• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Ticket inspector insisted on seeing my Senior Railcard when entering the platform

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gospel

New Member
Joined
9 Aug 2016
Messages
4
Location
Reading, U.K.
Hi,

I am 84 years old retired university lecturer and bought ticket at the counter by showing my Senior Railcard. At the barrier I showed my ticket and he wanted to see my Railcard before letting me in to catch the train. I told him that I have just showed it at the counter before they issued me the ticket. But he insisted upon and he won't let me into the station. So, I told him if you won't then I will put the ticket through the barrier machine.

I did put it in and when it emerged one of the inspectors, who was listening to our argument took hold of my ticket and insisted upon seeing my Railcarad.

Then, I had no choice but to show him my Railcard and I also told him that I will report this behaviour to Railway authorities. I completed the form and have sent it but it is almost a week, there is no acknowledgement or reply to my complaint.

I have lived in U.K. since 1957 and had never a checker at the barrier ever asked me to show the Railcard before letting me on the platform. Normally, the ticket checker within the train will ask you for a Railcard if doubtful. That too, very rarely I have been asked.

I feel that both the ticket checker at the barrier and the Inspector were wrong in asking me to show the Railcard when I had not entered the station platform yet and I am still outside the station platform. These two people were highly unreasonable to check my travel card before letting me into the station.

Could this be brought to the attention of customer services of the GWR where the Reading Station is and appropriate disciplinary actions be taken against these two employees who harassed me un-necessarily.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
69,004
Location
Yorkshire
Hi,

I am 84 years old retired university lecturer and bought ticket at the counter by showing my Senior Railcard. At the barrier I showed my ticket and he wanted to see my Railcard before letting me in to catch the train.
That's correct.

They are probably trained to check Railcards (unless there is a large flow of passengers and they do not have time to check) and they are certainly entitled to.
I told him that I have just showed it at the counter before they issued me the ticket.
They have no easy way of knowing/verifying that (they're not going to stop manning the barrier to go and ask, when you could just show it) so this will get you nowhere.

Tickets can easily be purchased without a Railcard being shown.

Railcards do need to be produced, on demand, when travelling. Sometimes you will not be asked to show it, but if you are asked then you must do so.

But he insisted upon and he won't let me into the station. So, I told him if you won't then I will put the ticket through the barrier machine.

I did put it in and when it emerged one of the inspectors, who was listening to our argument took hold of my ticket and insisted upon seeing my Railcarad.
That's predictable.

If you had simply put it through the barrier, you'd not have had to show it.

But, as you did show it to the gateline attendant, they are entitled to ask to see it.
Then, I had no choice to show him my Railcard and I also told him that I will report this behaviour to Railway authorities.
There is nothing to report in terms of their actions.

I completed the form and have sent it but it is almost a week, there is no acknowledgement or reply to my complaint.
I don't think you will get anywhere with this.
I have lived in U.K. since 1957 and never a checker at the barrier ever asked me to show the Travel Card before letting me on the platform. Normally, the ticket checker within the train will ask you for Travel Card if doubtful. That too, very rarely I have been asked.
On each occasion they were entitled to ask. In practice, they may not do, but that's irrelevant.

I feel that both the ticket checker at the barrier and the Inspector were wrong in asking me to show the Railcard when I have not entered the station platform yet and I am still outside the station platform. These two people were highly unreasonable to check my travel card before letting me into the station.
They were not wrong, and it is reasonable.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf
You must:
Show and, if asked by a member of Train Company staff, hand over your ticket and any associated Railcard/Photocard for inspection



Could this be brought to the customer services of the GWR where the Reading Station is and appropriate disciplinary actions be taken against these two employees who harassed me un-necessarily.
There is no prospect of disciplinary actions taking place for asking to see your Railcard (nor would any such actions be disclosed to you)

If you do not want to show your ticket at gatelines, you should use the automatic ticket barriers.

Barriers can be programmed to reject Railcard discounted tickets (or tickets of certain types) but this is rare. If they are, then you would need to show the Railcard if requested.

If you believe the staff were rude, by all means take up a complaint with GWR regarding that, but when you say " he wanted to see my Railcard" it doesn't read to me that there is a reasonable suggestion of anything rude about the request, but there is no point discussing that point on here, or any other matters to which I've sent you a private message regarding.

I appreciate the above response may not be what you want to hear, but it is accurate, and is well worth bearing in mind for future trips. I do not believe we can assist you any further regarding this particular dispute though.
 

