Wakefield Kirkgate refurbishment

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe it will be staffed, though I believe it will be a community centre / info desk that just so happens to do rail ticketing too, not a dedicated booking office.

 

[AndyHudds]

All that appears to have been done to the island platform is the wall has been removed, the platform re-surfaced, a couple of lamposts thrown up, some glass fitted into the remaining wall and some electronic destination boards thrown up. Where as it looks ok and is a damn sight better than before, its nowt to write home about really. So when is work starting on the main station building, does anyone know? It's all going a bit too slow for my liking.

 

[YorkshireBear]

All that appears to have been done to the island platform is the wall has been removed, the platform re-surfaced, a couple of lamposts thrown up, some glass fitted into the remaining wall and some electronic destination boards thrown up. Where as it looks ok and is a damn sight better than before, its nowt to write home about really. So when is work starting on the main station building, does anyone know? It's all going a bit too slow for my liking.

Rather they didn't rush it. Funding was confirmed last year they may not have fully decided what to do with the main building and started on the island platform. As that is the only bit that Network Rail could pretty much decide what to do. The main building has a lot of stake holders so nailing down the final design might take time.

 

[Haydn1971]

Thanks for the replies folks - so, work in progress - the community project sounds a great idea too !

 

[Mugby]

I thought the wall on the island platform had been given, surprising though it may seem, some sort of listed status and therefore couldn't be touched?

 

[tom1649]

It really should have a proper staffed booking office operated by Northern, but I suppose the community option is the next best thing.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It really should have a proper staffed booking office operated by Northern, but I suppose the community option is the next best thing.

That is pretty much my opinion too. Lets face it anything is an improvement on what we had a year ago. I have quite a belief that Kirkgate will rise from the ashes in terms of its train service.

Mainly because if Huddersfield ever gets a regular London Service (i can see within the decade it being able to support a two hourly service) Kirkgate would have even more London Services.

And if these services are franchised the paths might not be so bad!

I also do not think it will be long before the line is electrified. Late CP6....

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can certainly see Mirfield-Kirkgate-Normanton-Holbeck-Leeds being wired in CP6, as it's an ideal diversionary route for TPE services. Given that, it might also make sense to electrify to York via Castleford for the same reason- along with extra capacity for freight and ECML diversions. As for some of the other lines serving Kirkgate- I'm not sure there's much of a case for electrifying the 'Five Towns' lines through Featherstone, but this might well change.

I'd be keen to see Huddersfield get some direct services to London- there can't be many places as big (in terms of population or GDP) that don't have even a single token service to the capital.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'd be keen to see Huddersfield get some direct services to London- there can't be many places as big (in terms of population or GDP) that don't have even a single token service to the capital.

By town population, only Walsall is larger and has no direct service. The rest (over 100,000 residents) are: Middlesbrough, Blackpool, Bolton, Telford, Rotherham, Sutton Coldfield, Blackburn, Oldham and St Helens.

 

[Crossover]

All that appears to have been done to the island platform is the wall has been removed, the platform re-surfaced, a couple of lamposts thrown up, some glass fitted into the remaining wall and some electronic destination boards thrown up. Where as it looks ok and is a damn sight better than before, its nowt to write home about really. So when is work starting on the main station building, does anyone know? It's all going a bit too slow for my liking.

On the island, some walls (and the old canopies) have been removed and a second wall has been built, which incorporates the windows (I saw it in the middle of being built so can vouch for a wall being new, it just blends in rather well with what was there) so I believe the walkway to the subway could well be covered now, or shielded partially from the elements at least.

The last time I was there (back end of 2012) the platform surfaces were in a sorry state from all the patching up they'd had, so I'm glad they have now been fixed.

I do wonder how long the boards will last...the station may well be greatly improved...the area outside it, however.......

 

[AndyHudds]

I can certainly see Mirfield-Kirkgate-Normanton-Holbeck-Leeds being wired in CP6, as it's an ideal diversionary route for TPE services. Given that, it might also make sense to electrify to York via Castleford for the same reason- along with extra capacity for freight and ECML diversions. As for some of the other lines serving Kirkgate- I'm not sure there's much of a case for electrifying the 'Five Towns' lines through Featherstone, but this might well change.

I'd be keen to see Huddersfield get some direct services to London- there can't be many places as big (in terms of population or GDP) that don't have even a single token service to the capital.

