UK face coverings discussion

[Domh245]

On the topic of whether masks have made shops more or less busy, I've downloaded the google mobility report data and had a look. It seems to have had a negligible (/slightly negative) effect on grocery shopping, but more generic retail & other recreation locations have seen a marked increase. How much of this is down to masks encouraging people, or just simply more of these locations opening up, I couldn't say, although it does seem that it was on an upwards trajectory before the introduction of masks.

 

[BJames]

So looks like secondary schools could be next on the agenda for mandatory masks, if the media is anything to go by:

Coronavirus: Minister advised of 'benefit' of face coverings on older children

The chief scientific advisor says they could be worn in some settings in schools.

www.bbc.co.uk

Make face masks mandatory in secondary schools, teachers' union urges

Reopening rules now ‘out of step’ with wider public health guidance, NASUWT argues

www.independent.co.uk

There's even a petition for it: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/330227

I think it's inevitable that it will be mandatory in Universities in good time, but hopefully the Government actually see sense and don't mandate them in secondary schools. If it's difficult enough for the general public to wear them correctly, then I wouldn't expect anything better from teenagers wearing them for hours on end in a stifling hot classroom. It wouldn't be before long until they're flung about the corridors, trust me.

They are already being made mandatory in my uni.

In all fairness though if you read further on in that BBC article, the NI Education Minister said this:

On Thursday, when asked about face coverings by the BBC, he said: "We are not recommending face masks are used; we don't believe that's appropriate for children.

Accompanied though with the usual "we will continue to follow the science" etc.

I very much hope they don't try and get students to wear them in schools.

 

[Huntergreed]

They are already being made mandatory in my uni.

In all fairness though if you read further on in that BBC article, the NI Education Minister said this:

Accompanied though with the usual "we will continue to follow the science" etc.

I very much hope they don't try and get students to wear them in schools.

Likewise with my university, sounds like we might mostly be online too. It’s really not going to be an enjoyable term of university with many restrictions placed on gatherings, accommodation and mandated masks.

If they do try to do it in schools, I imagine a number of people will actively speak out against this, and I will happily actively protest against this. Our children have suffered enough, we need to get schools back to normal ASAP, children are at no risk let’s be realistic, we’ve deprived them of months of education, it’s not acceptable for us to deprive them of any more.

 

[jtuk]

Just walking to the pub now. Bloke on pavement opposite on a mobility scooter wearing mask. Pulls over, drops mask, has drag from cigarette, replaces mask and carries on. Words fail me.

 

[madannie77]

So looks like secondary schools could be next on the agenda for mandatory masks, if the media is anything to go by:

Coronavirus: Minister advised of 'benefit' of face coverings on older children

The chief scientific advisor says they could be worn in some settings in schools.

www.bbc.co.uk

Make face masks mandatory in secondary schools, teachers' union urges

Reopening rules now ‘out of step’ with wider public health guidance, NASUWT argues

www.independent.co.uk

There's even a petition for it: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/330227

I think it's inevitable that it will be mandatory in Universities in good time, but hopefully the Government actually see sense and don't mandate them in secondary schools. If it's difficult enough for the general public to wear them correctly, then I wouldn't expect anything better from teenagers wearing them for hours on end in a stifling hot classroom. It wouldn't be before ng until they're flung about the corridors, trust me.

Not quite sure what the Schools Minister means here. Is it that pupils are expected to wear masks in school buildings other than classrooms? The comment is buried quite some way down the article.

Speaking to the BBC on Saturday, Schools Minister Nick Gibb said pupils over 11 years of age will be expected to wear masks.

But he reiterated they will not be necessary in the classrooms as "there are a whole raft of other measures we've introduced in schools to make sure we minimise the risk of transmission".

"The advice we've had about wearing masks in school is if they're not competently handled you can actually increase the risk of spreading the virus," he said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53702291

I find the last sentence of that quote rather interesting. The government has advice that incompetently handled masks are harmful, yet still mandates their use in many places despite many people handling them incorrectly.

(sorry if I have the quoting format wrong - it is many years since I posted a link to an article and it doesn't look quite right to me)

 

[packermac]

Just walking to the pub now. Bloke on pavement opposite on a mobility scooter wearing mask. Pulls over, drops mask, has drag from cigarette, replaces mask and carries on. Words fail me.

So the guy has an addiction he is feeding but is responsible enough to where a mask where it is not mandatory, what is the problem?

 

[jtuk]

So the guy has an addiction he is feeding but is responsible enough to where a mask where it is not mandatory, what is the problem?

