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TransPennine Express North Route, New Timetable

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pdq

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I'm on a monthly 2-5, costing £111.40p. Using their formula (If I'm not making a massive schoolboy error!) I'll receive £27.85 which would seem rather harsh on those like yourself using annual passes.
It has to be pro-rata on the amount paid: you will pay a lot more than me over a year, as I also get the corporate 15% discount on mine from work, so whilst the actual level on compensation is more for you, you also paid more than me for the same product in the first place. My monthly charge (if I divide by 12) is £79.40 so I'll get 30% of that back.
 
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johntea

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I have a 1-6 MetroCard, although only monthly so I'll be surprised if I still have my May/June ones as I usually just dispose of them since the text is usually so worn by that point anyway! Can they trace my history on the system of purchases? (I note they always scan/type in my photocard number each month when I get a new one!)

More a Northern traveller but presumably they'll have a similar scheme coming up.
 

Kieran1990

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I have an annual Leeds-Manchester Season. Purchased from Leeds station. Travel TPE there and back each day but not brought directly from TPE. Can I claim through this?
Not an expert when it comes to season tickets
 

Bungle965

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I have a 1-6 MetroCard, although only monthly so I'll be surprised if I still have my May/June ones as I usually just dispose of them since the text is usually so worn by that point anyway! Can they trace my history on the system of purchases? (I note they always scan/type in my photocard number each month when I get a new one!)

More a Northern traveller but presumably they'll have a similar scheme coming up.
Northern's scheme is already underway.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/season-ticket-compensation
Sam
 

johntea

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Not too impressed with that scheme (it was kept under the radar too as I certainly didn't know it had started until you pointed the link out in this thread!), West Yorkshire hasn't been hit the worst but plenty of 5-10 minute delays on lines cause quite large knock on effects to my connections!

Oh well, I'll just keep claiming the individual delays and hope one day Northern will actually think about dealing with them rather than them being sat there for weeks on end 'under review'!
 

pdq

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The scheme is live today, but it's glitchy (or not tested/proofread).
https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/may-timetable-compensation then links to https://compensation.tpexpress.co.uk/ where one enters season ticket and journey details.
However... some TPE stations (ie where they call) are not listed, Batley being mine. No problem, the page reads
If your station is not listed, or you require any further information or assistance, please contact our dedicated team via email at [email protected] or by phone on 0345 600 1671 (option 1) Mon to Fri 08:00 to 20:00
That phone number, with option one, just quotes the NRE number then hangs up. The email address bounces back! I used the phone number again and navigated the options to get through to customer relations. No dedicated team, and they didn't seem aware of this special scheme. They did give me another email address which has at least logged the call with a reference - [email protected].
Will see what happens next.
 

Jamesrob637

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14:55 Middlesbrough to MIA only 3-car and nothing on Journey Check. Very crowded at Leeds. 16:18 to Manchester Vic only 2-car also but that's for a Northern thread. Train lengthening can surely be but welcome for the regulars.
 

pemma

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West Yorkshire hasn't been hit the worst but plenty of 5-10 minute delays on lines cause quite large knock on effects to my connections!

That's the kind of thing covered by the normal Delay Repay scheme. The additional compensation is because some people found their regular train to or from work cancelled most days.
 

BMIFlyer

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14:55 Middlesbrough to MIA only 3-car and nothing on Journey Check. Very crowded at Leeds. 16:18 to Manchester Vic only 2-car also but that's for a Northern thread. Train lengthening can surely be but welcome for the regulars.

Due to a fatality involving a 185 unit 2 days ago we are short of units. The unit involved is still being repaired.

This is why we could have made use of the Mk3 sets but alas, various factors stopped that.

TPE took the top 2 places on DfT's most overcrowded train list for autumn 2017 with 04:22 Glasgow to Manchester Airport coming first with a standard class load factor of 212% and 16:00 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh coming second. Usual caveats apply.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ces-england-and-wales-autumn-2017.csv/preview

That will no doubt not be valid now as the trains mentioned no longer call at Wigan or Man Oxford Rd.
 

