Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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Deepgreen

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Er not a clue unless your making a joke?

Indeed! I, along with others, have been bemoaning the long list of recent 700 failures, including my 1638 from Blackfriars to Three Bridges yesterday with AWS failure at S. Croydon (32 late at Redhill where it terminated) and today's brake failure at Blackfriars.
 

Class377/5

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Indeed! I, along with others, have been bemoaning the long list of recent 700 failures, including my 1638 from Blackfriars to Three Bridges yesterday with AWS failure at S. Croydon (32 late at Redhill where it terminated) and today's brake failure at Blackfriars.

You seem sure its a brakes failure. Are you sure of that?
 

ComUtoR

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For example being unable to release brakes because of an interlock issue doesn't make the brake faulty.

How did the interlock affect the brakes ? If you don't have interlock will the brakes stay on ?

Will the holding brake stay on if the doors are released ?
 

Deepgreen

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You seem sure its a brakes failure. Are you sure of that?

Only going by what others have told me here. To be honest, I don't really care what the actual cause was; it's yet another in a continuing series of failures that I would have expected to have been pre-empted by the extensive testing that went on before entry to service. The level of service failures arising from the 700s seems to me to be far in excess of what should have been expected by now.
 

Failed Unit

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Only going by what others have told me here. To be honest, I don't really care what the actual cause was; it's yet another in a continuing series of failures that I would have expected to have been pre-empted by the extensive testing that went on before entry to service. The level of service failures arising from the 700s seems to me to be far in excess of what should have been expected by now.

Unusual for me to stick up for GTR, but I guess they have done all they can with a soft launch. Nothing tests a unit like real use in a way a test track can't. I guess that is why they did London Bridge - Brighton first so it didn't have the impact on the core.

Hopefully they are at the bottom of the curve now. But it certainly shows that new trains are probably the biggest performance risk on the network. At least us great northern users are safe in the knowledge that Thameslink has taken the pain. (Not that either route should suffer this much pain)
 

Deepgreen

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Unusual for me to stick up for GTR, but I guess they have done all they can with a soft launch. Nothing tests a unit like real use in a way a test track can't. I guess that is why they did London Bridge - Brighton first so it didn't have the impact on the core.

Hopefully they are at the bottom of the curve now. But it certainly shows that new trains are probably the biggest performance risk on the network. At least us great northern users are safe in the knowledge that Thameslink has taken the pain. (Not that either route should suffer this much pain)

It wasn't only on a test track, though - there was extensive testing on the main line here before entry to service. All this seems, nevertheless, to have allowed numerous important faults to slip through into service.
 

Class377/5

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Only going by what others have told me here. To be honest, I don't really care what the actual cause was; it's yet another in a continuing series of failures that I would have expected to have been pre-empted by the extensive testing that went on before entry to service. The level of service failures arising from the 700s seems to me to be far in excess of what should have been expected by now.

Your still assuming it was related to the train being a fault not something else.

Secondly, you expect trains to never fail? You'll always be disappointed with that.
 

ComUtoR

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Sort your attribution out then if it wasn't!!

Or just tell everyone what actually failed/went wrong/didn't work as intended.

Unless of course its a big secret.

BTW the stopping point at Blackfriars for a RLU has been moved. Was the stopping point updated on the units and how easy was it to do. It has moved a considerable length so the stopping window on the old point is well and truly gone.

If it was updated, how easy can it be done for all the others and if it hasn't why not and are we expected just to manually do the doors when they change stopping points elsewhere ?

Cheers in advance.
 

Deepgreen

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Your still assuming it was related to the train being a fault not something else.

Secondly, you expect trains to never fail? You'll always be disappointed with that.

I am quoting what others have posted on this thread as being the cause. I have nothing else to go on in this case but the informed sources here.

I have no unrealistic expectation that trains will NEVER fail, obviously, but new trains which are supposed to have been thoroughly tested both before and after delivery (on the route which they operate) should not be failing this often. I am far from alone in thinking this, judging by a number of other posts. Do YOU think the class 700 performance level is acceptable?
 
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spark001uk

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Bit of off-peak bay action at Blackfriars today, just seen an RLU in 4, looks like there's several 3Txx workings today to/from TBD, training?
Also a pair of 377 in 3, as 1W41. 2W34 was canned there earlier, showing as passenger taken ill.
 

Class377/5

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Bit of off-peak bay action at Blackfriars today, just seen an RLU in 4, looks like there's several 3Txx workings today to/from TBD, training?
Also a pair of 377 in 3, as 1W41. 2W34 was canned there earlier, showing as passenger taken ill.

The 3Txx are always commissioning trips. There are regular workings into the bays.

I am quoting what others have posted on this thread as being the cause. I have nothing else to go on in this case but the informed sources here.

I have no unrealistic expectation that trains will NEVER fail, obviously, but new trains which are supposed to have been thoroughly tested both before and after delivery (on the route which they operate) should not be failing this often. I am far from alone in thinking this, judging by a number of other posts. Do YOU think the class 700 performance level is acceptable?

Going off what I actually, no. But then I'm seeing actual reasons not the guess work that happens on this forum. And this forum is not entitled to know the workings of every incident. I don't the same people will be demanding the same of every other train nor the ones soon to be introduced. And I'm sure will be now used to attack me as being anti passengers/forum users.
 
