TFL on NYE - free and plenty travel options. Up here? Nothing! *Rant*

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Howardh, 28 Dec 2018.

  1. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    Maybe NYE 1999 as an one-off?? Mind you, everywhere was shut so nowhere to go if I remember...!!
     
  2. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I'd be happy with that - a normal timetable service on NYE as opposed to the all-night running!

    Judging by the various threads on football fans using trains, I suspect many here would support that...
     
  3. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    I actually feel a bit of sympathy for football fans, their games are shifted so much by TV (KO times to late evening, or a Sunday/Monday) when there's no chance of getting trains back from the grounds.
    In an ideal world we would look at the fixture list and make sure, for example, Bournemouth v Liverpool or ManU or City is played mid-afternoon so away fans can get home....but then again we live in a Murdoch-world where people don't matter (as long as they cough up their TV subs).
     
  4. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    2345 until 0430 is the TfL (and LT before that) free travel window and has been for years.

    It's never been an all-day offer (for either NYE or NYD).
     
  5. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Which lines shut early on NYE?
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  6. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The National Rail Enquiries website says that many Tocs will be closing down early on New Years Eve.

    CrossCountry, East Midlands (the London route has engineering work but customers have to leave London much earlier than normal to get to the north), Great Western, Grand Central, Hull Trains, London Northeastern, Merseyrail, Northern Trains, ScotRail, Island line service, Transpennine (although this may be engineering, I'm not sure), TfW Rail and Virgin Trains all have a reduced service with trains departing earlier compared to the normal evening service.
     
  7. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    What is weird is that some lines enjoy a full service on NYE even if they don't run extra after midnight but others shut early. This makes little sense.
     
  8. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    In addition to Mojo's post above, the OP suggested that some services around Manchester will be shutting early.
     
  9. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes I agree, if they aren't going to run a service past Midnight there's probably no point in running anything after say 22.30.
     
  10. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    There is certainly inequity here and for no apparently good reason. Why should, for example, local trains in the Birmingham and Norwich areas and the line from Ashford to Hastings run until usual finishing times but local trains in the Manchester area finish early?
     
  11. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

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    _ Manchester Evening News

    Note, never mind New Year's Eve, there's a severe shortage of buses on NYD too
    so not one single bus in Bolton. Xmas day I can understand, but a bog-standard bank holiday? Why not a Sunday service on key routes with double-prices so the drivers and staff can get their double time?

    Note - someone mentioned "taxis" which, apart from charging a minimum of double rates over the holidays (think they might know there are no buses or trains....) they also are rarely available on spek unless booked in advance. So you could have a long wait when they "first one's an hour, bud"....and that's at the rank.
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  12. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    One reason is retailers agreed (colluded you might say) not to get too carried away with Black Friday deals and other discounting that did them no favours and just caused riots and negative publicity.

    Clearly the sales were a lot more subdued in the run up to Christmas and beyond. It can't have helped that people have wised up (thanks in part to the likes of Which?) to sale prices that aren't actually cheaper than they've been sold for before, or specially imported junk just for the sales that haven't been sold anywhere before at any price.

    Another reason might be that many retailers simply can't afford big discounting, which is another reason why they probably agreed to tone things down.

    People still feel the pressure at Christmas but I do think more and more people are starting to say they've had enough. I am sure consumer spending will be down when the figures come out.
     
  13. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    What are public transport services like in Scotland on NYE - are special services operated for Edinburgh’s fireworks and are there any big public events in Glasgow or elsewhere that attract large crowds?
     
  14. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    That's a further example of inconsistency. Train services in the Manchester area are almost normal for a weekday, whereas in London and the South East, trains generally only run a Sunday service. However, TfL buses run a Sunday service and some other bus companies in the SE (such as in Crawley and Brighton) also run a Sunday service, whereas there are very few buses in the Manchester area.
     
  15. plcd1

    plcd1 Member

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    Not in my recollection of being in London for over 30 years. I've never ventured out on New Years Eve as I think it's all pointless. Free travel has always been for the overnight period from just prior to midnight to the formal start of the next day's traffic - around 0430/0500. I agree with those who say it is undoubtedly a measure to remove the "conflict" of inebriated people having to struggle to buy a ticket or otherwise cope with ticket gates / validators / bus card readers.

    To answer queries in other posts TfL have had to cover the cost of NYE travel for about the last 4 years. Sponsorship dried up a while ago and I suspect it will never come back because there are better ways (social media etc) to get more bang for your buck with the target audience for private companies. Also TfL's reputation is not what it once was so why would the private sector want to be associated with a night when the service creaks at the seams trying to cope with drunken crowds?

    It is also worth noting that the level of bus service provision on NYE night was cut by about 60% last year with a mass axeing of many Outer London NYE night services leaving many areas without bus links from tube and rail stations. Also the scale of supplementary service on night routes has been severely reduced on NYE. Therefore things are not all rosy in the "TfL NYE garden". It is also worth noting in passing that the scale of closures of tube stations in the Central London on NYE night grows each year - a deliberate attempt to force people to walk longer and longer distances thus subtly dispersing crowds over an ever wider area. It remains to be seen whether the borderline crowding / queuing disasters that I've heard reported on have lessened as a result of this "dispersal" policy.
     
  16. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Lothian buses are running a premium fare night bus network in the early hours of NYD

    https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2018/12/hogmanay-bus-services/

    and are running a half hourly service on many routes during the day.

    Given how much more important New Year is in Scotland compared to England, it is rather shocking that most bus companies in England are running much less.

