SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

[swt_passenger]

Add in the failure to deliver the new timetable in December and SWR are a serial misser of deadlines.

They can definitely hide behind NR’s deferral of major timetable changes and claims of inadequate power supplies though. As soon as those happened I bet they renegotiated every deadline they possibly could with DfT.

 

[Domh245]

Does "modify and refresh" also include the relivery, because that definitely won't be finished by March!

 

[swt_passenger]

Does "modify and refresh" also include the relivery, because that definitely won't be finished by March!

No it doesn’t, Modern Railways said they’ve completely separated the internal and external programmes.

 

[theironroad]

Refresh doesn't seem to include doing anything to internal metalwork or fittings.

The metal floor fittings inwhich the internal doors run could have done with a repaint and it would have been nice (maybe technically harder) to put better door opening buttons in. Some have been replaced with more touch sensitive ones, but love or loathe pendolinos, their internal door opening buttons are very good.

Apart from a bit of new carpet and different colour seats, most standard passengers won't notice much difference apart from a few more seats.

 

[Adsy125]

Just had my first ride on a refurbished unit. Apart from the orange handles and very SWT era stickers the refresh is better than I hope for. The new seat cushions are much needed! The removal of buffet and guard's office appears better than I expected, although they should have put a vestibule door in its place. And the guard having to hide in the back cab is a sad reality.

 

[Goldfish62]

And the guard having to hide in the back cab is a sad reality.

Why's it sad? Most trains, including the Class 800, don't have a guard's office. Overall, though, I agree with you about the refurb.

 

[Adsy125]

Why's it sad? Most trains, including the Class 800, don't have a guard's office. Overall, though, I agree with you about the refurb.

Because before they could use the office, which was better for passengers and they can't anymore, no race to the bottom necessary here!

 

[Goldfish62]

Because before they could use the office, which was better for passengers and they can't anymore, no race to the bottom necessary here!

But it's not a race to the bottom. The majority of trains currently in service have never had a guard's office.

 

[43096]

But it's not a race to the bottom. The majority of trains currently in service have never had a guard's office.

And in my experience the guard’s office (at least on the 450s) was at best irregularly used as many guards use the middle or rear cabs.

 

[Bigfoot]

although they should have put a vestibule door in its place.

Guessing this was a 444 a random vestibule door on a 450 would be bizzare.

 

[Monty]

And in my experience the guard’s office (at least on the 450s) was at best irregularly used as many guards use the middle or rear cabs.

My experience tells a different story, I always use it if the unit I have has one and to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of colleagues at my depot use them.

 

[swt_passenger]

My experience tells a different story, I always use it if the unit I have has one and to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of colleagues at my depot use them.

I suspect there’s a major divide between the commercial and non-commercial guard areas/routes. As a passenger mostly in South Hants I’d also say the offices are well used.

 

[Monty]

I suspect there’s a major divide between the commercial and non-commercial guard areas/routes. As a passenger mostly in South Hants I’d also say the offices are well used.

It's also worth taking into account the train length and where passengers are seated too. If you have a 12 car for example there are likely to be 3 offices on the train and only one is likely to be in use at any one time.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just had my first ride on a refurbished unit. Apart from the orange handles and very SWT era stickers the refresh is better than I hope for. The new seat cushions are much needed! The removal of buffet and guard's office appears better than I expected, although they should have put a vestibule door in its place. And the guard having to hide in the back cab is a sad reality.

Wouldn’t that leave a couple of seats out in the vestibule?

 

[Adsy125]

Wouldn’t that leave a couple of seats out in the vestibule?

It would but it would be more comfortable for the majority of passengers in the main part of the carriage.

 

[Goldfish62]

My experience of regularly using pre-OBS Southern was that guards were generally far more visible than on SWT and they didn't have offices to use. Even if a guard uses the office this is in just one part of the train and on a 12 coach train you could conceivably have to walk 10 coaches to find them.