Solent&Wessex

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The MD of TPE said yesterday that "[discussing forthcoming Northern changes from 29th July] … We are anticipating that further changes will be made within the next few weeks by ourselves to deliver further performance and reliability. Once we have fine details finalised, and we expect to do that in a very short period of time, then we will obviously share them more widely....including any implications we have for our services and our front line operation and service delivery".

Some suggestion from elsewhere that these changes may include the rescheduling of the "stopping train" now operated by TPE between Manchester and Leeds and alterations to the stopping pattern of the Hull service.
 

Kieran1990

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The MD of TPE said yesterday that "[discussing forthcoming Northern changes from 29th July] … We are anticipating that further changes will be made within the next few weeks by ourselves to deliver further performance and reliability. Once we have fine details finalised, and we expect to do that in a very short period of time, then we will obviously share them more widely....including any implications we have for our services and our front line operation and service delivery".

Some suggestion from elsewhere that these changes may include the rescheduling of the "stopping train" now operated by TPE between Manchester and Leeds and alterations to the stopping pattern of the Hull service.


Now that is welcome news, that they are going to tweak things for us on the North TPE route.

Anyone care to speculate about potential alterations? Doubt they will go the whole hog and split the stopper at Huddersfield
 

dilbertphil

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I really can't see any massive changes. You will probably see services altered by a couple of minutes. The Leeds stopper might get more attention as that seems to cause delays to almost every Scarborough train.
 

Solent&Wessex

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I really can't see any massive changes. You will probably see services altered by a couple of minutes. The Leeds stopper might get more attention as that seems to cause delays to almost every Scarborough train.

It only causes a delay because everything is so tightly timed that there is no leeway for anything late.

The stopper is due through Stalybridge at xx29. 3 minutes behind the 1Pxx to Middlesbrough which passes through at xx26.

1Pxx to Middlesbrough is often a few minutes late so the Stopper gets held outside Stalybridge to wait for it. That makes the stopper a few minutes late too.

The Stopper is next overtaken by the Scarborough service at Dewsbury. The stopper is dew to arrive at Dewsbury at xx05. The Scarborough is timed to pass Dewsbury at xx08. Allowing for the signal gaps, time to change the points and clear the signals once the stopper is in the Platform road, then 3 minutes difference is not enough. Especially as the stopper only has 3 minutes room at Stalybridge.

So, 1Pxx to Middlesbrough is 5 late. This delays the stopper by 2 to 3 minutes. Assuming you have a good crew and good unit then you can just about keep to time and arrive at Dewsbury 2 to 3 minutes late. By which time the Scarborough will be also 2 to 3 minutes late as it is booked right behind it anyway. Similar applies in the other direction.

In reality the much vaunted 15 minute headway of fast trains simply doesn't allow enough time for the stoppers - of any colour and TOC and stopping pattern - to get out and do their stuff and get back in the next passing place without causing delay, unless every single train is on time all of the time. Which we know never happens.
 

BeHereNow

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Exactly right. Bid the timetable maxxed out to the margins, and when it goes wrong it's someone else's fault.
 

Geeves

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When I worked at Greenfield I was surprised to see how well the stopping train ran, all the passengers seemed happy. As has been said though the 1Pxx services are a total hash with the majority never even making it to Vic. The Newcastle via the chord services are also a farce. Very happy to see TPE are going to look at some adjustments lord knows they need it.
 

nr758123

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Because of successive cancellations, a three-hour gap in both directions tonight with no trains stopping at either Mossley or Slaithwaite. Though within that time about 14 of TPEs trains passing through without stopping. Anyone going for the first of those cancelled trains at Piccadilly would have taken 2¾ hours to travel the eight miles to Mossley (or more likely, given up and made other travel arrangements instead).

The whole thing is unworkable and the "six trains an hour" gimmick needs to be abandoned.
 

Solent&Wessex

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The whole thing is unworkable and the "six trains an hour" gimmick needs to be abandoned.

The six trains an hour is not the issue.
There were 6 trains an hour between Lds and Man before the timetable change - 5 x TPE and 1 x Northern stopper each side of Huddersfield. The 1 x Northern stopper split at Hud has no become a TPE stopper running through. So, overall, there are no more trains now than there was before.

