven for thinking there are other agendas at work here.

You must be very out of touch to not understand why people do not support these sorts of activities

I base my opinion on hearing both sides of the story.

You?

Keep your 'understanding' thanks :roll:

- it's virtually everyone I talk to, every paper I read, most (non-railway) comments. It's got nothing to do with jealousy, and everything to do with people who are paid (well) to do a job, and instead of carrying it out, down tools and hold the begging bowl out yet again, despite being in the top 20% of salaries!

The same old tripe every time!

This is apart from the railways are not really a commercial entity and we pay a lot of taxes for a service we expect.

Get in touch with the TOC's and explain yourself to them.

I don't think frontline staff have much say in the cost of your ticket.

Perhaps the passengers should go on strike and see what that gets you!

Ha!

If only you had the balls to try it...

As opposed form the sort of diatribe from railway union members on this forum? Or to stereotype like you do the people who disagree with you: The left wing brothers, who bully people that don't go on strike, think there are quite justified in going on strike because they voted for it, and are more interested in them v us than providing a useful service.

You have anything sensible to say on the subject?

 

[9K43]

It Just goes to show how out of touch people who work for TOC's are with the rest of society. Many people are taking unpaid leave to help out at the olympics and travel and accomodation costs can ammount to hundreds of pounds. By striking you are only affecting these people the big corporations don't care. Its a disgrace.

This shows just how silly some folks can be .

 

[Flamingo]

It Just goes to show how out of touch people who work for TOC's are with the rest of society. Many people are taking unpaid leave to help out at the olympics and travel and accomodation costs can ammount to hundreds of pounds. By striking you are only affecting these people the big corporations don't care. Its a disgrace.

Fair play to them if they are that interested in it. Personally, I couldn't give a flying duck about the whole damn thing, and have put in as many leave days and not availables as possible for the duration of the games.

I don't see why NOT wanting to facilitate a social event I feel only apathy towards is in any way reprehensable. I will turn up for my rostered shifts and do my duties to the best of my ability, but I don't feel under any moral obligation to do more. Maybe some of the critics of rail staff for "not displaying the right attitude" will volunteer to work the trains instead.

 

[KA4C]

Indeed, but taken as a whole the rail industry seems to be one of those most affected by industrial action. I struggle to think of an economic area where there is so much of it,

Really? well I must be missing out then, as in my 40 years in the industry I have experienced a about two and a half weeks in total of being involved in strike action and none at all for the last thirty years (and that is working for eight different companies)

Where am I going wrong?

 

[whhistle]

Yes - way back in the early '70s Ted Heath capitulated to the miners and they got what they wanted.

And this is the point. The early 70's was a long time ago from what the world is today.

...but we're not all as militant as some folk (mainly the press) would have us believe.

The problem is though, this particular strike action is being done at a time when it's going to cause the most disruption. The public won't have the daggers out for East Midlands Trains, just the drivers of that company.


Don't get me wrong, I can't stand it when companies announce they are disappointed with $8.8 billion of profit, but it's clear EMT is in trouble. What with this whole economic climate everyone refers to these days and the suggestion EMT is out of money, of course things are going to change to the detriment of the employees. How could it not?

My question is this. If what ASLEF says about "We're far from being hell-bent on disrupting the Olympics; that's the last thing we want to do.", then why not wait until it's over? At a time the country is attempting to shine, they have picked one of the worst times to strike. It looks very much to me as if they are trying to force the company to agree to ASLEF's terms, but EMT are holding out and all that will happen is public opinion of EMT will go down further.

The problem with that is in the grand scheme of what could happen is people will stop using EMT. EMT will then end up running a reduced number of services as demand simply isn't there. That means people will loose their jobs; drivers, train managers.

But at the same time, if I was asked to work longer hours in a more demanding and stressful environment and was not allowed to take holidays etc, then I would want some kind of compensation too (be it a higher wage, a bonus, or whatever).

Is this what it's actually about?
Or is the strike over EMT wanting to pay less into the pension fund as it's currently "very healthy".

