Tube to change 'ladies and gentlemen' announcements

[alxndr]

There are some non-binary* people who are very happy about the switch, and I haven't got an issue with changing something for their comfort, especially as it makes it more inclusive for everyone. Lots of people don't necessary feel as though they're included by the categories "lady" and "gentleman" either through class/age/gender identity. At the end of the day, it's a big issue for them, and something which has little to no effect on the rest of us.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of "Hello everyone". It's simply too informal, and I'm unlikely to immediately recognise it as an official announcement, I'm more likely to think it's a tour guide. I'd rather they err on the side of formality with "Dear customers/passengers", "Good morning/afternoon/evening", "If I could have your attention please" etc. For context, I was born in the mid 90s (whatever that makes me).


*non-binary: people who identify as neither male nor female, both, or another combination thereof.

 

[Mojo]

Indeed it was, replacing the previously used: "customer information . . . " standard.

"Customer service update" is the correct introduction for the service status recorded by station staff messages, since at least 2014, possibly earlier. However Rule Book 11 states that station staff must start all service information announcements with "Ladies and gentlemen," except for routine announcements.

 

[BML247]

How much is this going to cost? ?

probably a days wages if that.

Surely the money is better spent on disabillity access to the stations instead.

how much disability access would one days wages get you? You are aware that TfL already spend large sums of money on disability access don't you? And you do know that there is a different pot of money for such projects of which announcements is not one of them?

I know the difference would be large but every little helps... I simply can't believe people nowadays have enough free time to be offended by an automated announcement at a train station, isn't it a little blown out of proportion

yes it has been , totally. You yourself have already blown it out of proportion in your post

 

[RJ]

I'll be changing my rail replacement bus announcement greeting from "Ladies and gentlemen" to "Good afternoon/evening/morning dear passengers", starting from next weekend on the District Line job. Minor.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sayer Hamilton have put a little post on their FB page suggesting that TFL have already contracted the new announcements with suppliers.

 

[BestWestern]

I'll be changing my rail replacement bus announcement greeting from "Ladies and gentlemen" to "Good afternoon/evening/morning dear passengers", starting from next weekend on the District Line job. Minor.

I hope your vehicle is suitably equipped with a gender-neutral lavatory?!

 

[matt_world2004]

How much is this going to cost? Surely the money is better spent on disabillity access to the stations instead. I know the difference would be large but every little helps... I simply can't believe people nowadays have enough free time to be offended by an automated announcement at a train station, isn't it a little blown out of proportion?

More sparing use of language can help people with learning disabilities understand announcements better

 

[BestWestern]

More sparing use of language can help people with learning disabilities understand announcements better

This particular ammendment has absolutely nothing to do with helping those with learning difficulties, though. It is intended entirely for those who are offended at the concept that human beings are male or female.

 

[matt_world2004]

This particular ammendment has absolutely nothing to do with helping those with learning difficulties, though. It is intended entirely for those who are offended at the concept that human beings are male or female.

Does not being reffered to as a gendered pronoun offend you?

 

[BestWestern]

Does not being reffered to as a gendered pronoun offend you?

Nope. Nor do I expect or require major public organisations to change announcements to suit.

 

[RJ]

I hope your vehicle is suitably equipped with a gender-neutral lavatory?!

Nope, I only drive London area rail replacements, mostly with TfL spec buses

 

[matt_world2004]

Nope. Nor do I expect or require major public organisations to change announcements to suit.

I dont think they are going to go out of their way to record new announcements to remove ladies and gentlemen none of the pre recorded on train announcements use the term. This will apply for all future announcements.

I would personally rather that announcements got rid of all formailities and went in the formst of <purpose of announcement> announcment

Eg:"Service information there are severe delays on the central line due to a signal failure"they shouldnt even say. There is a good service on all other london underground lines as that can pretty much be implied through the lack of announcement detailing disruption on other lines

 

[Via Bank]

Nope. Nor do I expect or require major public organisations to change announcements to suit.

And what about the people who are neither, and would benefit from public address announcements that don't implicitly exclude them?

This is literally 'remove a bit of audio from the front of an announcement and replace it with "good morning/afternoon/evening" or a chime.' £400 max for a voiceover, or the low low price of free if you happen to have a bontempi organ to record a chime.

I can't help but feel like the moral panic from certain people about "pampering"(???) to a "minor issue" has more to do with resentment that TfL is daring to keep in mind people who are different from them, and perhaps outside their frame of reference.

 

[yorkie]

This is a classic thread that reveals more about the general attitudes of the poster rather than the content of the story.

Very true. It can be useful and interesting to see who the intolerant ones are.

If it is such a "minor" issue to those people, they wouldn't be fussed about it, and therefore wouldn't be outraged

... I simply can't believe people nowadays have enough free time to be offended by an automated announcement at a train station, isn't it a little blown out of proportion?

So far the only evidence I've seen of people being 'offended' (if that's the right term) are those who are quite vocal against the change

 

[urbophile]

If as your forum name suggests, you are in or from the north, and maybe you don't live in as diverse a society as those who are in London and the south-east.

??? London is undoubtedly more diverse in terms of ethnicity and has a higher proportion of non-British born residents than most places. But I find it hard to believe that the proportion of people identifying as any of the LGBTIQA categories is significantly different.

Why should anyone get worked up about such a minor suggestion? 'Ladies and Gentlemen' excludes not just intersex people but children, and until the 19th century excluded the majority of the population since the terms indicated high social status. 'Hello everyone' is just as polite, more informal and friendly, and less archaic.

