Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,906
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
The 3Txx are always commissioning trips. There are regular workings into the bays.



Going off what I actually, no. But then I'm seeing actual reasons not the guess work that happens on this forum. And this forum is not entitled to know the workings of every incident. I don't the same people will be demanding the same of every other train nor the ones soon to be introduced. And I'm sure will be now used to attack me as being anti passengers/forum users.

Fine. Trying to make sense of your rather garbled message, I perceive that criticism of the poor performance of the 700s is an irritant. So, here is another stance from a passenger's viewpoint - I don't care about the nuances of every failure - I care that my train service is repeatedly and badly disrupted by the failures of new and supposedly well-tested trains.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
I guess at the end of the day a failed unit is a failed unit. Bad publicity for the 700s. Passengers don't really care and the "I know but can't tell you" is just an attempt to gain one upman ship. It is a fault with the train however you look at it. But I agree why say anything if the view is "you are wrong - but I can't tell you why". I don't understand why it is such an official secret, unless the problem is extremely serious that if it was in the public domain it may result in all units getting withdrawn from service. Speculation is fun. :)

The assumption there is because a train has problem it must be a train fault is wrong. Drivers and infrastructure may cause the train to fail in a safe way (like brakes coming on) yet people on here insist that means the train is a fault. There has been many people on making assumptions into 'facts' and disliking the the fact they aren't entitled to know. If people can't accept they can be told the details into an incident they cannot expect wide and untrue guessing to be unchallenged. If that's seem as one upman ship then tough quite frankly. Seems people are are too bother demanding answers than accepting responses.

I'll just let lies become fact then shall I?
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,906
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
The assumption there is because a train has problem it must be a train fault is wrong. Drivers and infrastructure may cause the train to fail in a safe way (like brakes coming on) yet people on here insist that means the train is a fault. There has been many people on making assumptions into 'facts' and disliking the the fact they aren't entitled to know. If people can't accept they can be told the details into an incident they cannot expect wide and untrue guessing to be unchallenged. If that's seem as one upman ship then tough quite frankly. Seems people are are too bother demanding answers than accepting responses.

I'll just let lies become fact then shall I?

An over-reaction. As far as I can see, they are not "lies" (an intent to deceive); they are assumptions (sometimes erroneous in their details) gleaned from what appears on sources such as RTT, etc.

As I have said, I really don't care about the minutiae of the failures nearly as much as I care about the overall dire reliability.

Again, your consistently terse and supercilious attitude is not helpful (nor is your garbled, presumably rushed, posting).
 
Last edited:

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
7,870
Location
Central Belt
The assumption there is because a train has problem it must be a train fault is wrong. Drivers and infrastructure may cause the train to fail in a safe way (like brakes coming on) yet people on here insist that means the train is a fault. There has been many people on making assumptions into 'facts' and disliking the the fact they aren't entitled to know. If people can't accept they can be told the details into an incident they cannot expect wide and untrue guessing to be unchallenged. If that's seem as one upman ship then tough quite frankly. Seems people are are too bother demanding answers than accepting responses.

I'll just let lies become fact then shall I?

Sitting on the sideline - you didn't give an answer just tried to belittle the poster who made the point. I don't see what is so bad you couldn't say it wasn't the breaks it was ..... but the way you posted your response actually doesn't give it an credibility. "It was more I am right deepgreen you are wrong, get back in your box as I know more than you. ".

Saying you are not entitled to know to me = coverup of something extremely serious. If that is the case better to say nothing.
 
Last edited:

W230

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2012
Messages
1,206
The assumption there is because a train has problem it must be a train fault is wrong. Drivers and infrastructure may cause the train to fail in a safe way (like brakes coming on) yet people on here insist that means the train is a fault.
Many a driver at my depot! :lol:

I've also had a unit cancelled by Three Bridges due to 'a fault' when it was a minor issue that was in the process of being rectified by Siemens and would have meant leaving only 10 minutes late in the peak. Of course, it's their choice but this would have shown a failure when really there was nothing wrong. I'd reported the fault on the inward bound journey but the cynic in me wonders if they'd already made their mind up and to bill Siemens...

ComUtoR said:
I stopped there before it was moved and managed to get the green train up and be able to release the doors without FASDO :/

Weird.
That is weird! I've had a unit that didn't show me a green or orange train and it just let me release the doors (though I was int he correct position still) but you did well to get those doors open in this case. :p
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
An over-reaction. As far as I can see, they are not "lies" (an intent to deceive); they are assumptions (sometimes erroneous in their details) gleaned from what appears on sources such as RTT, etc.

