Train Describer Messages

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by E_Reeves, 22 Jun 2018.

  1. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

    Messages:
    5,639
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2009
    When noting a train that is going to be late departing it seems to often be practice to place the delay code as the note, eg -TG- for awaiting driver.
     
  2. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    The **** is what is technically known as an N.D.A (No Description Alarm) ...
    A no description alarm is where a movement is taking place but no description has been entered into that actual berth etc, so the moment that particular track circuit berth gets shunted (& the track circuit becomes occupied) the signaller will receive an audible warning & a visual **** as an N.D.A. illuminated within that actual berth/section to alert them that a TC berth is showing occupied with no description interposed & to take action/update if required.


    Sometimes as a signaller you would update it simply by going to the TD (Train Describer) keyboard & calling up that particular berth then typing.....say....0J00 (for example if it was a light engine going to Newton Heath) then pressing 'Interpose' to enter it onto the system....but in some cases like an unsignalled move or Single Line Working/bang road working it just wouldn't be worth it, as working in the wrong direction the berths wouldn't (in some cases) update themselves & travel in the wrong direction, so you would be forever manually updating the TD berths section by section as the train moved along, so for something like an unsignalled wrong direction move/SLW/loco runround etc you'd often just leave them all as NDAs then clear them all out manually after the movement has taken place.

    Back in the 1990s when only we signallers could see them we sometimes (depending on who you were working with) sent our own unofficial messages in the berths

    At Christmas it was usual to see MERY XMAS LINE SHUT
    But if joking around sometimes we'd enter something like NEED BREW
    Or if you couldn't get through to a neighbouring box/fringe box on the phone or something you'd transmit something to them like ANSR FONE

    One one memorable occasion back in the 90s we,d had trouble with an ECS 142 that had failed in section between Deansgate Junction & Northenden Junction & after getting it assisted with another ECS (Going to the same destination, Piccadilly) I (after agreeing it with Northenden) changed the train description from something like 5H31 to something more fitting.....it was........5H1T

    (Only Northenden Junction & myself could see this description), but for a few minutes & for around 3 miles of travel we had a 4 car ECS for Piccadilly running as "5H1T".

    Other times when train failures/incidents have taken place I have seen the TD berths in other PSB boxes updated to........
    NAKA (Knackared Failed Train)
    JUNK (Same as above)
    CRAP (Same as above)
    *POS (Piece Of 5h1t....same as above)
    *OOO (Out Of Order)
    FITR (Fitters Attention)
    NOGO (Not To Go/Going Nowhere/Do Not Use)
    WATR (Lineside Flooding)
    FIRE (Fire Brigade Attendance)
    BASH (Bridge Bashed)
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2018
  3. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    *T3* is an engineers absolute possession of the line/line blockage (used to be section T in the old BR rule book)
     
  4. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    I would say so yes.
     
  5. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    Probably the S&T techs testing the TC or berth etc
     
  6. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    MIFT = Manchester International Freight Terminal
     
  7. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    NAKA is basically a play on the term a "Knacker" & it dates back to horses & horsepower.
    To "Knacker" a horse means to castrate it & to castrate a horse it would obviously have to have it's testicles removed (AKA it's Knackers) & in doing so you would De knacker it (later shortened to "Knackering" it).
    In "Knackering" a horse it was said that although it calmed it down, if done badly it would ruin it & remove it's strength thus making it no good & often unable to any real work thus making it useless.

    Hence Knackared
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2018
  8. 4-SUB 4732

    4-SUB 4732 Member

    Messages:
    437
    Joined:
    7 Jan 2018
    Correct - if the track circuit occupies with no headcode input it will automatically enter ****.
     
  9. exsignalman

    exsignalman Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    Personally the use of using a simple 4 character TD berth to store a short personal & local reminder be it jargon or not was (& no doubt still is) only ever used as an ADDITIONAL personal aid often to back up an OFFICIAL REMINDER DEVICE.

    The signaller could in effect just use a reminder device & magnetic sign & then do nothing to the berth......leave the description blank...or filled with an NDA **** (Berth Alarm) or with just a reporting number there.

    But what is safer??

    A reminder device used with a blank berth or NDA ****

    Or a reminder device used in conjunction with a short unofficial message interposed into a berth to remind YOU what you have done & why, plus it now shows to others what you are doing also.

    As a signaller/signalman you would also inform all concerned of what you were doing, what was going on, agree the course of action in accordance with the rules & regs & then come to a clear & proper understanding with all concerned.

    Jargon or not, if it reminds YOU (the signaller working the job) & prevents you from making a mistake......then it can't be a bad thing.
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2018
  10. GW43125

    GW43125 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,731
    Joined:
    8 Dec 2014
    Or *X** as some older Southern region schemes used.

    There's an old story of a signaller who couldn't get through to the next 'box so typed "BOWL" and "LOKS" in two adjacent berths. This prompted a phone call which was answered with "you're awake then!"
     
  11. Sunset route

    Sunset route Member

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    27 Oct 2015
    You can also interpose **** via the quick keys, very handy when you want to stop a code from rippling through multi berths in a platform when reversing in a platform. Lewes use it all the time with the Brighton to Lewes terminators in their platform five.

    I used to use it on Selhusrt Departure road* on the rear berth if there was a train going into the Depot on the arrival road* at the same as it would take both codes and I’d rather I’ll lose a **** than the outward train ID.

    * each exit signal had three TD berths associated with them ie signal T68 had 0068, R068 & RR68
     
  12. WL113

    WL113 Member

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    9 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Rugeley, Staffordshire
    Often see symbolic messages in TD berths to mark events such as Signal Box closures etc.

    today Old Oak Common depot closed with due honours. OOC.jpg OOC.jpg OOC.jpg OOC.jpg
     
  13. AMD

    AMD Member

    Messages:
    87
    Joined:
    6 Dec 2017
    And a recent one when a 142 decided to die on us.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. crosscity

    crosscity Member

    Messages:
    289
    Joined:
    5 Dec 2011
    Location:
    Birmingham
    This is a bit sad. All closed.jpg
    This is a screenshot from 'Railcam' taken on Sat 20 Oct 2018 at 00:42. It shows messages from Milner Royd and Halifax signalboxes to York ROC after the very last trains had passed and the L&Y manual boxes closed for good.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. AlexNL

    AlexNL Member

    Messages:
    897
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2014
    Spotted this one (Local Control?) around West Ealing:

    upload_2018-12-10_3-21-5.png
     
  16. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

    Messages:
    1,155
    Joined:
    8 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Glossop
    Quite a busy one at Stockport last night:

    Screenshot_20181210-185156_Chrome.jpg
     
  17. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

    Messages:
    2,995
    Joined:
    29 Nov 2012
    Location:
    Norwich
    That's not busy, that's a simple station block under a T3 possession.

    This is why people need to understand what these are.
     
  18. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

    Messages:
    1,155
    Joined:
    8 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Glossop
    I perfectly understand what it is - I was referring to the fact that there was a lot of late running if I remember correctly so the station was quite busy.

    I know what a T3 is...
     
  19. E_Reeves

    E_Reeves Established Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2015
    Location:
    West Midlands
    Interesting to see all northbound fasts going through p2 at Nuneaton and stoppers into p3, but looking further up there is KRAC on the fast line, so makes sense to have the platforms swapped so everything can filter onto the slow line.
     

Share This Page