Virgin Trains Banning under 18`s from there stations and Gaurds threating customers?

[yorkie]

In light of what eos says I suggest you don't write a letter of complaint.

 

[37401]

How did you manage to shoot the youtube video of your day then?:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbnvlXlMUD0

Put my cam just outside the window but had most of the camera on the window frame
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Victorialine67 said ( in the first post):-
Did anyone witness any of your claims, as in being thrown out of the 1st class lounge, and not having your head out of the window on a moving train. What the video does show as well is that weather was diabolical, and with you keep opening the door intro the carriage ( Ok it was an air operated door) , with the outer door window open both sides, did it not occur that your shouting and general behaviour was causing problems with those First Class passengers who had paid a lot of dosh to be allowed to work en-route.

I also spoke to the other spotters on the platform, 'the regulars' , if they knew of what had happened. NOT ONE was happy with your behaviour , and it was expressed that you were not 'giving the hobby a good image'- their words. One said you should have been 'chucked off'. No one said that it was the fault of platform staff, or 'security staff'.

Ok 1stly there ere no other spotters there 2ndly his was a thursday o whatever they said on wednesday was not about us,also we wernt flailing nor were we giving the hobby a bad image as i have said before we were filming as we always do like most other spotters

2ndly we wernt in 1st class on the loco they were 1st clas carrages but they were acting as 2nd class thats why we were there so we didnt annoy any 1st class passengers and the carrage was empty.

also whats all this about the regualrs not been happpy with what we were doing 1stly they wernt there and secondly what gives you the right to start commenting on me and my friends actions and acting like you were there!

 

[ChrisMcFall]

P
2ndly we wernt in 1st class on the loco they were 1st clas carrages but they were acting as 2nd class thats why we were there so we didnt annoy any 1st class passengers and the carrage was empty.

I'm sure its classified on this...iirc it wasnt classified on 1P05 when i was on it, but now its in "regular" service it is i think.

 

[glynn80]

Ok 1stly there ere no other spotters there 2ndly his was a thursday o whatever they said on wednesday was not about us,also we wernt flailing nor were we giving the hobby a bad image as i have said before we were filming as we always do like most other spotters

2ndly we wernt in 1st class on the loco they were 1st clas carrages but they were acting as 2nd class thats why we were there so we didnt annoy any 1st class passengers and the carrage was empty.

also whats all this about the regualrs not been happpy with what we were doing 1stly they wernt there and secondly what gives you the right to start commenting on me and my friends actions and acting like you were there!

Are you sure it was on a Thursday.

On your video the title does indeed state "90036 running for VT 16.04.09" which as you state is a Thursday. But if you watch it 13 seconds into the video some text flashes up, which you have added stating "90036 Running Day 15.4.09 which would work out to be a Wednesday.

Also I doubt the whole train was empty in the front coach when you travelled on it. I am guessing you caught the 1143 ex Euston arriving into Coventry at 1242, which seems to fit with the timings you gave in your original post. This service has always been reasonably loaded on the days I have travelled and I find it hard to believe absolutely no one was travelling in the front coach or any standard class coach for that matter on a daytime London Birmingham service in the Easter Holidays.

 

[ukrob]

Put my cam just outside the window but had most of the camera on the window frame

So you had the window open in appauling weather messing up the aircon and getting water inside a carriage that was on HIRE to Virgin Trains?

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/travelling_with_us/at_the_station/first_class_lounges/default.aspx

The PDF at the link at the bottom of that page clearly states that the first class lounges are for people using Virgin train services, not for teenagers to keep warm in because it is a bit cold.

 

[me123]

The First ScotRail staff have never given me any problems anywhere on the network. They seem pretty cool about it.

This doesn't happen all the time in England, by the way. A small minority of cases, in fact. Most trainspotters go about their hobby without problems.

I think the reason that staff don't mind in Scotland is that there are fewer Scottish enthusiasts, and there are fewer "idiots". I cannot recall a Scottish enthusiast doing something stupid. To be fair though, this is probably a reflection of the smaller hobby. This seems to explain to me why England seems "such a bad place": a combination of the larger enthusiast scene and, therefore, the increased amount of trouble caused by it.

And before you all go screaming at me that I'm anti-enthusiast, I am fully aware that most people are responsible. But nowhere have I heard of a Scottish enthusiast standing inches from 125mph trains.

