Train cab rides

[D2022]

I've front and rear cabbed a few 150s, backed a 158 and a 159. Done both ends of a 153 in one trip to Gloucester and back. Front and back canned a 207. Also been front end of a HST with some off the record driving done a 60 and a 66 in the front, also clocked some front mileage in E6003, again with a cheeky drive. Done the usual 08s and 09s with some driving, and of course my baby class 03 which I've cabbed, driven, rode on the roof (yes literally) travelled on the running boards and the shutters hole, crashed into a P-Way trolley, wheel spun and etc etc...I drove it unofficially for years lol.

I will ,however, never forget being at SWI with my old man when I was little and a green 37 pulled into the old parcels platform (long before platform 4 existed), I got so excited, I'd never seen something like it before, only HSTs and the old butter trains that used to come into Transfer Yard on a Tuesday I think it was. Anyway I ran off to the thing as the driver stepped down and before dad even noticed I'd legged it the driver invited me up into the cab, I was only about 4 or 5 but I can still remember the smells of the engine, the oil and the coffee the secondman had. I had a good look around, and then the drive let me open the throttles up, of course I thought I was driving it. In hindsight it was probably in neutral or whatever its called on a class 37.

 

[GodAtum]

Wow thats awesome! Wish i could ride in the rear cab instead of being packed like a sardine lol!

 

[D2022]

Wow thats awesome! Wish i could ride in the rear cab instead of being packed like a sardine lol!

Key to it is working for a TOC or knowing those who do I've got both covered but even then. It's not often you get a cheeky drive yet alone be allowed a front cab ride.

 

[D1009]

You have to remember there have been several accident reports where distraction of the driver by an unauthorised person in the cab has been seen to be a contributory factor.

 

[Murph]

And what would those legal and legitimate reasons be?

Legitimately accessing non-railway cupboards and stores which use that type of latch/lock.

 

[83G/84D]

I was acting as pilotman on a single track section a year or two ago and rode with the driver as per the Rules and Regulations. At the end of service I had to get back to my vehicle at the far end of the line which was not covered by pilot working.

To avoid any potential issues with riding with the driver after the end of the pilot working section I went back in the saloon for the remainder of the journey.

Rarely if ever seen any members of the public in front or back cabs of any trains in the last few years even really overcrowded one's.

 

[Yew]

And what would those legal and legitimate reasons be?

Some lathes use keys of similar dimensions to open and close the chuck, The railways are hardly the exclusive user of this sort of driver mechanisim. Remember that essensially its a big Robertson drive socket. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_square_drive#Robertson

 

[221129]

The only Non-public area i've ridden in is the TGS on an HST but I have cabbed various stock when at a terminus the first being an XC HST at Plymouth.

 

[dstrat]

I've seen BTP ride in front cab with driver on certain 170s full of football fans!

 

[BestWestern]

Carriage keys are nothing special, and it's nonsense to say that non railway staff should not be in possession of them. They are used for a wide variety of non-railway purposes, such as utility cupboards, bin stores, etc. I have several myself, am not railway staff, and have entirely legal and legitimate non-railway uses for them. I can think of at least 250 households which also have one or more of them (for the bin stores).

If something is "secured" only by a carriage key lock, it's not secured at all, to be frank about it, merely firmly latched in a way that is marginally less than completely trivial to unlatch.

To clarify, my comment regarding keys in circulation that shouldn't be was referring the the many railway T-keys which get dropped/left lying about/etc on a weekly or probably daily basis, some of which some will no doubt be picked up by types who have unsavoury intentions. My catering steward handed me one which was left sitting on a table in the train just the other day; anybody could have picked it up and helped themselves to a cab or door control panel. I've found them sat in luggage racks and on stairways at busy stations. Our office, as with most I suspect, will happily give you a shiny new one without even the slightest of concern as to where the last one went. Most responsible people who have similar keys for other purposes are unlikely to even be aware that you can find your way around a train with one, or have any wish to do anyway I would think. But yes, I agree they are pathetically unsecure and it is high time they were replaced with something offering the level of security that you would expect on a railway in this day and age, and which staff who have them are expected to take better care of!