It would be a god send we have nearby Brighouse with direct service to London, but not Huddersfield. Alliance Rail proposals for direct services to London from Huddersfield seem to be stalling, but would be belting should they get them off the ground. Although I'm not sure the Penistone Line would take such a service without a serious programme of engineering work, well, I know it wouldn't to be honest.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Quickest way from hudderafield is definitely via kirkgate and hare park.

 

[Welshman]

In the days of yore, Huddersfield used to have through services to London Kings Cross, St Pancras and even Marylebone.

The Marylebone service[the "South Yorkshireman"], started from Bradford Exchange and went via Penistone & the GC, while the other two started from Halifax and reversed in Huddersfield before continuing to Wakefield or Barnsley.

What are the reasons for the current Grand Central service not reversing in Huddersfield too? It would be much easier with a dmu than running a Fairburn tank engine round from one end to the other. Is it a problem with access rights, or is the time penalty[an extra 20 minutes or so] regarded as too great?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't think the time penalty would be an issue considering how slow the current GC 'West Riding' service is via the Askern line. I'm not sure how they'd find platform capacity at Huddersfield with the present layout though, as the only platform that is bi-directional and long enough for a 180 is P4, which is already used quite intensively by both MCV stoppers at one end, and at the other by Northern services to Leeds via both Dewsbury and Bradford, and the Wakefield services. Maybe once P9 is built (if indeed it ever is) there might be space, though even then some changes to the layout may be needed to make P8 accessible from the Brighouse/Leeds direction. The Bradley curve being single might also be an issue. I'd have thought that GC would have looked into serving Huddersfield when the services were being planned, as the inability to do so was one of the reasons to serve Brighouse initially, and the main reason for adding the Mirfield calls.

 

[Welshman]

I take your point about the lack of flexibility in much-simplified Huddersfield layout now, cf the days when trains regularly reversed there. Then there were even two through roads between platforms 1 & 4!

But even allowing for this, according to my calculations, platform 4 is only occupied between x12 and x31 minutes past each hour [Manchester service arr.x12, d.x30; Leeds service arr. x20, d.x31]. So for 40 minutes every hour that platform is vacant. But then I suppose that may mean new slots would have to be found on the EC main line, unless, as you imply, the GC trains run direct via Hare Park Junction and use the time allowed now for the detour via Pontefract to serve Huddersfield instead. Would that work? Is the Pontefract market so important, cf. the Huddersfield one?

 

[sevenhills]

The organisations funding the redevelopment are Network Rail, Wakefield Council, Metro, Railway Heritage Trust, Grand Central Rail, Northern Rail, Groundwork Wakefield, Garfield Weston Foundation, Headley Trust and Eggborough Power Station.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-21804091

 

[Haydn1971]

Excellent news... Could be a lovely station, it's actually very busy considering how awful it was and continues to be despite the recent work

 

[YorkshireBear]

Excellent news... Could be a lovely station, it's actually very busy considering how awful it was and continues to be despite the recent work

Yeah exactly, thats what always amazes me. Passenger numbers are still very high despite the condition. I think (from my knowledge on this type of work) you could be looking at a 30%-50% increase in patronage from the station as long as when its finished the media make a big enough deal about it with news radio posters etc.

 

[AndyHudds]

They could extend the Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield stopper through to Kirkgate when the refurb is finished instead of the proposed extension through to Leeds. Or even introduce a new service from Kirkgate to Victoria through the Calder Valley.

 

[gnolife]

They could extend the Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield stopper through to Kirkgate when the refurb is finished instead of the proposed extension through to Leeds. Or even introduce a new service from Kirkgate to Victoria through the Calder Valley.

I know that there used to be MCV - WKF stoppers. Quite a while back now, the service was split into MCV - HUD, and HUD - WKF, with HUD - WKF being tacked onto a LDS - HUD to give the Grand Tour.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Didn't the Manchester Victoria-Huddersfield service used to run through to Wakefield Westgate until roughly 2006? It was certainly well into Northern's tenure when it changed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Indeed- it changed when the 'Grand Tour' was established, presumably to free up through-platform capacity at HUD. It also meant that HUD was as far East (other than Sheffield) as any NH units would get in normal service. Back before Northern was formed, the MCV-WKF was a FNW service which very occasionally saw 101s being substituted for the usual 142. I also remember pre-privatisation that some of the sevices extended across Manchester as far as Llandudno.