Gospel

New Member
Joined
9 Aug 2016
Messages
4
Location
Reading, U.K.
Hi,

But I had not entered the station yet. They can demand seeing the travel card on the platform and not when I am outside the platform where every public member can stand without holding a ticket. The railway staff can follow a passenger inside the railway station on the platform and ask to show the ticket and the railcard.

You don't seem to see my point and give blind verdict. Technically, the Railway staff was wrong.

Suppose I had no railcard but held a ticket with railcard discount. Could the inspector charge me fine and extra fare whilst I have not entered the station yet? They should do so on the platform and not outside the platform.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,176
Location
here to eternity
Unless there is more to it than you have stated you do not have a leg to stand on. You must produce your Railcard (when travelling on a railcard discounted ticket) when asked to do so by a railway official checking tickets whether at the barrier or on the train - even if this happens several times on a journey.
 
Last edited:

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
31,359
Location
Scotland
I agree with the opinions already offered: you presented your ticket in order to pass the barrier, that ticket is only valid when accompanied by the railcard. The gateline assistant was well within his rights to ask to see your railcard.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
69,004
Location
Yorkshire
Hi,

But I had not entered the station yet. They can demand seeing the travel card on the platform and not when I am outside the platform where every public member can stand without holding a ticket. The railway staff can follow a passenger inside the railway station on the platform and ask to show the ticket and the railcard.
By "station" do you mean "train"?

It doesn't matter that you had not entered the train yet.

You said "At the barrier I showed my ticket ..."; at that point if you are entering the platform for the purpose of catching a train and you are asked to show your ticket, and you do so, you can be asked to show your Railcard if you are using a Railcard discounted ticket.

You don't seem to see my point and give blind verdict. Technically, the Railway staff was wrong.
I do not see how they were wrong.

Suppose I had no railcard but held a ticket with railcard discount. Could the inspector charge me fine and extra fare whilst I have not entered the station yet? They should do so on the platform and not outside the platform.
I am not a fan of barriers personally but one advantage is that, if you did not produce your Railcard, you would be turned back to rectify the matter at the ticket office (either by purchasing a replacement Railcard, or by paying the difference), rather than be charged a full fare or, where appropriate, a Penalty Fare, which you would be on the train.

They are allowed to check your Railcard as you enter the platform. I am sorry this is not what you want to hear, but it is an undeniable fact.
 

TheEdge

Established Member
Joined
29 Nov 2012
Messages
4,489
Location
Norwich
Are you the sort of person who gets angry when anyone dares ask to see you Senior Railcard in any situation and then only presents it under a whole lot of huffing, puffing and tutting while uttering the immortal line "I had to show it to buy it didn't I?"

But no, there is no complaint to be had, there is no harassment. Deal with it.
 

43167

Member
Joined
18 Jan 2010
Messages
1,021
Location
Keighley
Hi,

I am 84 years old retired university lecturer and bought ticket at the counter by showing my Senior Railcard. At the barrier I showed my ticket and he wanted to see my Railcard before letting me in to catch the train. I told him that I have just showed it at the counter before they issued me the ticket. But he insisted upon and he won't let me into the station. So, I told him if you won't then I will put the ticket through the barrier machine.

I did put it in and when it emerged one of the inspectors, who was listening to our argument took hold of my ticket and insisted upon seeing my Railcarad.

Then, I had no choice but to show him my Railcard and I also told him that I will report this behaviour to Railway authorities. I completed the form and have sent it but it is almost a week, there is no acknowledgement or reply to my complaint.

I have lived in U.K. since 1957 and had never a checker at the barrier ever asked me to show the Railcard before letting me on the platform. Normally, the ticket checker within the train will ask you for a Railcard if doubtful. That too, very rarely I have been asked.

I feel that both the ticket checker at the barrier and the Inspector were wrong in asking me to show the Railcard when I had not entered the station platform yet and I am still outside the station platform. These two people were highly unreasonable to check my travel card before letting me into the station.

Could this be brought to the attention of customer services of the GWR where the Reading Station is and appropriate disciplinary actions be taken against these two employees who harassed me un-necessarily.

They were just doing their job. Same applies if someone had a Young Persons, Student, Armed Forces, Family, Disabled & Network Railcards to get discount travel, they have to show it.
 
