Was it perhaps I1?It wasn't 8A. It was something else which had a morning restriction on the outward leg but no restriction on the return leg of the ticket. I can't remember exactly what though.
Was it perhaps I1?It wasn't 8A. It was something else which had a morning restriction on the outward leg but no restriction on the return leg of the ticket. I can't remember exactly what though.
Was it perhaps I1?
So for those making Day Return journeys after 19th May, travelling from 0930:Will the Off Peak Day Returns from Manchester to Scarborough, Malton, Selby or Doncaster survive?
This has got to be one of the worst value for money fares in the region. It's crazily expensive - and it's almost impossible to get a seat.The hideously extortionate Leeds - York fares march ever upward.
This has got to be one of the worst value for money fares in the region. It's crazily expensive - and it's almost impossible to get a seat.
Doncaster - Cleethorpes (a classic day-trip if ever there was one)
CDR - £21.90 - withdrawn
SVR - £23.80 - no change
effective price increase 8.7%
After a few minutes of searching, I can get back this down to a more reasonable £21.20 by using split tickets priced by other TOCs. Maybe that can be bettered?
Now, if someone were to make a sticky thread, listing all the draconian TPE stealth price increases and the possible ways to overcome them (importantly using only tickets that TPE couldn't easily get the price or routeing changed) then I'm sure that forum members could use their collective knowledge to find the best deals for the travelling public and at the same time deny greedy TPE of revenue. It could even be cross posted on websites like moneysavingexpert.com. Perhaps then TPE would think again what they are doing. Just an idea...
I don't think making such a thread is a useful exercise. The 'anomalies' they reveal will undoubtedly be closed down soon enough, just as many XC anomalies were closed back when TPE's current pricing manager was there. FoI requests reveal that most TOCs are very quick to approve changes of flow ownership or the routeing of flows when it comes from a 'more prestigious' or perhaps longer distance operator.
Well, they're not exactly colluding - the other companies simply wave it through, not minding, as, if anything, they get more revenue when tickets are "correctly" or more strictly routed.That was my worry about the idea: working out which "anomalies" would be safe from TPE interference. Independent private companies colluding to fix prices: you'd have thought that there would be laws against that kind of thing!
It doesn't need collusion to get them shut down!That was my worry about the idea: working out which "anomalies" would be safe from TPE interference. Independent private companies colluding to fix prices: you'd have thought that there would be laws against that kind of thing!
A better way of wording that is: We always knew the DfT would make unreasonable fare demands of the franchise; the winning bid was only ever going to be one that agreed to continue to increase fares at a higher rate than customers would want. The risk here is that TPE staff reading this may think customers are blaming them when all they are really doing is what their bosses tell them to do, which in turn is what the DfT forced the franchise to do.Just goes to show what a grasping and untrustworthy TOC TPE are (which is why we always knew they'd get the franchise renewal)....
On the contrary. I think we can and do trust them to raise fares at a rate (like 9.3%) that is three, four or five times greater than the rate that we as customers would think of as acceptable. Arguably as the fares only went up four months ago the maximum fare rise at this point in time would be 0%. But of course, this is not how FirstGroup will act when they are given the incentive and the permission to increase prices by 9.3%. It is foreseeable. Although we do not have to like it.Have TPE acted in an untrustworthy manner? I think many of their fares are ludicrous but I am not sure it is untrustworthy to set fares at a high level in line with DfT requirements?
A better way of wording that is: We always knew the DfT would make unreasonable fare demands of the franchise; the winning bid was only ever going to be one that agreed to continue to increase fares at a higher rate than customers would want. The risk here is that TPE staff reading this may think customers are blaming them when all they are really doing is what their bosses tell them to do, which in turn is what the DfT forced the franchise to do.
Have TPE acted in an untrustworthy manner? I think many of their fares are ludicrous but I am not sure it is untrustworthy to set fares at a high level in line with DfT requirements?
The high fares do not need to be paid by you anyway Rob; you should know by now that you just need to ask me at a forum meal and I will happily find a cheaper ticket for your journey
There is no viable alternative to the train, and Grand Central do not operate many services. It could be higher than that and people would pay it. People need to make that journey. It would probably be higher except for the fact that it cannot be too costly due to the existence of Northallerton.Some really unjustifiable fare increases from Thirsk:
Thirsk-York: CDR goes up from £12.10 to £12.70 despite the CDR NTR-YRK going up by only 10p to a tenner! This is the fourth increase in half as many years and is frankly outrageous!
The DfT will be happy to read this; it demonstrates that TPE are pricing fares in line with their expectations for the franchise.Thirsk-Selby: SOR goes up from £30.90 to £31.50. Until a year or so ago you wouldn't have needed to buy this ticket anyway as the SVR used to carry restriction 8A.
Even a combination of Anytime Day Returns valid on any operator with a simple split at York undercuts the through fare. That's how the DfT likes it; most people pay more. A few people do get to pay less but that doesn't make much of a difference.Thirsk to Malton - See above.
Just don't buy a Whitby ticket from Thirsk!Thirsk to Scarborough: See above re restrictions:The SOR goes up by a pound, I doubt anyone would pay that much anyway and the flow could really use some day return, which I am sure would result in more money not less being netted as leisure travellers would pick the train. Incidentally until I got my season ticket I wouldn't consider a day trip to Scarborough and would generally go to Whitby instead.
DfT know most people will pay the higher fare for this journey. Hardly anyone will switch to the bus at York, so they are getting more money from all the other people paying more, and they won't mind at losing a small number of passengers. I agree that the DfT will be saying well done to TPE, and to be fair TPE have to make the promises the DfT requires or they won't retain the franchise.Tihrsk to Leeds CDR: Abolished!! The SOR also goes up to £31.10 from £30.50. They couldn't have increased it much further to be fair, it's been creeping up above inflation since before the new franchise. As the YRK-LDS fare has also gone up so much and I hold a season from THI-YRK I'm going to get the CityZap from now on. I do prefer the train but they've priced me off it. Well done TPE.
Thirsk to York is overpriced, however my worry is that TPE may feel that they cannot reduce it (despite Grand Central being cheaper than half price, and not much more than a THIRD of the price at peak times) to meet DfT expectations, so if they decide to avoid their staff being put in an awkward position the Northallerton "TPE Only" fare may increase.Fortunately for those who don't check prices online we have very good ticket office staff at Thirsk who are willing to help people navigate some of the more absurd fares. They have however been told not to offer the NTR - YRK TPE only ticket unless it's asked for. This led to one woman getting rather angry when she was sold a THI-YRK CDR for the existing price and then someone came up behind her and asked for the NTR-YRK ticket. I feel for the staff at Thirsk, I really do as there are so many rip-off fares from here.
For a single journey from Thirsk into York at 0833, the customer pays an unbelievable £14.30. That is 210% higher than the fare if they catch the 0800!!!If I lived in Thirsk I would try to get Grand Central, even if it meant travelling at less convenient times, even though I could afford the extra, as it is SO much cheaper and it's not nice to know you are overpaying. I suspect most people just cough up and pay the high fares though.
Put it this way, there will be a lot more Sheffield to Stockport or Manchester SVRs sold now!They're a bunch of clowns. As one of the traincrew at another TOC who will no doubt be a further victim of their pricing manager