As I have said, I really don't care about the minutiae of the failures nearly as much as I care about the overall dire reliability.

Again, your consistently terse and supercilious attitude is not helpful (nor is your garbled, presumably rushed, posting).

Sorry but in this thread it lies. Fact that when I say nothing the more aggressive poster have in the past stated rumours, guess work and assumptions as fact is where I'm coming from. Especially when when informed posters try and correct thier error but are met with attitudes of staff are w****rs the whatever they say.

If your all happy for those who know better (sorry it upsets you all but it's the truth here) but are not allow allowed to say anything because it will lose them thier jobs then your really not worth my time.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,906
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Sorry but in this thread it lies. Fact that when I say nothing the more aggressive poster have in the past stated rumours, guess work and assumptions as fact is where I'm coming from. Especially when when informed posters try and correct thier error but are met with attitudes of staff are w****rs the whatever they say.

If your all happy for those who know better (sorry it upsets you all but it's the truth here) but are not allow allowed to say anything because it will lose them thier jobs then your really not worth my time.

I've never seen that, and it would be against forum rules. As such, I assume it would be dealt with by the Mods. I would be very surprised if, except in a tiny minority of cases, any member's intention has been to deceive (i.e. to lie), rather than simple error.

In this instance, I re-stated what a previous poster had stated was a brake problem. It is not my intention to fuel rumours or disseminate wrong information, and if others (e.g. you) have better, more accurate details, then I, for one, welcome correction.

I certainly have not the slightest problem with some information being withheld for whatever reason(s), but I do take issue with certain posters whose default mode seems to be angry, defensive or downright rude. It is just not helpful and, in fact, possibly fuels antagonism where none need exist.

I'm sure you post as much detail as you are permitted to - fine, but please don't assume that everyone who takes at face value what another poster might write is lying - that's simply not the case.

In this instance, it's not what you say, but how you say it.
 
Last edited:

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
7,260
Location
UK
Brake release works of, of positive movement. No interlock no movement.

Or put simply the brakes only release as soon as the train detects forward motion from the motors.

Hmm. Cheers for the reply. We certainly wasn't shown that. I might mess about with one next time I'm up Cricklewood. We managed to roll one....


...backwards.
 

SpacePhoenix

Established Member
Joined
18 Mar 2014
Messages
5,492
How many left to come over from Germany (and have they finished construction of all the 700s)?
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
6,735
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
Had my first trip on a 700 last night and I'll happily admit I was left feeling impressed. The quality felt up to the usual standard by Siemens, with the ride quality feeling nice and smooth, the seats weren't too bad, the whole unit felt bright and airy. If anything, my only two gripes were my dislike of Julie Berry's muffled PA voice and the incredibly slow journey had from Blackfriars down to East Croydon - I'm aware that the diversion via Tulse Hill takes time, but signal to signal all the way from there to East Croydon made the journey rather tedious.

I just wish that they'd had the tables / plug sockets and or wifi added into the specification from the start!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,762
Location
UK
They probably move quicker along the production line than from Blackfriars to East Croydon.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
6,662
Talking of 377/5s the first one has been branded up externally and internally by SE over the weekend. The other 7 units will follow suit with them all done by 10/03/17.

Some are still in First Group Livery though I saw only one 377/5 heading north between St Pancras and Bedford around 13:45 yesterday. Lots of 377/2s in Southern green livery in Bedford Cauldwell Carriage Sidings.
 

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,101
Location
Croydon
I have got used to the slow journey between London to East Croydon. Main reason I put up with it is if I have come down the Northern/Piccadilly lines or started near St Pancras then at least I can avoid the Victoria line which is really worth missing in the peaks. Then, of course, the extra journey time is also not so significant. Its also cheaper than paying for the tube and then train if I have not hit the Oster cap. Also means I get a ride on a 700 - though my timing does not seem to hit the jackpot very often :roll:.
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,199
sorry if this has been asked but when do 700s appear in pass service on littlehampton/horsham/east grinstead runs this year? and will these be existing tl drivers or will sn horsham/norwood (?) drivers be coming over to tl
 

redbutton

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
446
sorry if this has been asked but when do 700s appear in pass service on littlehampton/horsham/east grinstead runs this year? and will these be existing tl drivers or will sn horsham/norwood (?) drivers be coming over to tl

SN were soliciting volunteers from Horsham to go over to TL at Three Bridges, and threatening involuntary moves if they didn't get enough volunteers.

I'm not sure what came of that in the end.
 

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,134
That journey is painfully slow and incredibly difficult to bear if you haven't got an iPod or phone with data!