 

[A-driver]

To clarify, my comment regarding keys in circulation that shouldn't be was referring the the many railway T-keys which get dropped/left lying about/etc on a weekly or probably daily basis, some of which some will no doubt be picked up by types who have unsavoury intentions. My catering steward handed me one which was left sitting on a table in the train just the other day; anybody could have picked it up and helped themselves to a cab or door control panel. I've found them sat in luggage racks and on stairways at busy stations. Our office, as with most I suspect, will happily give you a shiny new one without even the slightest of concern as to where the last one went. Most responsible people who have similar keys for other purposes are unlikely to even be aware that you can find your way around a train with one, or have any wish to do anyway I would think. But yes, I agree they are pathetically unsecure and it is high time they were replaced with something offering the level of security that you would expect on a railway in this day and age, and which staff who have them are expected to take better care of!

Personally I'm more concerned about the amount if trains which don't have lockable cab doors. Out of the 4 emus I sign 2 don't have any way of locking the outside doors-just turn the handle and the door springs open!

 

[BestWestern]

Personally I'm more concerned about the amount if trains which don't have lockable cab doors. Out of the 4 emus I sign 2 don't have any way of locking the outside doors-just turn the handle and the door springs open!

Are you talking about 'butterflies'? They are a concern I always try to avoid using them in plain view of punters wherever possible, or try and make it look like I'm operating them with a key!

 

[TDK]

Personally I'm more concerned about the amount if trains which don't have lockable cab doors. Out of the 4 emus I sign 2 don't have any way of locking the outside doors-just turn the handle and the door springs open!

That may save your life one day if you need to be egressed from the cab in an emergency, unfortunately these "butterfly" egress handles are abused by the public so many trains now have other means as to open the cab door.

 

[Dave1987]

Just had a notice put on our 5 week notice board reminding all drivers about not having any unauthorised persons in the driving cabs as I think a lot of incidents recently have been due to the driver being distracted somehow. Dont be surprised if any cab ride requests in future are all turned down as I feel DM's and AOM's will be on the look out for any unauthorised persons in cabs

 

[Murph]

To clarify, my comment regarding keys in circulation that shouldn't be was referring the the many railway T-keys which get dropped/left lying about/etc on a weekly or probably daily basis, some of which some will no doubt be picked up by types who have unsavoury intentions.

Yes, I'll happily agree with you on it being preferable for railway staff to try to avoid sprinkling carriage keys around passenger areas with gay abandon!

 

[Starmill]

Yes, I'll happily agree with you on it being preferable for railway staff to try to avoid sprinkling carriage keys around passenger areas with gay abandon!

I think BestWestern and I have had this conversation in the past, but I've seen those keys on ebay for god's sake. I even have reasonable suspicion that one of my family members has one - I could just go and pick it up and jump on the nearest 158 and sell 50% of the trim for scrap. Or just pop the doors open waiting at a signal. What if you worked on a heritage railway? You would probably have one and almost certainly know what you could do with it! I'm surprised there aren't more incidents of this nature, I guess lack of knowledge is the best prevention.

Could I suggest that a glimpse or ten of a rear cab view can be found by standing in the rear vestibule of a 142. When the guard comes out of the cab, in my experience, he or she will leave the door to swing while reaching up to release the doors...

 

[D2022]

t

I think BestWestern and I have had this conversation in the past, but I've seen those keys on ebay for god's sake. I even have reasonable suspicion that one of my family members has one - I could just go and pick it up and jump on the nearest 158 and sell 50% of the trim for scrap. Or just pop the doors open waiting at a signal. What if you worked on a heritage railway? You would probably have one and almost certainly know what you could do with it! I'm surprised there aren't more incidents of this nature, I guess lack of knowledge is the best prevention.

Could I suggest that a glimpse or ten of a rear cab view can be found by standing in the rear vestibule of a 142. When the guard comes out of the cab, in my experience, he or she will leave the door to swing while reaching up to release the doors...

Preservation presents an issue, I used to work in heritage and found having the keys off site was an offence. Yet I travelled by train every day. So technically a member of the public, ie me, had a full set of EP, B.R.1, t-key, HST power car security door and a set of keys for SDO and CDL (Both were different so don't know if they would work on a HST, but I've got a HST door key anyway).

Fun times if the fell into the wrong hands.

 

[MattRobinson]

Surely if you're working on a heritage railway and you've been trusted to be in possession of them, you should be sensible enough to carry them around without wanting to use them. You should also be sensible enough to not lose them, because they should stay in your pocket or bag.