Last edited:

Gospel

New Member
Joined
9 Aug 2016
Messages
4
Location
Reading, U.K.
Hi,

Tell me out of 100 passengers, hardly 1 is asked to show his travel card. But why I was picked? It was a harassment.

It was doubting my integrity and if they had asked me whilst on the platform waiting for the train, I would have shown my Travel Card with pleasure.

At the platform, the inspector could stop me boarding the train or asked me if boarded to pay the penalty and other charges. Then, no problem.
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
21,145
Location
No longer here
Yorkie has made a comprehensive reply and is correct in every detail.

You must show your ticket and railcard when asked. It is really simple.

[Judge Judy] Case dismissed! [/Judy]

Edit: Googling the OP's social media profiles is enlightening.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
69,004
Location
Yorkshire
Hi,

Tell me out of 100 passengers, hardly 1 is asked to show his travel card. But why I was picked? It was a harassment.
How do you know if someone is showing a Railcard discounted ticket while not showing their Railcard?

Most people do not have Railcards, but of those who do, most would show the ticket and Railcard in the same time. Ticket wallets are often designed specifically for that purpose.

Only way to test that at the time would be to get someone (with a Railcard discounted ticket) to try it.
It was doubting my integrity and if they had asked me whilst on the platform waiting for the train, I would have shown my Travel Card with pleasure.

At the platform, the inspector could stop me boarding the train or asked me if boarded to pay the penalty and other charges. Then, no problem.
We don't do checks by going up to people on the platform here. If there is a pre-train check, it would be done at a gateline (using machines or manual inspections or both).
 

furlong

Established Member
Joined
28 Mar 2013
Messages
3,760
Location
Reading
Turn the question around a bit.

Say that you never held a railcard, but had bought a ticket requiring a railcard in advance, then went to the station with it and used an automatic ticket barrier and boarded a train, all the while knowing you didn't possess the railcard.

At what point(s) would you commit prosecutable offence(s) for which there might be sufficient evidence to find you guilty if stopped and asked to show a ticket and railcard (and giving a 'no comment' interview)?

On entering railway property outside the station building?
On entering the concourse?
On approaching the gateline (instead of the ticket office) as if to pass through it?
On passing through the gateline?
On entering the platform (which is not a Compulsory Ticket Area)?
On entering the train?
When the train departs?
 

43167

Member
Joined
18 Jan 2010
Messages
1,021
Location
Keighley
Hi,

Tell me out of 100 passengers, hardly 1 is asked to show his travel card. But why I was picked? It was a harassment.

It was doubting my integrity and if they had asked me whilst on the platform waiting for the train, I would have shown my Travel Card with pleasure.

At the platform, the inspector could stop me boarding the train or asked me if boarded to pay the penalty and other charges. Then, no problem.

It wasn't harassment. They were doing their job correctly. I used to have a Young Persons railcard when I was young enough. Plain & simple, ticket not valid without the railcard.
 

Chew Chew

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
513
This is a bit like the davowolf thread the other week.

A retired university lecturer who feels his integrity has been questioned and he has been harassed. davowolf felt he has been accused of fraud and harassed because the TOC had the temerity to defend themselves at the small claims court.
 

DaveNewcastle

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2007
Messages
7,387
Location
Newcastle (unless I'm out)
I agree completely with the previous replies.
. . . . why I was picked? It was a harassment.
I would expect that you were picked at random. As you suggest, maybe 1 in 100; and if there were more staff to check tickets, then of course that would be higher.

Of course it's not harrasment! It's checking that passengers have the authority to be conveyed by train. Its something that some of us wish was done more often.

It was doubting my integrity and if they had asked me whilst on the platform waiting for the train, I would have shown my Travel Card with pleasure.
That's a very self-centred perspective! It was definitely NOT your integrity that was being sought, but your Railcard. The reason is to protect the revenue of the Railways, not to protect your integrity.
 

Sprinter153

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2014
Messages
439
Location
In the TGS
Hi,

I am 84 years old retired university lecturer and bought ticket at the counter by showing my Senior Railcard. At the barrier I showed my ticket and he wanted to see my Railcard before letting me in to catch the train. I told him that I have just showed it at the counter before they issued me the ticket. But he insisted upon and he won't let me into the station. So, I told him if you won't then I will put the ticket through the barrier machine.

I did put it in and when it emerged one of the inspectors, who was listening to our argument took hold of my ticket and insisted upon seeing my Railcarad.