 

[BestWestern]

Very true. It can be useful and interesting to see who the intolerant ones are.

If it is such a "minor" issue to those people, they wouldn't be fussed about it, and therefore wouldn't be outraged

So far the only evidence I've seen of people being 'offended' (if that's the right term) are those who are quite vocal against the change

In fairness, I don't think anyone has been intolerant. Questioning the proposal, certainly, but I don't recall anybody directly attacking those it is aimed at.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Have you ever been to Manchester? It's probably in many ways the most cosmopolitan city in the UK, including London.

haw haw haw haw - what tosh it is a backward provincial hole with delusions of being something it most certainly is not.





as per the announcement - it is Steve Bell's fault for discovering the Neutoids (SDP)

 

[bramling]

I can't help but feel like the moral panic from certain people about "pampering"(???) to a "minor issue" has more to do with resentment that TfL is daring to keep in mind people who are different from them, and perhaps outside their frame of reference.

Obviously someone somewhere has been getting worked up, otherwise the issue would never have come to the fore.

Personally I have absolutely no issue with people doing or being whatever they wish, and would never judge anyone on the basis. As if this the rights or wrongs of this aren't enough, I have enough of interest in my own life to keep me occupied without worrying too much about what others are doing.

*However*, I object to people being pigeon-holed based on characteristics or preferences -- for example a gay person automatically being seen to be a "member of the LGBT community". Why does a characteristic, preference or lifestyle choice automatically make someone part of a "community", where all of a sudden others appear to speak on their behalf?

I remember a certain one-day course called "Valuing People", where the two gay men in the room were so incensed at some of the stuff being preached in the sexuality session that they told the trainer to f*ck herself and walked out.

Anything like this immediately makes me suspicious that the driving force is people trying to make a statement to further their own political agenda, rather than a genuine attempt to make life better for people.

Meanwhile, as has been articulated elsewhere, there is a side issue that "Hello everyone" sounds amateurish. A chime would be better, although someone somewhere would probably say that someone else would be offended by that. <sigh>

 

[Temple Meads]

*However*, I object to people being pigeon-holed based on characteristics or preferences

Which is the whole point, this is about a term that can cover everyone, including intersex people.

 

[GusB]

"Greetings, Earthlings" would probably avoid most offence.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

The important thing is a lead in that is long enough to get peopl's attention so that they listen to the important bit.

I must say that I am a little dubious about the whole non binary thing, it smacks a bit of telling young boys and girls that they are not properly male or female if they don't conform to traditional gender stereotypes.

i'm a bit dubious of people who aren't either clinicians or those with lived experinece turning round and negating or erasing people becasue it doesn;t fit their limited world view ...

 

[AnonymousUser1]

The important thing is a lead in that is long enough to get peopl's attention so that they listen to the important bit.

I must say that I am a little dubious about the whole non binary thing, it smacks a bit of telling young boys and girls that they are not properly male or female if they don't conform to traditional gender stereotypes.

i'm a bit dubious of people who aren't either clinicians or those with lived experinece turning round and negating or erasing people because it doesn't fit their limited world view ...

and as for those who claim not have had any experience with certain groups in society, i bet you have just you are too damn unobservant to spot the tells ...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Which is the whole point, this is about a term that can cover everyone, including intersex people.

What is wrong with a simple "Good Morning* everyone" start to an announcement?


*substitute "afternoon" and "evening" as required.

 

[Mojo]

What is wrong with a simple "Good Morning* everyone" start to an announcement?

*substitute "afternoon" and "evening" as required.

That is the preferred option. As I said earlier I've no idea where "hello everyone" came from; it seems to have been made up by the BBC.

 

[BrunswickGreen]

Typical PC brigade fixing a problem when it does not exist.

 

[NorthKent1989]

This might sound harsh but, aren't there bigger issues at hand? How is ladies and gentlemen offensive? I'm more concerned with the lack of step free access in some stations than whether you identify as man, woman, non binary etc, will this change make services run on time? Will our fares get cheaper? No, I know we have to be inclusive and I completely understand that, but isn't this just PC gone too far?? If your a transperson then won't this diminish their right to be identified as a man or woman if they've gone through the operation?

 

[bramling]

What is wrong with a simple "Good Morning* everyone" start to an announcement?


*substitute "afternoon" and "evening" as required.

In the short-term at least, the current software makes no provision for this. So automated announcements would have to be re-programmed three times per day.

(This would then no doubt lead to the wrong greeting getting played somewhere along the line, which doubtless someone would find offensive).

 

[EM2]

This might sound harsh but, aren't there bigger issues at hand? How is ladies and gentlemen offensive?

It's non-inclusive, which is a different thing entirely.
'Everyone' includes everyone.

 

[Greenback]

The only comment I can make is that I understand that there ar epeople who don't identify themselves as being ladies or gentlemen, but that's a matter for them. I'm not really sure if they would find a greeting that includes such words offensive, but the other side of the coin is that I don't find substituiting 'everyone' (or earthlings for that matter) offensive anyway.

The use of language will always evolve. I don't think that this is really newsworthy at all. I certainly don't think it merits anyone making a fuss about it

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In the short-term at least, the current software makes no provision for this. So automated announcements would have to be re-programmed three times per day.

(This would then no doubt lead to the wrong greeting getting played somewhere along the line, which doubtless someone would find offensive).

Come on London Underground, it's not rocket science is it?!