Just because you're working on a preserved railway doesn't mean that the trains you are operating are any less dangerous: arguably, more so, because you're not dealing trains day in, day out; and there's fewer safety interlocks on stock/heritage equipment isn't as responsive (eg, vacuum brakes are less powerful than air brakes).

Edit to add that I've had a few cab rides at KWVR, both on steam engines and diesel engines. They're very enjoyable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dave1987]

Surely if you're working on a heritage railway and you've been trusted to be in possession of them, you should be sensible enough to carry them around without wanting to use them. You should also be sensible enough to not lose them, because they should stay in your pocket or bag.

Just because you're working on a preserved railway doesn't mean that the trains you are operating are any less dangerous: arguably, more so, because you're not dealing trains day in, day out; and there's fewer safety interlocks on stock/heritage equipment isn't as responsive (eg, vacuum brakes are less powerful than air brakes).

Edit to add that I've had a few cab rides at KWVR, both on steam engines and diesel engines. They're very enjoyable.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Sorry but you cannot compare operating heritage stock at 25mph with mainline trains that run at speeds of 100+mph.

 

[MattRobinson]

Sorry but you cannot compare operating heritage stock at 25mph with mainline trains that run at speeds of 100+mph.

Why not? The only differences in many cases is the line speed. A train travelling at 25mph on a heritage line will inflict as much damage as one travelling on the mainline at 25mph. Granted the mainline speeds are generally much faster, but heritage lines can also be dangerous.

As I said before, heritage stock doesn't have the brake force that modern stock has and it often has a more restrictive view. The crews, although excellent and very knowledgeable, aren't working on the railways day in day out, especially when doing things that aren't part of everyday working, such as ballast drops, etc. Quite honestly, saying that working on heritage lines isn't as hazardous as working on the mainline is wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[notadriver]

He didn't say it isn't hazardous - he said the two can't be compared and heritage operations aren't scrutinised to the same standards as the main line. This is why heritage drivers can't drive on the main line.

 

[MattRobinson]

But it doesn't change the fact that anyone who has been given carriage keys and diesel keys by a heritage railway is still responsible for the safety of a large group of people, and as such should be sensible enough not to mess around with the keys when travelling by public transport, which was my original point.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[notadriver]

If staff of a proper TOC misuse keys and go where they shouldn't why would staff belonging to a heritage outfit be any different ?

 

[D2022]

He didn't say it isn't hazardous - he said the two can't be compared and heritage operations aren't scrutinised to the same standards as the main line. This is why heritage drivers can't drive on the main line.

That's an interesting statement about drivers, the guy who trained me for a while was a traction inspector for BR and signed more classes mainline than probably everyone on here put together. He could drive things like 50s and 37s mainline and in heritage.

 

[Boothby97]

Many people say they have had the oppurtunity to have a cab ride in a Locomotive but I've had the chance to go on a 185 from Grimsby to Cleethorpes a few years back (and got a chance at the horn on the approach to Suggets Lane foot crossing but the tone was a bit wrong)
Thanks, Sam

 

[jamieP]

That's an interesting statement about drivers, the guy who trained me for a while was a traction inspector for BR and signed more classes mainline than probably everyone on here put together. He could drive things like 50s and 37s mainline and in heritage.

They do at the NYMR.

 

[notadriver]

That's an interesting statement about drivers, the guy who trained me for a while was a traction inspector for BR and signed more classes mainline than probably everyone on here put together. He could drive things like 50s and 37s mainline and in heritage.

Then he's not a heritage driver but a main line driver doing heritage work on days off which is fairly common. My point is you can't work your way up on a heritage railway and expect to he allowed to drive main line.

 

[D2022]

Then he's not a heritage driver but a main line driver doing heritage work on days off which is fairly common. My point is you can't work your way up on a heritage railway and expect to he allowed to drive main line.

The other way around. He began his career in heritage before being offered a job by a TOC.

 

[notadriver]

When was this ? In BR days I expect.

 

[LE Greys]

This makes me wonder if some preserved lines aren't missing a trick. Would it make sense for a line with fairly modern DMUs to open up as a training ground on non-operating days? Rail-connected ones could even bring in a spare main line unit, assuming one is available. It seems like a nice little money-spinner for the line, and a safe environment away from regular traffic for the trainees. It would probably cost more than a simulator, but would provide a realistic experience.