Then, I had no choice but to show him my Railcard and I also told him that I will report this behaviour to Railway authorities. I completed the form and have sent it but it is almost a week, there is no acknowledgement or reply to my complaint.

I have lived in U.K. since 1957 and had never a checker at the barrier ever asked me to show the Railcard before letting me on the platform. Normally, the ticket checker within the train will ask you for a Railcard if doubtful. That too, very rarely I have been asked.

Could this be brought to the attention of customer services of the GWR where the Reading Station is and appropriate disciplinary actions be taken against these two employees who harassed me un-necessarily.

Can you not see how it looks suspicious that you refused to show your railcard when asked? You could have walked up to a ticket machine or gone online and purchased a discounted ticket without having a railcard with you. Incidentally Reading gateline staff regularly check railcards in my experience.

For all the bad press the young get, nine times out of ten if there's a problem with a 16-25 discounted ticket the holder will be straightforward and say 'sorry mate, I haven't got it'. A lot of Senior cardholders will show very little maturity and argue about showing it (because 'can't you tell', 'you're the only one that checks railcards', or 'you should respect your elders').

Staff are not really interested if you're 18 or 80 or whether you're a loo-cleaner or a lecturer, the rules are that you present a ticket on demand, and it's as simple as that.

If you think being asked to show your railcard constitutes harassment, you must lead a very sheltered life!
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
31,359
Location
Scotland
But why I was picked? It was a harassment.
You self-selected by presenting a ticket that was only valid when accompanied by a railcard in order to pass the barrier. They didn't pick you.
 

snail

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2011
Messages
1,848
Location
t'North
His age may be relevant if he looks too young for a Senior Railcard
Age shouldn't be a factor, there will be many older passengers who would qualify for the railcard but don't have one.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
Age shouldn't be a factor, there will be many older passengers who would qualify for the railcard but don't have one.

Quite right. Being 84 does not mean one automatically has a Railcard.

That reason alone is sufficient for stringent checks.

The indignation, sense of victimisation, and wibble about complaining are all pretty much typical symptoms of wounded pride.

FWIW should such a complaint land on my desk, it would actually make me speechless, but I trust my Customer Services colleagues to not allow such laughable ones proceed beyond the "straight rejection" stage.
 

MrCub

Member
Joined
23 May 2009
Messages
260
Location
SE England
What I find worrying is that he has written in and hopes for 'disciplinary action'. In other words he has written in to get people sacked. Charming. I hope the employees are supported by their employer for doing their jobs correctly.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Why on earth do you think the barrier is there in the first place?

How can you be accepting of the need to show a ticket to pass the barrier, but offended at having to show the railcard which qualifies the ticket? Why were you not equally offended at being asked to show any documents at all and not just waived through because you look such a shining pillar of integrity?

Is this a p*sstake?!
 

Gospel

New Member
Joined
9 Aug 2016
Messages
4
Location
Reading, U.K.
Hi,

You check tickets of passengers. But I was not a passenger yet as I have not entered the station but outside the barriers.

Technically, you cannot ask me to show travel card until I had stepped on the platform.

That was embarrassing for me. How would it had been if I had missed my train? At most stations, there are no barriers. If passengers travel without tickets, they take the risk.

I feel the checker picked on me. Checker's main duty is to see that the passengers leaving the station have a valid ticket not entering the station from outside.

Or tell me how would you define a passenger? Standing on the station platform or standing outside the station platform where public is?
 

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,061
A simple solution to prevent future harassment.

Throw away the troublesome railcard and buy a full-fare ticket.

Problem solved.

Ding, next please.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
69,004
Location
Yorkshire
Hi,

You check tickets of passengers. But I was not a passenger yet as I have not entered the station but outside the barriers.
The gateline is within the station and you were an intending passenger.
Technically, you cannot ask me to show travel card until I had stepped on the platform.
That's not correct.
That was embarrassing for me. How would it had been if I had missed my train? At most stations, there are no barriers. If passengers travel without tickets, they take the risk.
I suggest keeping your Railcard with your ticket.
I feel the checker picked on me. Checker's main duty is to see that the passengers leaving the station have a valid ticket not entering the station from outside.
That's not correct.
Or tell me how would you define a passenger? Standing on the station platform or standing outside the station platform where public is?

If you were not a passenger you'd not have bought a ticket.

This thread has obviously run its course.

If you wish to seek assistance, you'll need to go elsewhere. We cannot advise you further.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top