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87015

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Going off what I actually, no. But then I'm seeing actual reasons not the guess work that happens on this forum. And this forum is not entitled to know the workings of every incident. I don't the same people will be demanding the same of every other train nor the ones soon to be introduced. And I'm sure will be now used to attack me as being anti passengers/forum users.

Yep you are only the staff or otherwise able to comment on here, no-one else knows anything and it's all guess work. Classic.
 

spark001uk

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I am far from alone in thinking this, judging by a number of other posts. Do YOU think the class 700 performance level is acceptable?

Indeed. I'm out and about today, and part of my plan was the 1755 off East Croydon towards Bedford. This was cancelled throughout, no reason, apart from planning error, which could mean anything. So I go off and do something else, come back in time to get the 1925 off east Croydon up. Cancelled. It left Brighton, got one stop to Preston Park and the doors packed up (reason given on rtt).
Last week it was the 1555 cancelled, and the week before that there were 2 or 3. This is random days, random times.

Now, I'm either a) extremely unlucky on multiple occasions, or b) this is a frequent enough occurrence to catch me almost every time I use random services!
 

87015

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Indeed. I'm out and about today, and part of my plan was the 1755 off East Croydon towards Bedford. This was cancelled throughout, no reason, apart from planning error, which could mean anything. !

Ignore the RTT "reason" - for some reason the translations are off for many, best described as political presumably. Take the two letter code and check it against here which seem to be the straight delay reason codes

http://nrodwiki.rockshore.net/index.php/Delay_Attribution_Guide

RTT puts TI which is rostering (ie vacant turn) to planning error for its own reasons.
 

Failed Unit

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I am quoting what others have posted on this thread as being the cause. I have nothing else to go on in this case but the informed sources here.

I have no unrealistic expectation that trains will NEVER fail, obviously, but new trains which are supposed to have been thoroughly tested both before and after delivery (on the route which they operate) should not be failing this often. I am far from alone in thinking this, judging by a number of other posts. Do YOU think the class 700 performance level is acceptable?

I would hope not. Are they going through the "378" period when they failed left right and centre. Not sure what is up tonight but high number of cancellations at Blackfriars.
 

spark001uk

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...But then I'm seeing actual reasons not the guess work that happens on this forum. And this forum is not entitled to know the workings of every incident..

Well if you know a "real" reason and this forum isn't entitled to know about it as you say, then how about you just don't say anything at all, rather than tell people they're using guess work and then take an "Ah but I'm not telling you the real reason" stance!
 

W230

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OBTW the stopping point at Blackfriars for a RLU has been moved. Was the stopping point updated on the units and how easy was it to do. It has moved a considerable length so the stopping window on the old point is well and truly gone.

If it was updated, how easy can it be done for all the others and if it hasn't why not and are we expected just to manually do the doors when they change stopping points elsewhere ?
I believe they just moved the RLU board to the correct place (it's been moved south 7½m). No updates to track or units required. We had to keep stopping past the RLU board prior to this or do a FASDO overide, now we don't!
 

ComUtoR

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I believe they just moved the RLU board to the correct place (it's been moved south 7½m). No updates to track or units required. We had to keep stopping past the RLU board prior to this or do a FASDO overide, now we don't!

I stopped there before it was moved and managed to get the green train up and be able to release the doors without FASDO :/

Weird.

Any idea why no interlock would prevent a brake release ? I was hoping for an answer from 377/5. Suffice to say my course didn't say anything about it and I'm wondering if its possible and how I would resolve such an issue.

I did get that loss of brake pressure warning quite frequently and found that a little disquieting.

Cheer for the reply about the RLU board.
 

Failed Unit

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I guess at the end of the day a failed unit is a failed unit. Bad publicity for the 700s. Passengers don't really care and the "I know but can't tell you" is just an attempt to gain one upman ship. It is a fault with the train however you look at it. But I agree why say anything if the view is "you are wrong - but I can't tell you why". I don't understand why it is such an official secret, unless the problem is extremely serious that if it was in the public domain it may result in all units getting withdrawn from service. Speculation is fun. :)
 

Sunset route

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I guess at the end of the day a failed unit is a failed unit. Bad publicity for the 700s. Passengers don't really care and the "I know but can't tell you" is just an attempt to gain one upman ship. It is a fault with the train however you look at it. But I agree why say anything if the view is "you are wrong - but I can't tell you why". I don't understand why it is such an official secret, unless the problem is extremely serious that if it was in the public domain it may result in all units getting withdrawn from service. Speculation is fun. :)

I'm not saying it's daily but some in weeks it feels that way, but we are sending a lot of defective class 700s that have failed in service for reason or another back to the depot.
 

westcoaster

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I stopped there before it was moved and managed to get the green train up and be able to release the doors without FASDO :/

Weird.

Any idea why no interlock would prevent a brake release ? I was hoping for an answer from 377/5. Suffice to say my course didn't say anything about it and I'm wondering if its possible and how I would resolve such an issue.

I did get that loss of brake pressure warning quite frequently and found that a little disquieting.

Cheer for the reply about the RLU board.

Brake release works of, of positive movement. No interlock no movement.

Or put simply the brakes only release as soon as the train detects forward motion from the motors. Or put simply into 319 talk, step 1 brake and take power, feel the unit move take the brake of.

On the 387's you had hill start, you pressed a button and step 2 brake would apply straight aaway, as soon as the train felt movement it released.
 
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