The 450 refurbishment creates an extra 24 standard class seats per unit. That's 72 extra in a 12 coach train, so basically a 13th carriage. On balance I think it's worth removing the office to achieve that.

 

[Dan15812]

How are they going to fully refurbish the semi refurbished 450's?
Swap the current seat rails from orange to blue?
Move the first class seats to both ends?

If the company are trying to save money, than what a waste!

 

[swt_passenger]

How are they going to fully refurbish the semi refurbished 450's?
Swap the current seat rails from orange to blue?
Move the first class seats to both ends?

If the company are trying to save money, than what a waste!

What’s the evidence for changing handrails from orange to blue? The fully refurbished 444s I’ve been on are still orange.

 

[Goldfish62]

How are they going to fully refurbish the semi refurbished 450's?
Swap the current seat rails from orange to blue?
Move the first class seats to both ends?

If the company are trying to save money, than what a waste!

The same way as it's done for the full refurbs from scratch, except they won't have to re-cushion the seats, lay new carpet (except around the former office and possibly in the 1st Class area), or carry out the wiring for the standard class plug sockets. I don't see the issue.

 

[theironroad]

How are they going to fully refurbish the semi refurbished 450's?
Swap the current seat rails from orange to blue?
Move the first class seats to both ends?

If the company are trying to save money, than what a waste!

I think the company are dropping the refurbished term and using 'refreshed' instead...

 

[Dan15812]

The same way as it's done for the full refurbs from scratch, except they won't have to re-cushion the seats, lay new carpet (except around the former office and possibly in the 1st Class area), or carry out the wiring for the standard class plug sockets. I don't see the issue.

But what will they do with the spare first class seats? I'm glad that that the 444 referbishment is more thought through.
Are there any more 444 or 450 next up?

 

[TEW]

What’s the evidence for changing handrails from orange to blue? The fully refurbished 444s I’ve been on are still orange.

The seat mounted grab handles have been changed from orange to blue, but they remain orange on the part refurbished 450s.

 

[TEW]

Full refurbishment of trains:
444003, 444010, 444019, 444020, 444025 & 444040.(13% complete)

450015, 450032, 450081, 450091, 450100, 450113, 450115, 450119 & 450122 (7% complete)

Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly

Can add 450094.

 

[swt_passenger]

The seat mounted grab handles have been changed from orange to blue, but they remain orange on the part refurbished 450s.

Yes I’ve noticed that, I was intending to mean only the full height poles at the vestibules, and the grab handles at the door ways.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Full refurbishment of trains:
444003, 444010, 444015*, 444019, 444020, 444025 & 444040.(13% complete)

450015, 450032, 450081, 450082, 450083*, 450085*, 450091, 450094, 450100, 450113, 450115, 450119, 450121*, 450122 (8% complete)

* = currently being done

Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly

 

[WVL14]

Full refurbishment of trains:
444003, 444010, 444019, 444020, 444025 & 444040.(13% complete)

450015, 450032, 450081, 450091, 450094, 450100, 450113, 450115, 450119 & 450122 (7% complete)

Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly

Add - 450082 (11th 450)

Being done at the moment are: 444015, 450083, 450085 and 450121.

 

[Helvellyn]

How are they going to fully refurbish the semi refurbished 450's?
Swap the current seat rails from orange to blue?
Move the first class seats to both ends?

If the company are trying to save money, than what a waste!

Because they have a franchise commitment to do the work. Moving First Class on the 450s is also part of increasing the seating capacity. The part-refresh was about allowing them to try and meet the March deadline.

Once the 450/0s are done the ex High Capacity 450/5s will be done. As well as moving First Class the extra handrails should be removed and the missing seats reinstated. In theory the units should also regain their 4500xx unit numbers. Once they are done the part-refreshed units will head back in.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Have 444015, 450083, 450085 and 450121 been done now?

 

[387star]

Is flat cloth used or something better, ?

 

[superalbs]

Is flat cloth used or something better, ?

It's some weird coarse stuff. Stains very easily too!