Rail workers wanting a bonus for doing their job during the Olympics is out and out greed.

I am not sure on the details, but I would imagine the main issue here is that they wouldn't just be "doing their job". They'd be doing a lot more work than what their job description and contract actually says.

I am certain they are allowed to take booked annual leave.

It's also been suggested that the drivers may have to work at short notice for the duration of the event. So? It's not like it'll always be like that. While I agree they shouldn't be forced to work additional overtime, the fact is the Olympics is here for two to four weeks. Sounds very much like the baby throwing it's dummy, maybe the EMT drivers are afraid of a little extra work.
Sounds fairly ruthless, but this is what the public image they are creating for themselves. I'm yet to read a press release describing simply why, in entirety they are actually striking.

Added to that is the fact that an awful lot of the time, getting things done relies on the good will of staff to do more than what their job actually is. If people only did exactly what they are paid to, then I am sure the higher ups will then actually take notice to the issues.

While true, I guess this is how jobs and working is these days. You are expected to do more than your job role.
I would think it's too late to go back to simply doing what was required. But then in "going the extra mile", the company should then look at employee requests with favour. I wouldn't be looking to do favours to employees who bring the companies public image to the gutter.

I agree with the EMT driver quoted here. The other problem is it's not just EMT drivers or EMT who will be spat upon (just a phrase), it's the rail industry as a whole that is being hurt from this.

I said it before and say it again, if you don't like a decision the company has made, voice your concern and start looking for another job. We don't live in the 70's any more.

Plus, can anyone name another industry (apart from buses) which threatens strike action at every corner? Look at what the milk farmers are going through, but we still have milk in the supermarkets. . .

 

[blacknight]

Greece's problems were not caused by the Olympics. What a stupid thing to say.:roll:

Admittedly there one difference in UK regards funding of the Olympics, in that Government as raided the National Lottery to fund the event. So in effect the poorest in this country, who can least afford it are funding Seb's great sporting event. Whilst the richest in the country who shout loudest for the games contribute little to funding due to some tax avoidence scheme or other.
As for legacy cannot see much north of Watford so maybe north of England should be looking for develution.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Plus, can anyone name another industry (apart from buses) which threatens strike action at every corner? Look at what the milk farmers are going through, but we still have milk in the supermarkets. . .

Public sector workers maybe if that can be classed as an industry As for milk in supermarkets only while stocks last. If it is not cost effective for farmers to produce milk & go out of business where's daily pinta in supermarket going to come from? ASDA was that name once formed from Associated Dairies

 

[Metroland]

Every five minutes?

:roll:

From you,nothing.

An attempt to see both sides before dashing to your pc to type yet more knee-jerk right wing crap would be nice.

I won't hold my breath.

And obviously you (and your ilk) would prefer rail staff (both highly trained or not) to be on minimum wage?

Yeah,that would then allow empoyers to walk all over terms and conditions fought for over the years.

Are you a born again Victorian perchance?

You copy that from the Daily Mail?:roll:

Again (for the hard of thinking); this is a dispute between two groups.One group attempts to explain the reasons why this is happening and is treated with contempt by train enthusiasts on a backward looking forum.

The other group rely on the odd press release.

You'd be forgiven for thinking there are other agendas at work here.

I base my opinion on hearing both sides of the story.

You?

Keep your 'understanding' thanks :roll:

The same old tripe every time!

Get in touch with the TOC's and explain yourself to them.

I don't think frontline staff have much say in the cost of your ticket.

Ha!

If only you had the balls to try it...

You have anything sensible to say on the subject?

Blah, Blah, Blah.

Quite honestly the way rail staff come on a public forum and insult members of the public because they don't agree with them is disgrace. I think some of you ought to seriously consider what you write. If I was your managers I'd have you in the office for disciplinary action the way you talk to customers.

It's not mess room bully boy tactics here, I won't be silenced for an alternative point of view.

I have suffered months of strikes in my area, and as a regular user of trains I have every right to complain whether you like it or not.