 

[AndyHudds]

Indeed- it changed when the 'Grand Tour' was established, presumably to free up through-platform capacity at HUD. It also meant that HUD was as far East (other than Sheffield) as any NH units would get in normal service. Back before Northern was formed, the MCV-WKF was a FNW service which very occasionally saw 101s being substituted for the usual 142. I also remember pre-privatisation that some of the sevices extended across Manchester as far as Llandudno.

I always thought it was Wrexham, but it could be Llandudno, definitely somewhere in Wales though.

The development of a Wakefield to Manchester service would take a little pressure off Leeds for those wanting to travel to Manchester from Wakefield. I'm not sure what the ticket sales are like for Wakefield to Manchester but I'm sure there would be a good business case for it.

The route could be developed with a new station at Ossett Parkway, redevelopment of Ravensthorpe as a parkway station too, with platforms in the Wakefield direction, a big car park, buses and just a complete overhaul of the station and the site.In fact, if pathways could be found a service through Huddersfield and a service through the Calder Valley could be introduced. The Huddersfield service calling at the current stations on the route it calls at currently with a calls at Ossett Parkway and Ravensthorpe. Where as the Calder Valley service could call at both Ossett and Ravensthorpe,Mirfield,Brighouse,Elland (new station, I understand Calderdale Council are desperate for a station in Elland and are acrrying out a feasibility study on it as we speak)Hebden Bridge,Rochdale and finally Victoria.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I'm not sure how they'd find platform capacity at Huddersfield with the present layout though, as the only platform that is bi-directional and long enough for a 180 is P4

Isn't p1 bidirectional? I'm sure it has signals in the Leeds end of the platform.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Isn't p1 bidirectional? I'm sure it has signals in the Leeds end of the platform.

I'd never noticed that but it might be, although I'd imagine it's only used E/B at times of disruption. Though with 4tph I'm not sure where you'd find space to reverse a 180. As I said before, the Bradley Curve would also be an issue as the 1tph that uses it towards HUD is usually held at Bradley Junction for a good few minutes, and that after sitting at Halifax for ages!

 

[Crossover]

Isn't p1 bidirectional? I'm sure it has signals in the Leeds end of the platform.

Ignore if you saw my previous response - I thought the discussion was about Kirkgate!

I don't believe Platform 1 at Hudds is bi-di - in fact I suspect it may be part of the reason why there is a Leeds - Sheffield via Dewsbury service but no return through service (platform 4 too busy and I'm not sure platform 8 is accessible from the Penistone line

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The Penistone line is only accessible from p1 and p2 at Huddersfield. I think this has been the case since the slight remodelling there a couple of decades ago, but I'm not too sure on that count.

 

[34D]

The Penistone line is only accessible from p1 and p2 at Huddersfield. I think this has been the case since the slight remodelling there a couple of decades ago, but I'm not too sure on that count.

Well a couple of months ago I went from Denby Dale to Huddersfield p4.... But you're right that p8 isn't accessible from that line.

Re Huddersfield, could an Adelante fit its first 3 coaches into platform 6, and the rest of it foul the p5 line but not p4 or p8 lines? I think it probably could, though would doubtless cause issues with overlaps and signal sighting.

Surely a better way to link Huddersfield with London is to go via Stalybridge and Stockport?

(Is it possible that a mod could consider splitting this Huddersfield discussion into a separate thread?)

Re Wakefield Kirkgate, I agree that all three platforms can access all routes to the west and are all reversible.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Ah, sorry, yes, p4 is accessible ex-Penistone. Not sure how I managed to read Quail incorrectly hock:

 

[AndyHudds]

Yes, the Penistone Line is most definitely accessible from Platform 4. They sometimes start the early morning Sunday trains from Platform 4.

Alliance Rail have proposals to go via Stalybridge and Stockport to London from Huddersfield, avoiding Manchester, but as with the service along the Penistone Line, and all Alliance's proposed services they seemed to have hit the buffers. I just find this kind of thing extremely frustrating,open access operators have proved their worth,in particular Grand Central, but the ORR just just seem slow for them getting their operations off the ground. They must be extremely frustrated.

http://www.alliancerail.co.uk/