Trying to stop the 1 in thousands, if not millions, chance of spreading contagions in the exact combination of this guy:

a) having the virus
b) the mask stopping the spread of the virus
c) that spread he stopped actually infecting someone
d) that someone he infected either being part of the small population who are at risk from this, or later passing it on to someone who is

Is incompatible with the extremely obvious damage to his own health and the health of everyone around him caused by his smoking. It's incredible hypocrisy

 

[PTR 444]

Thinking about doing an open top bus tour in the next few days. I know face masks are compulsory all buses now, but can you get away without wearing one on the top deck of an open topper as it is in the open air?

 

[Huntergreed]

Thinking about doing an open top bus tour in the next few days. I know face masks are compulsory all buses now, but can you get away without wearing one on the top deck of an open topper as it is in the open air?

I doubt it sadly, they’re mandatory on open air ferries, open air stations and bus stops etc.

 

[adc82140]

Interesting shopping trip today. I was in the Oxfam bookshop (I am a collector of old OS maps). The poor lady behind the counter was struggling. She is hard of hearing and relies on lipreading. I told her I considered this a valid reason to remove my mask, and she was so relieved. She is behind perspex. I told her I thought it would be perfectly reasonable for her to ask customers to remove their face coverings so she could understand them.

 

[WestCoast]

Thinking about doing an open top bus tour in the next few days. I know face masks are compulsory all buses now, but can you get away without wearing one on the top deck of an open topper as it is in the open air?

The local open top tour passes outside my flat and everyone on the top deck was wearing a face covering when it passed half an hour ago so I would imagine the answer is yes.

 

[Journeyman]

The local open top tour passes outside my flat and everyone on the top deck was wearing a face covering when it passed half an hour ago so I would imagine the answer is yes.

I've seen people on open top buses in Edinburgh without masks.

 

[trainophile]

I doubt it sadly, they’re mandatory on open air ferries, open air stations and bus stops etc.

That's news to me. I understood that, in England at least, you don't have to wear one in those situations. No idea about ferries.

 

[trainophile]

Interesting shopping trip today. I was in the Oxfam bookshop (I am a collector of old OS maps). The poor lady behind the counter was struggling. She is hard of hearing and relies on lipreading. I told her I considered this a valid reason to remove my mask, and she was so relieved. She is behind perspex. I told her I thought it would be perfectly reasonable for her to ask customers to remove their face coverings so she could understand them.

Similarly, I have a naturally quiet voice, any attempt to make myself heard against background noise results in me pretty much having to shout. Recently a couple of times when I've had a mask on people have said they can't hear me. So I can either remove the mask or shout at them. One size certainly doesn't fit all with this ruling.

 

[Huntergreed]

That's news to me. I understood that, in England at least, you don't have to wear one in those situations. No idea about ferries.

In England it’s mandatory in “transport hubs”, which is classed as anywhere where public transport services can be accessed, so, by the letter of the law, it’s mandatory in these situations, although it’s unlikely they’ll be enforced in them I imagine.

 

[trainophile]

In England it’s mandatory in “transport hubs”, which is classed as anywhere where public transport services can be accessed, so, by the letter of the law, it’s mandatory in these situations, although it’s unlikely they’ll be enforced in them I imagine.

So the open air end of a long station platform comes under the face covering ruling? Also, a bus stop is generally in "the street", where so far they are not required. Very grey area.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Thinking about doing an open top bus tour in the next few days. I know face masks are compulsory all buses now, but can you get away without wearing one on the top deck of an open topper as it is in the open air?

The Edinburgh Bus Tours website states:

If you can, please wear a face covering if sitting downstairs or under the covered area upstairs.

Probably be worth checking with the operator before travelling, if you're bothered about it though.

 

[Journeyman]

From the CalMac ferries website:

Outside Decks - Face coverings may be removed if you are on outside decks of the vessels or when sat down outside and maintaining a physical distance greater than 2 metres from other passengers.

 

[adc82140]

The New Forest Tour round here is masks downstairs, not on the open top bit upstairs.

 

[PTR 444]

The New Forest Tour round here is masks downstairs, not on the open top bit upstairs.

This is the tour I was thinking of doing. On their website, it just states that “all customers travelling on the Tour will be required to wear face coverings and maintain social distancing”. I just presumed this to mean everywhere on the bus including the top deck, as there is nothing to say they CAN be taken off upstairs.

 

[adc82140]

The tour passes through here every hour or so. I think without fail everyone upstairs is maskless. Be aware you need to book in advance though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of interest, if you’re anti-mask in outdoor settings due to lack of evidence of effectiveness, why are you pro-mask in indoor non-clinical settings where there’s also a lack of evidence of effectiveness?