    Citylink are taking advantage of the train shutdown and running a premium fare service on main routes including some night buses from Edinburgh

    https://www.citylink.co.uk/timetables/Winter2018/web_xmas18.pdf

    Buses in Glasgow are run by First so obviously they are running virtually nothing. Only the bus to the airport.

    https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-...pdates/christmas-and-new-year-service-updates
     
  17. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    My home town had buses on Boxing Day but no trains. On New Years day it will have a train service but no buses. What a joke!
     
  18. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    The general shift to online retail also naturally shifts focus away from store-based sales (punch-ups) on Black Friday. Probably just had the effect of general sales dropping as customers stayed away.

    Whereas maybe 10 years ago a couple of Christmases had really slow sales to the point of starting panic discounting before Christmas, Black Friday is now being used as a phychological starting gun for spending in the run up to Christmas. Not that this year seems to have been that effective.
     
  19. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I get the feeling people are still going to the shops in reasonable numbers, but in many cases don’t seem to be buying much - or (like with the wider high street trend) spend more time in a cafe than shopping.

    This Christmas has definitely been a little more subdued than some recent ones - in the last couple of years for example the weekday evening trains out of King’s Cross tended to be noticeably more crowded during December. Whilst the timetable has changed so it isn’t a totally fair comparison, this year I barely noticed a difference.

    I wonder if it’s s combination of factors. People worn down by the hype, switch to online, tightening of belts, et cetera. My local Indian restaurant say they’ve had one of the busiest Christmases they can remember though.

    Still a pain in the proverbial though and I’ll be glad when it’s finished and 50 weeks to go until the next one. And of course we’ve still got the usual couple of selfish ****s at work who just *have* to get for themselves both Christmas *and* New Year off <sigh>.
     
  20. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Most of my trips out to the 'high street' are to have a coffee/snack. A way to get out of the house more than anything else.

    It's ironic because you're paying for something you could easily have at home for a fraction of the price.

    I would normally say that I do most shopping online these days but I didn't even spend much on Amazon this year. I just didn't spend a lot full stop.
     
  21. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    All I’ve done for Christmas is three cards, and a holly wreath on the front door. We will buy each other something, but only when we both think of / find something we particularly need/want - and certainly won’t be influenced by nonsense like “Titanic Tuesday”.

    I wonder if in some cases the trend towards cafes may be because of the gradual shift towards smaller homes.
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  22. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Smaller homes do indeed seem to make you want to go out more. When I was in a one bed flat, I felt the need to be out all the time!
     
  23. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    Also increase in home working and people wanting to get out and speak to someone
     
  24. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Funny I seem to be the opposite - when I want to get out it’s normally when I get the urge to do a rural walk where hopefully I won’t see anyone! I don’t home work though. ;)
     
  25. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    Exactly. Why you'd want to go anywhere on New Year's Eve you can't walk home from or get a taxi is beyond me.

    Just because you can do something in, say London, doesn't mean you should want to. It's quite nice that other places are more sensible and do close their transport networks.
     
  26. bluegoblin7

    bluegoblin7 Member

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    Even if it means that some of their colleagues end up finishing ninety minutes late at a completely different location!

    I'm all for us running a normal service through Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year etc. I accept that many don't agree - a balance has to be struck and we're probably not a million miles from that.

    But we all sign up to work shifts etc. etc. and I'd rather work Christmas than "lose" a day's leave...
     
  27. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Oh I don't disagree, why on earth would I want something like Boxing Day off - a time of year when the days are too short to do much useful, and anywhere within a mile of a shopping centre is gridlocked. *Far* more fruitful things to do with the time during months like April May June and September. I do rather value having just one day of the year when pretty much everything bar the absolute bare essentials is shut down though, and of course few current railway employees will have signed up in the knowledge that they might be working Christmas Day.

    Having said that, the sheer selfishness of some people kind of leads me to start to want to dig my proverbial heels in a little. The person I'm thinking of I bet will be in a pub on New Year's Eve, so yet another hypocritical "I'm determined to have it off, but expect others to go to work to provide for me" type.

    I case you haven't noticed, I really hate Christmas! It really seems to bring out the worst in (some) people. ;)
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  28. bluegoblin7

    bluegoblin7 Member

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    No sympathy here, middles NYE and NYD which are probably the worst shifts to do anything practical with!

    Safe to say I hate Christmas also. My rest days fell over Xmas and Boxing Day this year, not that it meant much as my 0230 finish Christmas Day morning set me up nicely for a week of lates...

    I certainly appreciate the sentiment and I won't actively argue against a total shutdown on Christmas Day, recognising that many do want to spend the time with their families etc. I just begrudge the rest of us losing a day's leave (granted, I didn't this year!) for a day that is just the same as any other!
     
  29. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Just to give the opposite view, I've been to several Central London New Years, including the Millenium, and have never encountered any difficult people anywhere, Tube, DLR, or in the streets. It was nice once a few years ago to sit in a south bank pub at 2am.

    Incidentally, on the Millenium night the DLR broke down at its inner end at about 23.30, until at least 02.00, with people stuck in trains up on the viaduct between Tower Gateway and Shadwell right through the moment, and others of course now unable to get there. This was completely glossed over by TfL and the Mayor the next day, who said all had been perfect. It was only a post here a couple of years ago which gave the technical reason and persuaded me I hadn't dreamt the whole thing. We walked home.

    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/docklands-light-railway-breakdown-on-millennium-night.110189/
     
  30. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    New Year's Day is hardly a "bog-standard bank holiday"!

    Taxi tariffs are fixed and set by the local authority that licences them and their meters cannot be changed ad-hoc, they will usually have three rates, the times (and days, for bank holidays) of which apply are set in stone. It's completely untrue to suggest that there is a "minimum of double rates over the holidays" or that buses or trains existing or not have any bearing on what you pay.
     

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