 

[16CSVT2700]

Hi glad you have seen some of my ideos but whats with the 3yr old thing? if you mean the "Writing horn on my stomach and the WMDR vid then that was all a One off thing we did for a laugh note theword ONE OFF.

It doesn't matter if it was a one off thing, you were acting like a complete tool by doing that. If I had seen you doing it where I'm based you'd be off the platforms no ifs or buts.

Honestly this hobby has gone from bad to worse with the amount of children acting like plebs!

 

[asylumxl]

The PDF at the link at the bottom of that page clearly states that the first class lounges are for people using Virgin train services, not for teenagers to keep warm in because it is a bit cold.

And they paid to use Virgin Train services, so it's only fair they get to use the Lounge, which is part of it.

"Whether that be meeting clients, catching up with colleagues back at the office, or just taking some time to mull over the day."

So if a business man or woman sits for a while to "mull over the day" that's ok, cos he's not a teenager?

 

[richa2002]

And before you all go screaming at me that I'm anti-enthusiast, I am fully aware that most people are responsible. But nowhere have I heard of a Scottish enthusiast standing inches from 125mph trains.

Probably because no trains run 125mph in Scotland . I am willing to be corrected though .

 

[me123]

Probably because no trains run 125mph in Scotland . I am willing to be corrected though .

They do; ECML and WCML in the borders only though. Still, you don't get people at Drem station standing right at the platform edge. I seem to recall an incident at Northallerton where this happened. I don't know the exact speeds at Drem, but I'm sure it's over 100mph.

 

[yorkie]

I cannot recall a Scottish enthusiast doing something stupid. .

Phillip Watts?

He was found impersonating railway staff on the Deltic Retro Scot and many other railtours. He impersonates the police in immature prank calls made at 1am. He has been caught trespassing on tracks.

 

[ukrob]

And they paid to use Virgin Train services, so it's only fair they get to use the Lounge, which is part of it.

"Whether that be meeting clients, catching up with colleagues back at the office, or just taking some time to mull over the day."

So if a business man or woman sits for a while to "mull over the day" that's ok, cos he's not a teenager?

They were not 'mulling over the day', they were trying to stay warm (not filming or taking pictures) - and it appears the OP has a history of behaving stupidly with no regard for their own safety or others property (I'm referring specifically to letting water into a carriage by having the droplight open in the pouring rain).

Initially I supported then original poster, but I certainly don't now after seeing their behaviour - regardless of if the allegations made by eos are true or not.

 

[me123]

Phillip Watts?

He was found impersonating railway staff on the Deltic Retro Scot and many other railtours. He impersonates the police in immature prank calls made at 1am. He has been caught trespassing on tracks.

I'd say there's comparatively fewer Scots than English then Completely forgot about Mr. Watts, though.

 

[O L Leigh]

Without prejudice to anyone...

I do find it very tiresome when enthusiasts don't want to play by the rules. They aren't very tiresome, and yet it seems that there is a minority who always want to make things difficult for themselves and then cry "foul" when things don't go their way. All staff want to know is how many people are on their station, what they're doing and where they'll be so that they can be found and accounted for should an emergency situation arise.

Where things start to go wrong is with groups or individuals just hanging around stations with no clear intention to travel. If these folk haven't already come and said "hello", staff will want to know what they are up to and, if they are just loitering, move them on. As has been said before, the railway is private property and not there just to provide heated waiting and toilet facilities for people to breeze in and out of on a whim. These facilities are there for the benefit of the travelling public.

Now I understand that you travelled up and travelled back again, but you did spend an awful long time just hanging about with no clear intention to travel. Therefore staff were entitled to come and check you out. You were also clearly trying to play the system in order to get use out of the 1st class lounge. For the want of a little politeness and courtesy you caused a lot of the problems to yourself. If you'd gone and said "hello" to the platform supervisor and explained why you were there and how long you'd be on the station for, I'm sure there would have been no problems. I'm sure that, if you'd asked nicely enough, you might have been allowed to get a warm in the 1st class lounge without the need to buy tickets you had no intention of using. You went with the (perhaps unconscious) frame of mind that you were going to be hassled by the staff no matter what, so you'd just carry on as you will and hope you didn't get rumbled.