This is true! When I rinse a travelcard I usually throw in a few runs between Croydon and the core or Hampstead, and my day ends with a large data spike on my allowance!
Actually talking of that, I read somewhere, can't remember where now just found it - RailEngineer article on 707s from 25/08/16:

Thameslink (or the Department for Transport which ordered the trains) decided not to include Wi-Fi in the Class 700s, a questionable decision that has now apparently been reversed. Fortunately, Siemens had included the technology framework in the design so, hopefully, the upgrade will not require too much effort. Suffice it to say that South West Trains has included Wi-Fi in its specification for Class 707s.

I wonder if this is actually going to happen / did they change their mind / is the article being economical with the truth? Can't say I've heard anything about it myself!
.
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
3,623
Yes. Some posters do seem to post in such a hurry that the result is hard to understand - sometimes ambiguous. I aim to re-read my posts as the keyboard/self correct really does seem to think it knows better !. I prefer not to criticise anyone in particular and it does not help if the poster is in a hurry as then both meaning and tone can be not what was intended. Of course firing off a post whilst one is, er, working is a challenge anyway !.

Yes that is true, I got into trouble years ago for forum posting when I was at work. :oops:
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
3,623
Had my first trip on a 700 last night and I'll happily admit I was left feeling impressed. The quality felt up to the usual standard by Siemens, with the ride quality feeling nice and smooth, the seats weren't too bad, the whole unit felt bright and airy. If anything, my only two gripes were my dislike of Julie Berry's muffled PA voice and the incredibly slow journey had from Blackfriars down to East Croydon - I'm aware that the diversion via Tulse Hill takes time, but signal to signal all the way from there to East Croydon made the journey rather tedious.

I just wish that they'd had the tables / plug sockets and or wifi added into the specification from the start!


Yes, I agree about the tables or at least window ledges.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
11,833
Location
Epsom
It has been posted on se-gen today that the number of 8 car diagrams rises to 15 tomorrow; no mention of 12 cars so I assume those are unchanged.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
I've deleted a few posts that are off topic for this thread. I'd like to remind all contributors at this point that if anyone has any concerns about a post being in breach of the forum rules, they should report it so that forum staff can take a look at it.
 

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
10,313
The 17.22 left Blackfriars at 43 due to a door fault. It is now only stopping at Gatwick Airport and Brighton. What kind of door fault would allow a train to stop at some stations but not as many? They didn't say the door fault had been fixed and the train was stationary at Blackfriars for a time, whilst they decided what was to happen with this train.

I saw hardly anyone got off so I assume not many people want stations like East Croydon or they were nearer the front of the train.

Incidentally at Blackfriars the train pulled in further down the platform than where some people were standing so clearly the platform is longer than the 12 car trains. Of course no one thought to tell passengers to stand further down, so I noticed lots of people, including foreign students, all pilling into the first class declassified part of the train. Spreading people out might under normal circumstances speed up the departure of a train. As it was then further delayed it didn't matter.

There is space towards the front of the train so I might try go through the people who are all stood in the vestibule areas.

Out of the five toilets on the train, only two are working. Out of the two working, one didn't have a working lock and I didn't try the other.

Update: I managed to get passed all the people standing. Wasn't easy. As the front of the train was green I was expecting lots of free seats, so I thought why stand. When I got towards the front four coaches however most seats taken and the few that were not had bags on the then. I got a seat though as I asked someone to move their bag.

The graphic showing front four sections with free was correct if just one spare seat makes it go green. However I would argue it was misleading I was expecting far more free seats. Perhaps they need a graphic colour for hardly any spare seats. Had I seen that maybe I wouldn't have gone forward or maybe I would as I'm that kind of person whose up for a find a spare seat challenge.

The next train might have been preferable to this one but one isn't to know how busy a train is until they board it, unless the station makes an announcement but it's a Sunday so they probably don't do such a thing on Sundays if at all.

At least it's 12 carriages and wasn't cancelled. Getting everyone off this train onto the next train would be interesting. Who knows how packed that one is as such things are not always known about. Some train companies do announce such things.

Anyway this 700 isn't a pleasant experience for infrequent travellers but older rolling stock would be even worse! Not that they would all be looking on the bright side.

Final update: The actual symbol used for the front four carriages was half the seats are full. That was incorrect as nearly all of them were full. Would this be another fault with the train?
 
Last edited:

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
10,313
On the train timetabled to run half an hour later, there are some seats throughout the train but the screens are only display the station stops and nothing else. Another fault maybe?

No it is not displaying the other information so either the fault was fixed or for a time is display the information. On this train e wet coach bar one is full and of that one, the carriage is half full.
 