Because there is more evidence of spread indoors. You don't accept the evidence, you've stated as much, but it exists.

 

[trebor79]

So the guy has an addiction he is feeding but is responsible enough to where a mask where it is not mandatory, what is the problem?

Firstly the mask won't be protecting anyone outdoors.
Secondly, if he does have COVID, removing the mask to take a drag is going.to get virions al lover his hands to contaminate everything he touches.
Thirdly, the exhaled smoke from deep in his lungs is going to have virions attached to every particle, ready to be inhaled by someone else.

If he's wearing the mask in some misguided self-protection from COVID but continue to smoke, well.... One of the the medical advisors said very early in the pandemic "if ever there was a time to quite smoking, it is now."

 

[bramling]

Absolutely. My thing is football as opposed to museums or attractions like that - I'd typically go to upwards of 60-70 games a season, depending on how the fixture lists space out, obviously I've been to none since early March. I'd return to any event tomorrow - on my terms. I'll be renewing my Premier League season ticket, but if and when it reopens to fans and they only permit, say, a third in, then if they have any sort of mask requirement, I'll easily be taking a pro rata refund and letting someone else go, or letting a friend use my ticket that otherwise wouldn't have to travel. I certainly wouldn't consider doing something like a random visit to a new ground given how far away most of them are for me at this stage - last September I thought nothing of seeing a friend in Bristol to catch a game and put an easy £100+ into the railways and his local economy, but even if they let in fans tomorrow that's simply out of the question, 2.5-3 on a XC Voyager is unpleasant enough at the best of times

Yes, and there’s a secondary effect to all this. Next month our plan is to try and recover lost ground with some holidays, to make up for those cancelled earlier in the year.

Primarily we want to do outdoors stuff, but with U.K. weather always being a question mark I always like to have some reserve stuff to do in case the weather isn’t suitable for our plans. The thought now that we’d have to wear masks if visiting a castle, as well as the problem of having to book which means theres an element of lottery waking up and deciding to do something on a whim, is extremely off putting to be honest. Add in awkwardness over restaurants, and it isn’t really selling itself.

I am thus rather dubious about spending a couple of grand on something which seems a dread-ridden experience.

A work colleague said the same. She’s off to Scotland in a couple of weeks and is dreading it.

 

[adc82140]

I did Scotland last week. They are so much less uptight about masks etc. than the English. They will be fine.

 

[Hadders]

Announcement at Vauxhall Underground Station this evening:

You must wear a face covering when you travel on our services. If you do not you will be fined £100. If you are exempt you must apply for a badge at tfl.gov.uk

 

[DB]

Announcement at Vauxhall Underground Station this evening:

You must wear a face covering when you travel on our services. If you do not you will be fined £100. If you are exempt you must apply for a badge at tfl.gov.uk

Have TFL brought in a new byelaw about badges being 'required', or are they just giving out incorrect information?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Announcement at Vauxhall Underground Station this evening:

You must wear a face covering when you travel on our services. If you do not you will be fined £100. If you are exempt you must apply for a badge at tfl.gov.uk

What is it about staff making their own stuff up? You don't have to "apply for a badge" - it's a PDF on TfL's website - you just print it out yourself or show it on your phone, if you'd prefer not to have to open your mouth and say "I'm exempt".

It's a double sided thing, print on A4, fold and put in a pocket on a lanyard is probably going to be the most effective way to display it and avoid any hassle. Before anyone complains about cost, clear lanyards are no more expensive than reusable face coverings.

 

[island]

I doubt it sadly, they’re mandatory on open air ferries, open air stations and bus stops etc.

That's news to me. I understood that, in England at least, you don't have to wear one in those situations. No idea about ferries.

You are (mostly) correct. Masks are not required in outdoor stations or non-enclosed parts of station, except those managed by TfL.

In England it’s mandatory in “transport hubs”, which is classed as anywhere where public transport services can be accessed, so, by the letter of the law, it’s mandatory in these situations, although it’s unlikely they’ll be enforced in them I imagine.

No, it isn’t. See section 2 (4) of SI 2020/791 – the definition of “transport hub” includes the word “enclosed”.

 

[island]

Announcement at Vauxhall Underground Station this evening:

You must wear a face covering when you travel on our services. If you do not you will be fined £100. If you are exempt you must apply for a badge at tfl.gov.uk

Marginally better than the DLR I travelled on today, whose PSA made an announcement before setting off from Bank stating (incorrectly) nothing more than that all passengers must wear face coverings.