I'm sorry that you feel hard-done by, but I honestly can't see any way in which staff acted incorrectly. Perhaps the security guy felt under pressure and gave you the wrong reason for why you should leave the 1st class lounge, but that doesn't mean he was wrong to move you on. However, you could have saved yourself a whole heap of aggravation if only you'd been respectful of where you were and used some commonsense to make yourselves known to staff first.

All that said, I'm glad you've shared your experiences. I hope they act as an object lesson to others about what to do differently.

O L Leigh

 

[90019]

They do; ECML and WCML in the borders only though. Still, you don't get people at Drem station standing right at the platform edge. I seem to recall an incident at Northallerton where this happened. I don't know the exact speeds at Drem, but I'm sure it's over 100mph.

The level crossing a couple of miles north of it is 110mph, AFAIK.
You can also get within about 4ft of the tracks, behind a wall, ending up with your head about level with the bogies about 50yds down from the crossing. Which is interesting at 110mph But I've never stood right up against the wall, just leave my camera on it and move a couple of steps back.

 

[GB]

I can buy something and then go and buy something else in a different transaction at a different till. For the purposes of *this thread* I won't be backing down over that point (which is now off topic).

As you say, it is a different transaction thus I bring you back to my orginal point...you have not parted with any cash untill gone through the checkout, so it doesnt matter all that much if you get asked to leave.

If the OP as bought a ticket (that he has obviously paid for before using the facillities) includes use of other facillities then he should be able to use them without question... (within any T&Cs that might be in place).

If the OP complied with the T&Cs (I dont know if he did or not seeing as ive never used them myself) and the train company refused access then this amounts to failure to provide an advertised service which can lead to all sorts of problems for the TOC.

 

[eos]

GB posted:-

If the OP complied with the T&Cs (I dont know if he did or not seeing as ive never used them myself) and the train company refused access then this amounts to failure to provide an advertised service which can lead to all sorts of problems for the TOC.

Victorialine67 said:-

2ndly we wernt in 1st class on the loco they were 1st clas carrages but they were acting as 2nd class thats why we were there so we didnt annoy any 1st class passengers and the carrage was empty.

So what was the point of buying a First Class ticket and not using it? Was it just to 'raid' the snacks provided in the First Class lounge, and from memory , is there not a small quantity of alcoholic drinks , ( rum, whisky etc) provided. That alone would mean that a respnsible adult needed to be present to comply with the alcohol regulations, not Virgin Trains requirements.

Victorialine67 posted:-

As always we decided to get the wind on our faces but we didnt go mad with our heads fully out the window then i saw a guy dressed in normal clothes flash a badge to my mate and i heard him say in the most threating tone of voice "Im a gaurd at Euston I SUGGEST you keep your head in!".

So this guy walked through an entirely empty coach , the last coach in the train from Birmingham to Coventry, from vestibule to vestibule just to 'catch' you and your mate with or without your heads out of the droplight. Why?.

Victorialine67 posted:-

....while i was at the end of the platform filming a 66 coming in.

You don't say , but this sounds like platform 1 , where there is a sign which says 'Danger , no unauthorised access' about 30 Metres from the end of the platform. Were you past this point as was alledged, and was this not the reason that staff came up to you - nothing to do with being 16? If it wasn't plat 1 , the same sign is on plat 2/3 ( or whatever the island platform is now)
Victorialine67 posted:-

Put my cam just outside the window but had most of the camera on the window frame

.
The video of that day shows that there was more than just a camera resting on the window frame. You were travelling backwards at up to 110MPH, with the camera on the same side as trains travelling in the opposite direction, not able to see anything approaching for quite some miles on a very busy corridor. There is a comment in one of your videos about a 'broken seat' and how 'elf and safety ought to take a look ', perhaps H & E should be pointed in the direction of this video too.
Lots of other videos of yours show more than a camera out of the window, take a look at the EMT HST and see that you are further out than someone in the next vestibule who is flailing.
Victorialine67 posted:-

....what gives you the right to start commenting on me and my friends actions

The very same reason as you, being a member of the Forum. If you don't want comments , then don't post it, send it to whoever you think may raise some sympathy for you. Of course you will get an apologising letter back from Virgin Trains, doesn't matter what you write.
The video shows multiple journeys that day between Birmingham and Coventry, but mention of only one ticket, I trust that a valid ticket was held for each one, and not just the same one because it hadn't been gripped. Incedentally there isn't a First Class West Midlands Day Ranger, so its individual tickets only I'm afraid..
Just what is the reason for the 'empty drinks bottle throwing' on a class 170 in another video of yours. Do you really think that went down well with other travelling passengers on the day?