Last edited:

spark001uk

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2010
Messages
2,134
...Out of the five toilets on the train, only two are working...

The same thing happened to me recently, it was aboard 700103 iirc. Had to walk down six coaches to get to a working toilet. It was only lunchtime as well so would be surprised if the tanks were all full so soon (if that was the issue, it may not have been).

On the train timetabled to run half an hour later, there are some seats throughout the train but the screens are only display the station stops and nothing else. Another fault maybe?

I was on a unit last Thursday in which the little left-hand display was scrolling normally through the various legends pertaining to toilets, seating etc, but the main display to the right was just stuck on the "safety information is provided on posters in every carriage" message.
 

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
On Friday I noticed that the RLU stop board is a reasonable amont further south on Blackfriars' platform 2 than the S car stop board. It could be new but I guess I've been lucky and only had FLUs?

I suppose people will get used to the new stopping location when the service is operated entirely by 700s, but I saw a fair number of people make a quick dash down the platform expecting it to stop further up.
 

W230

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2012
Messages
1,206
The 17.22 left Blackfriars at 43 due to a door fault. It is now only stopping at Gatwick Airport and Brighton. What kind of door fault would allow a train to stop at some stations but not as many? They didn't say the door fault had been fixed and the train was stationary at Blackfriars for a time, whilst they decided what was to happen with this train.
At a guess, they maybe gave a not to stop order to get the train back right time as a result of the delay. They said 'door fault' as this was probably what had caused the delay in the first place though.This would be a common stopping pattern of a not to stop order (if that makes sense!!)

I've been driving these units since June and have never had to take one out of service yet. I've had once cancelled by Three Bridges due to a minor fault but that fault was rectified, it was just 15 minutes late at that point and was fine to run in my opinion. I've had one with a few issues cancelled by the relieving driver on the next outward journey. But i've never had to cancel one myself. Maybe i've just been lucky. :lol:
 

JonathanH

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
7,454
It has been posted on se-gen today that the number of 8 car diagrams rises to 15 tomorrow; no mention of 12 cars so I assume those are unchanged.

Given there haven't been any further 700/1 deliveries, 11 diagrams for the fleet of 15 (14 allowing for 700110 to be on test duties) seem to be as many as they would want to have and there is no obvious reasons to change them.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
4,906
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
The 17.22 left Blackfriars at 43 due to a door fault. It is now only stopping at Gatwick Airport and Brighton. What kind of door fault would allow a train to stop at some stations but not as many? They didn't say the door fault had been fixed and the train was stationary at Blackfriars for a time, whilst they decided what was to happen with this train.

I saw hardly anyone got off so I assume not many people want stations like East Croydon or they were nearer the front of the train.

Incidentally at Blackfriars the train pulled in further down the platform than where some people were standing so clearly the platform is longer than the 12 car trains. Of course no one thought to tell passengers to stand further down, so I noticed lots of people, including foreign students, all pilling into the first class declassified part of the train. Spreading people out might under normal circumstances speed up the departure of a train. As it was then further delayed it didn't matter.

There is space towards the front of the train so I might try go through the people who are all stood in the vestibule areas.

Out of the five toilets on the train, only two are working. Out of the two working, one didn't have a working lock and I didn't try the other.

Update: I managed to get passed all the people standing. Wasn't easy. As the front of the train was green I was expecting lots of free seats, so I thought why stand. When I got towards the front four coaches however most seats taken and the few that were not had bags on the then. I got a seat though as I asked someone to move their bag.

The graphic showing front four sections with free was correct if just one spare seat makes it go green. However I would argue it was misleading I was expecting far more free seats. Perhaps they need a graphic colour for hardly any spare seats. Had I seen that maybe I wouldn't have gone forward or maybe I would as I'm that kind of person whose up for a find a spare seat challenge.

The next train might have been preferable to this one but one isn't to know how busy a train is until they board it, unless the station makes an announcement but it's a Sunday so they probably don't do such a thing on Sundays if at all.

At least it's 12 carriages and wasn't cancelled. Getting everyone off this train onto the next train would be interesting. Who knows how packed that one is as such things are not always known about. Some train companies do announce such things.

Anyway this 700 isn't a pleasant experience for infrequent travellers but older rolling stock would be even worse! Not that they would all be looking on the bright side.

Final update: The actual symbol used for the front four carriages was half the seats are full. That was incorrect as nearly all of them were full. Would this be another fault with the train?

As the main exit is at the front at East Croydon, then, yes, most people alighting there try to get to the front - often oblivious to the presence of first class as well; as long they are at the front to save single-figure seconds, then nothing else matters!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top