The problem, as highlighted above, is not that the number of trains has increased (it hasn't - although in reality it would be better with 1 or 2 less) but that the spacing between the trains has changed to try and create an even 15 minute interval of "fast trains" which means there isn't enough time for the stopping trains to get out and do their thing. It is the spacing between the trains which is the principal problem.
 

nr758123

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The six trains an hour is not the issue.
There were 6 trains an hour between Lds and Man before the timetable change - 5 x TPE and 1 x Northern stopper each side of Huddersfield. The 1 x Northern stopper split at Hud has no become a TPE stopper running through. So, overall, there are no more trains now than there was before.

I agree. The "six fast trains an hour" thing was the big headline from around 2011-12. When some thought was given to how the places in between fitted in, this evolved into the skip-stopping proposal and the even 15' spacing on the fastest trains. In reality it's not six fast trains an hour, when one of those trains makes 10 intermediate calls and is overtaken and another makes 6. But there has been fairly recent publicity claiming "six trains an hour" as something new and wonderful.
 

nr758123

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This could probably go into a number of different current threads, but I'll post it here in the context of its references to TPEs poor performance and lack of transparency.

From a report published today by the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, entitled "Devolving our railways: Learning the lessons from a summer of Northern rail chaos". http://northernpowerhouseappg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ral-devolution.pdf

Some of the wording is rather more, shall we say, direct than might normally be expected in a report of this nature.

“[Northern] did, however, recognise the scale of the situation and after two weeks implemented an emergency timetable – something TransPennine Express failed to do despite appalling performance, with up to half of trains seriously late or cancelled on some routes and days, with the worst performance in the country on this measure for the last three months.”

“Trans Pennine have also not co-operated with us on this report; a lack of transparency that is unhelpful.”

“In the aftermath of the timetable change, Northern accepted quickly the need to adopt an emergency timetable. However, Trans Pennine Express did not take the opportunity to adopt an emergency timetable, despite the fact …. that they have been cancelling 15% of their trains, or seeing them arrive more than 30 minutes late.”

“To compound matters, Trans Pennine Express have dealt with their lack of resilience …… by regularly cancelling trains at either ends of routes early.”

“This lack of responsiveness by First Group ….. makes this franchise in need of greater ongoing scrutiny by Rail North, with commuter towns to Leeds such as Dewsbury and Batley, alongside Stalybridge and the communities between there and Huddersfield, seeing sustained problems which have yet to be substantively improved.”
 

YorkshireBear

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This could probably go into a number of different current threads, but I'll post it here in the context of its references to TPEs poor performance and lack of transparency.

From a report published today by the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, entitled "Devolving our railways: Learning the lessons from a summer of Northern rail chaos". http://northernpowerhouseappg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ral-devolution.pdf

Some of the wording is rather more, shall we say, direct than might normally be expected in a report of this nature.
A scathing and welcome indictment.
 

cuccir

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I think it's clear that TPE are deliberately keeping quiet and letting Northern take the publicity hit, in the hope that their own problems will be overlooked.
 

wellhouse

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I think it's clear that TPE are deliberately keeping quiet and letting Northern take the publicity hit, in the hope that their own problems will be overlooked.

The thing is, in the next few months the Northern timetable is likely to become achievable as Network Rail completes upgrades, stock is cascaded as electrification projects are completed, and drivers are trained.

The TPE timetable lacks the resilience to be achievable even after the delayed infrastructure projects are commissioned.
 

Allwinter_Kit

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The thing is, in the next few months the Northern timetable is likely to become achievable as Network Rail completes upgrades, stock is cascaded as electrification projects are completed, and drivers are trained.

The TPE timetable lacks the resilience to be achievable even after the delayed infrastructure projects are commissioned.

I completely agree. Whilst I think it has mostly been Northern who have had the most delayed trains, this is due to short term problems. As these get ironed out I think the lack of slack in the TPE timetable will prove to be the long term problem. Come May '19 we might have Northern arguing with TPE about their late-running trains snarling up Manchester rather than the other way round!

