Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[ainsworth74]

This is the normal Desiro noise that can be heard on all other Desiros that operate in the UK.

Think you'll struggle to get that noise out of 185

They certainly shift on the AC - watch a 12 car moving northbound out of SAC on the down fast and it is really impressive.

Yes I had run out from St Pancras to Bedford and back on 700s last week and the performance was quite remarkable. Both the acceleration and also the ride at speed. Effortlessly powerful is probably how I'd describe it. I'm also sure that if someone was so inclined they could easily get 110mph or even more out of them in the future.

Now if only we could get AC to extend well south of the river as well!

 

[Class377/5]

Yes I had run out from St Pancras to Bedford and back on 700s last week and the performance was quite remarkable. Both the acceleration and also the ride at speed. Effortlessly powerful is probably how I'd describe it. I'm also sure that if someone was so inclined they could easily get 110mph or even more out of them in the future.

Now if only we could get AC to extend well south of the river as well!

If you want impressive, a 12 car can use just two traction packages to achieve that.

See the DC performance as well some time as it still impresses me.

 

[ainsworth74]

If you want impressive, a 12 car can use just two traction packages to achieve that.

Wow

See the DC performance as well some time as it still impresses me.

I've had them a few times as far as East Croydon and once round the Sutton Loop but I'll get one on the BML at some point to enable a proper comparison (as neither of those really compare with the MML) but I've been avoiding the BML of late for, er, rather obvious reasons.

 

[Saint66]

Saw an 8 Class 700 at St Pancras on Thursday afternoon at about 2pm, seemed to be out on testing/training as it was an empty service which stopped at Platform A for about a minute before moving off. Plenty of announcements about it not be in service.

It had immediately followed a 12 car service... They really do suck up the crowds so impressively, and as mentioned above the acceleration away is brilliant.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If you want impressive, a 12 car can use just two traction packages to achieve that.

See the DC performance as well some time as it still impresses me.

If they can do that with just 2 traction packages, could they on a rotating basis, isolate a traction package to save on mileage?

 

[D365]

If they can do that with just 2 traction packages, could they on a rotating basis, isolate a traction package to save on mileage?

Motors don't work in quite the same way as engines; for one thing, they're required in order to achieve the full braking effect.

 

[AM9]

Motors don't work in quite the same way as engines; for one thing, they're required in order to achieve the full braking effect.

Surely the full braking effect is available via mechanical braking otherwise emergency stopping distances would be compromised when running with some motors inoperative.

 

[Abpj17]

Saw an 8 Class 700 at St Pancras on Thursday afternoon at about 2pm, seemed to be out on testing/training as it was an empty service which stopped at Platform A for about a minute before moving off. Plenty of announcements about it not be in service.

It had immediately followed a 12 car service... They really do suck up the crowds so impressively, and as mentioned above the acceleration away is brilliant.

Or just out of service and going to the right place?

The testing/training ones I've seen have been really obvious - often late at night and with A4 signs taped to doors and yellow/black tape all over the place inside the carriages.

 

[bramling]

Surely the full braking effect is available via mechanical braking otherwise emergency stopping distances would be compromised when running with some motors inoperative.

Yes the full braking capability will always be available via some form of friction braking. However if all the braking is done this way the train will wear out brake blocks or pads very very quickly. Avoiding this is one of the main reasons for moving away from friction braking in the first place, along with other benefits like reducing dust. Also electric braking is also very effective.

 

[Saint66]

Or just out of service and going to the right place?

The testing/training ones I've seen have been really obvious - often late at night and with A4 signs taped to doors and yellow/black tape all over the place inside the carriages.

It had A4 signs taped to the windows next to each door, and the first one or two doors were covered with tape on the inside.

Also had two blokes sat towards the front behind the cab.

So I'd suggest it was definitely some kind of testing/training, just in the middle of the day.

 

[spark001uk]

Well, this is the class 700 thread...

Agreed, but that doesn't stop other TL stock getting talked about here.

 

[AM9]

Yes the full braking capability will always be available via some form of friction braking. However if all the braking is done this way the train will wear out brake blocks or pads very very quickly. Avoiding this is one of the main reasons for moving away from friction braking in the first place, along with other benefits like reducing dust. Also electric braking is also very effective.

My comment was really directed at the assertion that the 'full braking effect' required all motors to be operating. Electric braking is the norm on anything fitted with motors of course. Do they still raquire there to be at least one mechanical braking application per shift/journey as a test?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agreed, but that doesn't stop other TL stock getting talked about here.

Particularly when their failures in service are being wrongly attributed to the new trains.

 

[samuelmorris]

My comment was really directed at the assertion that the 'full braking effect' required all motors to be operating. Electric braking is the norm on anything fitted with motors of course. Do they still raquire there to be at least one mechanical braking application per shift/journey as a test?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Particularly when their failures in service are being wrongly attributed to the new trains.

Don't they still use mechanical braking below about 5mph?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So I'd suggest it was definitely some kind of testing/training, just in the middle of the day.

That's normal - the test diagram runs through most of the day each day when it operates. I have seen plenty of 700s on test at Croydon and Blackfriars during the day.

 

[387star]

which electrostars are still with thameslink?

it seems all 387s may have now left or at least most of them?

377501-508 have moved to southeastern with more to follow and the first 377/2 are returning to southern

are we very nearly at 100% 700s on all but the wimbledon loop/kent routes?

