Telegraph article on proposals to ban split tickets

[bb21]

Perhaps you should direct your anger and contempt at the real cause of this situation.

Do you mean the journo who just stumbled across this piece of out-of-date garbage and decided that he could be lazy with his work today?

It is very disappointing that many here are attacking a reputable newspaper

You realise that they are called Torygraph for a reason, don't you?

... and the democratically elected government ...

Just because it was elected does not mean it is competent. If you have had any dealings with the DfT you would know what I mean. They would not otherwise be nicknamed "DafT".

 

[PauloDavesi]

I note that ATOC have not issued any statements confirming they are not trying to introduce the changes suggested. It is ATOC who should be asked questions about why they are trying to introduce such a customer unfriendly, and restrictive change.

Fortunately not all news organisations see the way the morning star does, thankfully.

 

[Ferret]

I note that ATOC have not issued any statements confirming they are not trying to introduce the changes suggested. It is ATOC who should be asked questions about why they are trying to introduce such a customer unfriendly, and restrictive change.

Fortunately not all news organisations see the way the morning star does, thankfully.

But do we know for sure that this is what ATOC are up to? Has there been a public pronouncement, rather than an article based on rumour? It's entirely possible that ATOC have simply rolled their eyes and not felt it necessary to issue a denial!

We know from recent editions of the Guardian that even the broadsheets are perfectly happy to fill their publications with crap and nonsense. It's a sad trait that all our newspapers have - they are not to be trusted I'm afraid.

You're very quick to believe what's written here - maybe a little too quick in my opinion. Purely for the simple reason that it's impossible to enforce, I'm casting a *very* critical eye on this article. I'd advise others to do the same.

 

[route:oxford]

This article, which may of course be false, didn't cover overlapping tickets - which as many know sometimes work out cheaper...

When I say overlapping, I mean a trip from A-D, but purchasing tickets from A-C & B-D calling at B&C thus having 2 valid tickets for the B-C Element of the journey.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Sometimes you can't buy through tickets to your final destination, even if you wanted to. Not every ticket machine has every possible fare to every possible station.

The machine at my local station Little Sutton doesn't offer every cheap day return in the fares manual, nor does it offer the Cheshire day ranger or the NorthWest day ranger.

 

[flymo]

If this did ever happen can you imagine the stink the papers would kick up about the little old grannie* who fell foul of the 'new' split ticketing regs and was charged for a new ticket for refusing to step onto the platform for a second.

* I know a grannie might not be the obvious choice but it is the papers i'm talking about here

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Sometimes you are actually forced to split your tickets.

For example, off-peak returns (formerly savers) are not valid for a change of journey on the outward leg.

But you can break your journey on a cheap day return although station staff don't always realize this.

I remember having a huge argument with the lady on the barrier at Huddersfield when I wanted to have a pint in the Kings Head holding a CDR from Liverpool to Penistone and faced with a 40 minute wait. This pub is actually on the platform but you can only access it from there after 6 pm.

It took her 10 mins to relent when I told her that I also wanted to go to the ticket office to buy a CDR from Penistone to Chapeltown to complete my journey.

 

[142094]

Bit of problem at Huddersfield when the station entrance to the pubs are shut and you're forced to go via the exit, although you are still not breaking your journey as you are using the station facilities.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They can make it more awkward to split tickets but it is nigh on impossible for them to stop it as there will always be ways around the "rules" the make up as they go along. As for 'smart' cards just get two (or three or four etc) of them and do 'split smartcarding'.
They may manage to get it all their own way when brain chip technology is introduced.

 

[RJ]

They can make it more awkward to split tickets but it is nigh on impossible for them to stop it as there will always be ways around the "rules" the make up as they go along. As for 'smart' cards just get two (or three or four etc) of them and do 'split smartcarding'.
They may manage to get it all their own way when brain chip technology is introduced.

I already use split Oystercards in London . I have a TfL Oyster and a standard one with a Y-P discount on it and switch if using an NR service. It's going to get even worse when I get an 18+ Student Oyster in the summer as I'll be having a season ticket on that

 

[Oscar]

Do you mean that you switch between Oyster Cards when you change trains are that you get off and touch out and back in specifically to do this?

 

[RJ]

Do you mean that you switch between Oyster Cards when you change trains are that you get off and touch out and back in specifically to do this?

Yep - I've done it at places like Stratford and Barking. I have a paper season ticket which takes care of everything I need south of the river but a discounted Travelcard might prove to be better value for money

 

[yorksrob]

Yep - I've done it at places like Stratford and Barking. I have a paper season ticket which takes care of everything I need south of the river but a discounted Travelcard might prove to be better value for money

I should imagine that's a lot less of a problem on London commuter services than it would be on hourly/half hourly trains.