Trouble is that this also means the 'Manchester is a complete timetabling mess which has ramifications across the whole of the North' problem will be a recurring one rather than just related to the present timetable iteration.
 

notlob.divad

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Trouble is that this also means the 'Manchester is a complete timetabling mess which has ramifications across the whole of the North' problem will be a recurring one rather than just related to the present timetable iteration.

As it was always going to be following the decision to build a new section of track to increase the number of trains already running down the most congested bit of track in the North of England. It is not just the number of trains being forced down the Castlefield Corridor, but the diverse nature of those trains (Freight + Local + Intercity) but also the vast array of directions they appear from and depart to, meaning no route is immune from disruption on any other route.
 

43074

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I completely agree. Whilst I think it has mostly been Northern who have had the most delayed trains, this is due to short term problems. As these get ironed out I think the lack of slack in the TPE timetable will prove to be the long term problem. Come May '19 we might have Northern arguing with TPE about their late-running trains snarling up Manchester rather than the other way round!

Trouble is that this also means the 'Manchester is a complete timetabling mess which has ramifications across the whole of the North' problem will be a recurring one rather than just related to the present timetable iteration.

Indeed, the problems like the well documented pathing issues at Malton in the TPE Scarborough thread or the short turnarounds at Manchester Airport are almost so fundamental to the timetable that they cannot be solved without quite significant rewriting. That's half the difficulty with TPE, there isn't an obvious simple fix to their problems at all, even the new stock won't solve them (although it will provide much welcome additional capacity). This is unlike the Northern case where it's largely a case of waiting for infrastructure enhancements to be completed and getting driver route knowledge up to the standard it needs to be.
 

Boysteve

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Is there an opportunity to tweak the 15 minute frequency? After all it already slightly broken at the Leeds end with the one fast that stops at Dewsbury. If the split was 12mins/18/12/18 throughout the hour then it would give slightly more breathing space for the stopper. However this has to be accommodated East of Leeds and West out of Victoria.
 

DaiGog

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As a daily commuter on TPE from Dewsbury via Leeds, the experience is markedly less pleasant and less convenient than it was before the May timetable change. Despite everywhere having either the same number of trains, or more trains, per hour, they have managed to make it worse.

As described above, the spacing between key trains through the core on the north route and the tight turnarounds do not work. Throw crew changes into the mix and it only compounds matters as TPE do a lot of theirs at Manchester Victoria, and Northern at Oxford Road, so they will get in each other's way if relief crews are late or absent.

Everything is crowded in the peaks - for example what was a 6 car set in the evening peak (1740 from Leeds) is now a 3 car, with 3 additional stops to make west of Leeds. Everything is slower as a result of additional calls. Many peak services run late; for example the aforementioned 1740 from Leeds is frequently on time on the approach to Leeds, but then leaves 5 late after trying to get everyone boarded (often leaving people behind), spends two minutes at Batley disgorging some of the crowds, and drops to 8 or 9 late by Dewsbury (an 11 minute journey). The 0654 from Dewsbury has departed at 0654 just once since May, and the 0710 is cancelled at least once per week in my estimation.

Heading west from Dewsbury, the one positive is that it has its direct service to Manchester Airport back (although the through service to Liverpool has gone, which was also useful). If you're travelling to Manchester Piccadilly, however, it's worse than it was, despite having three services per hour instead of two. One of these is the Hull-Manchester, which has additional stops at Slaithwaite and Mossley, so is slower than before; the second is the Middlesbrough - Manchester Airport, which gets to Victoria nice and quickly, but if you're going to Piccadilly it's slower than the HUL-MAN; the third is the all stations service, which is tedious and takes forever - but it's not worth letting it go in favour of a faster service, even changing at Huddersfield, as you won't get to Piccadilly any quicker.

It used to be quite good, really, once the 5 TPH timetable bedded down. Generally speaking, there was an appropriate level of capacity where it was needed, in the form of enough 6-car sets, following some good work in the previous franchise. Almost three months on, this timetable is still rubbish; it's less of a pleasant experience and more of an endurance test.
 
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YorkshireBear

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06:50 Leeds to Manchester Airport today is the first time I've been on an on time service round the chord (admittedly this isn't my usual morning train).

Also first time I've got from Victoria to Oxford Road without stopping at any signals.
 
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