 

[ukrob]

As you say, it is a different transaction thus I bring you back to my orginal point...you have not parted with any cash untill gone through the checkout, so it doesnt matter all that much if you get asked to leave.

My point still stands. I have no idea what you are trying to get at.

If the OP as bought a ticket (that he has obviously paid for before using the facillities) includes use of other facillities then he should be able to use them without question... (within any T&Cs that might be in place).

If the OP complied with the T&Cs (I dont know if he did or not seeing as ive never used them myself) and the train company refused access then this amounts to failure to provide an advertised service which can lead to all sorts of problems for the TOC.

Only if providing a first class lounge at the station in question is a franchise requirement (I don't know if it is or not).

At the end of the day, a travel ticket is for TRAVEL, as they were not using the ticket they had no business being in the lounge.

 

[GB]

My point still stands. I have no idea what you are trying to get at.

It quite simple, if you pay for a service then would you not expect that service to be fulfilled?

 

[Pumbaa]

They do; ECML and WCML in the borders only though. Still, you don't get people at Drem station standing right at the platform edge. I seem to recall an incident at Northallerton where this happened. I don't know the exact speeds at Drem, but I'm sure it's over 100mph.

I think the first stretch of 125 on the ECML is Berwick - Newcastle leg. On that basis, I think it's EPS on the WCML only.

 

[ukrob]

It quite simple, if you pay for a service then would you not expect that service to be fulfilled?

The service you are paying for is travel. If that is not fufilled then I would expect a full or partial refund depending on the circumstances.

You are basically saying that if you buy a first class ticket you expect to be able to use the lounge and if you can't then you want a refund for that aspect of the service, even though the ticket you bought is for transportation.

 

[Darandio]

I think the first stretch of 125 on the ECML is Berwick - Newcastle leg. On that basis, I think it's EPS on the WCML only.

Yeah, heading southbound, the first 125 stretch is around the Goswick/Beal area, 63m 10ch north of Newcastle.

*EDIT*

I was wrong, the first 125 stretch is actually just south of Wallyford, through Prestonpans.

 

[EM2]

You are basically saying that if you buy a first class ticket you expect to be able to use the lounge and if you can't then you want a refund for that aspect of the service, even though the ticket you bought is for transportation.

We used to hear that argument a lot at St Pancras when we had no 1st Class Lounge. The use of a lounge is an additional benefit. There are many, many stations where there is no 1st Lounge.

 

[GB]

I would only expect to use facillities that are advertised...the lounge at this station being one of them.

Virgin advertise that you can use the first class lounge on a virgin first class ticket (where the lounge is available), there is no mention of age restrictions or time restrictions (except opening times).

So yes, if I turn up at a station on the the pretents of travelling on a standard ticket, but change my mind to a first class ticket as the extras are advertised at the station, if they refuse me entry then yes I would expect a refund.

The same goes for airlines. If I opt to fly Virgins Premium economy (which comes with extras) and they then serve me as economy, then I would again expect a refund....I would also be none too happy!

Anyway, Ive said my thoughts on the subject.

 

[devon_metro]

If victorialine67 is one of these people who wave their arms about like complete fools to get a "2 tone" then i'm not surprised they were thrown off.

People who do that belong in a mental home IMO!

 

[Techniquest]

Maybe a trip RA to Frenchay for such individuals...

 

[Darandio]

 

[Techniquest]

Good find that Darren! Must have been a mission to find it!

 

[TDK]

Put my cam just outside the window but had most of the camera on the window frame
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Leaning out of the window of a moving train even slightly is rediculously dangerous especially this time of the year when the foliage is growing at a fast rate & as for leaning out of the window with a video camera or a stills camera is worse. Any of you enthusiasts out there do not participate in this stupid past time as it is dangerous and also irresponsible. I drive locos and have seen plenty of enthusiats doing this, young and old. I cringe at the thought of having to assist the train manager clearing up the mess of a person without a face or head.

 

[bluenoxid]

Yeah they do make a mess but it is difficult to get it across to this save and restart again, I'm invincible generation.

I love that image posted by Darandio. I recognise it and associate it with R Dahl but I'm sure I'm wrong. What is it from?