 

[Ferret]

Metroland, let me get this right - it's perfectly acceptable for you to come on and be uncivil to rail staff, but not acceptable for them to reciprocate. That's an interesting position to take, and one that leaves you with no credibility whatsoever, whatever the merits of the argument.

'Months of strike action'? I've not noticed any rail company suffering no services for a month, or multiple months. It's clear that EMT and the unions have some sort of problem with negotiation, and it seems to be a problem unique to EMT at the moment. The representatives of other companies manage to negotiate quite effectively it seems - so what's gone wrong here? I suspect fault lies on both sides, however much you try and lay the blame at the door of the staff.

 

[blacknight]

Blah, Blah, Blah.

Quite honestly the way rail staff come on a public forum and insult members of the public because they don't agree with them is disgrace. I think some of you ought to seriously consider what you write. If I was your managers I'd have you in the office for disciplinary action the way you talk to customers.

It's not mess room bully boy tactics here, I won't be silenced for an alternative point of view.

I have suffered months of strikes in my area, and as a regular user of trains I have every right to complain whether you like it or not.

So you are saying its OK for the end service user/passenger to talk rail staff how they like but not the other way around.
It is within a workers right to withdraw their labour if they wish to do so, thats been around almost as long as the railway. If workers are going to take industrial action then they are going to do it at a time to cause maximum impact to high light the cause of dispute to wider public.

 

[Metroland]

Yes I am talking about EMT, and this drivers dispute has been going on for months. Many weeks there has been days where the train service has been very limited, before then we had the Sunday working issues, and so on.

SWT is also currently in dispute, so is LUL.

As I said, I don't find other services I rely on (water, gas, Tescos, internet) regularly on strike, but I do find the railways to be a problem.

I'm not blaming rail staff wholly, as a customer I don't care whose fault it is. Internal issues in companies are no concern of any customer.

I'm not aware I speak to any rail staff in a particularly uncivil way, I tend to stick to facts: There are a lot of strikes, rail staff are well paid, the tax payer funds a lot of the railway, if passengers do leave the railway in droves, it would be in very serious trouble and so on.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me 'Victorian, a right wing bigot, talking crap' or anything else.

There are a number of people on this forum (all staff) who fundamentally disagree with some of my arguments. They the ones that have the agenda, not me. You need to justify why you are going on strike in the general big picture, not me.

The trouble is am I not a 'spotter' as many people so insult enthusiasts, I do actually know what I'm talking about because I've seen the way the railway operates on the inside and from the outside, and am therefore more than capable of looking at the big picture. What I see here, is what I saw inside - a lot of bullying of people who have alternative ideas, who don't follow strikes, a huge suspicion of your employer. It's a real problem and needs to be sorted out.

 

[wigwamman]

Blah, Blah, Blah.

Quite honestly the way rail staff come on a public forum and insult members of the public because they don't agree with them is disgrace. I think some of you ought to seriously consider what you write. If I was your managers I'd have you in the office for disciplinary action the way you talk to customers.

It's not mess room bully boy tactics here, I won't be silenced for an alternative point of view.

I have suffered months of strikes in my area, and as a regular user of trains I have every right to complain whether you like it or not.

I don't really see where anyone has actually insulted the public.
The basic point here is the employees have a frustration,they have legaly and democraticaly decided to resist changes to their pension scheme or ask for extra pay for doing extra duties outside their current agreed t's and c's.
Going the extra mile for the company would be fine if the company's actually cared about their employee's,most of them don't beyond their day to day performance at work.
The right wing that ran this country in the 80's encouraged selfishness and individualism,all rail workers are doing is trying to secure the best deal possible,and this may sound antagonistic to fare payers and enthusiasts but why should your average rail worker care if you are put out for a few days through industrial action as I would hazard a guess most enthusiasts and passengers don't care about the rail staff who operate the service they rely on.
Maggie you got what you wanted,congratulations you old buzzard

 

[Ferret]

Reading through the thread, I can find umpteen examples of you talking to staff how you see fit, slurs on the character of people you don't even know. To then claim you are 'sticking to facts' is just beyond belief. Time after time you come on here, seemingly just to troll - why is that?