I assume no 319s are booked to Brighton now

 

[urpert]

which electrostars are still with thameslink?

it seems all 387s may have now left or at least most of them?

377501-508 have moved to southeastern with more to follow and the first 377/2 are returning to southern

are we very nearly at 100% 700s on all but the wimbledon loop/kent routes?

I assume no 319s are booked to Brighton now

I had 2x387 on 1649 Bedford-Beckenham Junction on Friday. Tons of 319s still on Kent services at the moment.

 

[D365]

Don't they still use mechanical braking below about 5mph?

Yes, it's called blended braking.

 

[neilm]

Is it possible to have the diagrams for Wednesday to Friday this week?

 

[Class377/5]

If they can do that with just 2 traction packages, could they on a rotating basis, isolate a traction package to save on mileage?

Nope. Siemens have built the trains with redundancy meaning everything is active for just in case. And they they have tons of redundancy.

Or just out of service and going to the right place?

The testing/training ones I've seen have been really obvious - often late at night and with A4 signs taped to doors and yellow/black tape all over the place inside the carriages.

Plenty of commissioning trains all day now. In December 8 trains were passed for passenger use.

which electrostars are still with thameslink?

it seems all 387s may have now left or at least most of them?

377501-508 have moved to southeastern with more to follow and the first 377/2 are returning to southern

are we very nearly at 100% 700s on all but the wimbledon loop/kent routes?

I assume no 319s are booked to Brighton now

Currently Thameslink has 26x 377s, 377207/208/210/212-215/509-508.

There are only three kinds of services, BML, Sutton or Kent. BML has been mostly 700 for some time bar the Lndon Bridge route which I believe is 20/25% 700 and the rest is all 377 (Southern units).

I had 2x387 on 1649 Bedford-Beckenham Junction on Friday. Tons of 319s still on Kent services at the moment.

There is still 6x 387/1 workings on Thameslink daily.

Is it possible to have the diagrams for Wednesday to Friday this week?

I haven't got the time to try and type them all out for a few days. However no 700s on Sevenoaks IIRC but there more than a few on Sutton services, however its still mainly 319s.

 

[neilm]

Nope. Siemens have built the trains with redundancy meaning everything is active for just in case. And they they have tons of redundancy.



Plenty of commissioning trains all day now. In December 8 trains were passed for passenger use.



Currently Thameslink has 26x 377s, 377207/208/210/212-215/509-508.

There are only three kinds of services, BML, Sutton or Kent. BML has been mostly 700 for some time bar the Lndon Bridge route which I believe is 20/25% 700 and the rest is all 377 (Southern units).



There is still 6x 387/1 workings on Thameslink daily.



I haven't got the time to try and type them all out for a few days. However no 700s on Sevenoaks IIRC but there more than a few on Sutton services, however its still mainly 319s.

No problem, if I contacted you directly would you be able to check a couple of trains? I just want to make sure they are 8/12 cars and not 4. As TL have done this in the past and it is a pain.

 

[bramling]

My comment was really directed at the assertion that the 'full braking effect' required all motors to be operating. Electric braking is the norm on anything fitted with motors of course. Do they still raquire there to be at least one mechanical braking application per shift/journey as a test?

Don't think so.

On the trains I'm familiar with, the driver has no way of controlling whether the braking is friction or rheostatic, it's all done by the train. The only time friction braking is used is if the rheo brake fails, can't work for whatever reason (e.g. motors isolated on a car), or at low speed when the rheo brake fades out. Rheostatic braking can be inhibited via software, but this could only be arranged in depot for whatever reason. There are of course things the driver can unofficially do, but shouldn't. Also emergency braking tends to be friction only, but the driver wouldn't be using this routinely.

London Underground require, on the remaining stock still so fitted, for the Westinghouse brake to be used once per trip. That's to specifically test the Westinghouse brake though, not the EP brake.

 

[Class2ldn]

Still required to do a running brake test, that's gtr policy

 

[APUK002]

Still required to do a running brake test, that's gtr policy

What's is that, brake test while in service? How manyb387/1's on GN and TL and which units now?

 

[bramling]

What's is that, brake test while in service? How manyb387/1's on GN and TL and which units now?

Simply a case of making a service brake application at designated locations in a journey. Normally after start, after an attachment or detachment, after a crew change etc. Simply apply the service brake and observe the train slow down by a designated amount. This tests the service brake, not specifically friction braking.

 

[redbutton]

Though it's not required or even desirable in most cases, on an Electrostar the driver can force the train to use friction braking only, by engaging the DRA on the move. The DRA isolates the traction packages so they can no longer take or return power.

Perhaps it works the same way on the Desiro?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Simply a case of making a service brake application at designated locations in a journey. Normally after start, after an attachment or detachment, after a crew change etc. Simply apply the service brake and observe the train slow down by a designated amount. This tests the service brake, not specifically friction braking.

Are service brake tests in them situations industry standard anyway?

 

[bramling]

Are service brake tests in them situations industry standard anyway?

Not totally sure, but I think it's TOC policy.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

@Juniper Driver, do SWT's drivers have to do service brake tests?

 

[ComUtoR]

Rule book and TOC policy

Various requirements for brake tests

 

[D365]

Just wondering how this relates to the Class 700 discussion?

And I don't believe you can tag individual users on a forum like this.