 

[island]

For example, off-peak returns (formerly savers) are not valid for a change of journey on the outward leg.

This is not always, or even usually, true.

 

[RJ]

Well it's academic really as I'm changing trains anyway. I'm not really in favour of a nationwide smart ticketing scheme, as many people have demonstrated that they are not mentally capable of using one correctly in London.

 

[NSEFAN]

Bit of problem at Huddersfield when the station entrance to the pubs are shut and you're forced to go via the exit, although you are still not breaking your journey as you are using the station facilities.

What actually consitutes "breaking a journey"?

If a passenger were to alight at a random station between A and B, is it only breaking the journey if they leave the station itself?

 

[island]

What actually consitutes "breaking a journey"?

If a passenger were to alight at a random station between A and B, is it only breaking the journey if they leave the station itself?

From memory, you break your journey when you leave a station other than by train, with the exception of when you are travelling to another station to make a connection or staying overnight when unable to reasonably complete your journey in one day.

There might be another exception, but I forget it if so.

 

[142094]

If you had a ticket where it explicitly said 'No break of journey allowed', you could only go to the oub at Huddersfield if you had to change there (e.g. if travelling from Leeds to Lockwood, Leeds to Slaithwaite, you'd are forced to change at Huddersfield. Therefore going to the pub is not a break of journey, as you are using the station facilities.

 

[island]

If you had a ticket where it explicitly said 'No break of journey allowed', you could only go to the oub at Huddersfield if you had to change there (e.g. if travelling from Leeds to Lockwood, Leeds to Slaithwaite, you'd are forced to change at Huddersfield. Therefore going to the pub is not a break of journey, as you are using the station facilities.

I don't think that's correct. You do not have to be changing somewhere to use its facilities. For example, on a Lee (London) to Gatwick Airport SVR (8A restriction), I am entitled to get off at Lewisham and go to the shop there, or to East Croydon and buy a coffee, even though I don't need to change trains at either point. What I must not do is leave the station premises.

 

[142094]

I see the 8A states:

"Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities."

Is that common with other restrictions? Sure there are some that will just state "Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station".

Of course it also depends on whether it is supposed to mean 'access station facilities at a station where you have to change trains', or 'access to station facilities at any station on the route given by an itinerary'.

 

[bb21]

I see the 8A states:

"Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities."

Is that common with other restrictions? Sure there are some that will just state "Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station".

Of course it also depends on whether it is supposed to mean 'access station facilities at a station where you have to change trains', or 'access to station facilities at any station on the route given by an itinerary'.

Strictly speaking the wording of the restriction text for 8A is incorrect.

Accessing station facilities is not classed as "break of journey", nor is leaving a station for the purpose of changing trains.

 

[142094]

Accessing station facilities is not classed as "break of journey".

But station facilities at where though? Is that defined anywhere?

 

[bb21]

But station facilities at where though? Is that defined anywhere?

No, it is one of those things that are not defined.

 

[142094]

Not ideal really, should be clearer.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

From memory, you break your journey when you leave a station other than by train, with the exception of when you are travelling to another station to make a connection or staying overnight when unable to reasonably complete your journey in one day.

There might be another exception, but I forget it if so.

When following the instructions of an authorised person.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Journalists are simply picking up on this and unwittingly spreading it further.

Look at the newspaper concerned and ask yourself how many of their readership will respond exactly how the journalist who wrote this article expects them to do.

"Offended of Orpington" syndrome is still very much alive and well in 2012 as it ever was in days of yore.

 

[LexyBoy]

The more people that are led to believe they'll get into trouble for using split tickets, the easier it makes it to actually ban it - or better yet mean there's no need to catally can it as it is universally accepted that it already is. Classic FUD.

 

[jon0844]

If people are in any way scared about getting hassled by staff, they'll play safe and pay the higher price.

Job done. No need to make anything illegal - just allow rumours to spread and don't be in any rush to deny them.

 

[4SRKT]

Not ideal really, should be clearer.

Better for the consumer that it isn't really, so that ludicrous and mean-spirited no BOJ rules are effectively unenforceable.

 

[AndyLandy]

The thing is, somewhere along the lines, someone set these fares on the basis that they considered them appropriate*. So, someone set the fare from A-B as £10 and the fare from B-C as £20.

If someone sets the overall fare of A-C as £40, that doesn't detract from the fact that the A-B and B-C fares are still appropriate* for that journey.

I guess it gets a little muddier when it comes to mixing peak and off peak tickets, but I can't see any other sensible solution to that, unless someone can come up with a way of making hybrid fares work.

*by 'appropriate', I mean that whomever set that fare considered it an acceptable amount to charge passengers for that journey.