I can't disagree with that! When someone posts here asking for advice and within a very short space of time calls people trolls and moaning over 50p, alarm bells start ringing.
reb0118 - If that's the shortest available route, I'd say yes. If it's just infrequent on a Sunday then, no.
Infrequency isn't an excuse to go via an invalid route (but if you ask a guard nicely they may show discretion).
uksweet - I don't think the Routeing Guide is the best of documents to use, but at least it's not kept secret and is available for free (the restriction codes for off-peak tickets are another matter...!), but really this is a journey of 29 miles via Leeds compared to 9 direct and 15 via the shortest available train. I don't see how the RG is at fault here.
This isn't a routeing issue; it's a frequency issue.
Northern do not decide on frequency. It will be decided by West Yorkshire PTE. A higher frequency means charging more taxes, something I'd support but many car owners wouldn't.
And I presume you know roughly what you are doing. If you are an infrequent rail traveller, this is likely to deter you rather than encourage, in the same way that the plethora of restrictions on fares does. There is a different way of doing things via network theory that would take the burden off the customer while ensuring fairness for providers. But it would take a lot of groundwork.
I don't wish to get into an argument but I do find your attitude somewhat irritating.
The local train services in West Yorkshire are mainly subsidised by Metro, ie West Yorkshire Tax Payers. The level of service provided is generally good, and is no doubt about right for level of traffic on offer or the amount of revenue available. There are many parts of the country which have no Sunday service at all.
Just because the timetable on offer does not meet your needs does not mean there is anything drastically wrong with it. Nor does it mean you can go whereever you want with whatever ticket you want. To compare with buses in your area, someone who didn't have a free travel pass couldn't buy a First Day ticket which is only valid on First Buses, then decide to use it on a service offered by Centrebus just because they didn't like the times or couldn't be bothered to wait for a First Bus. The timetables are published for a reason.
And on the subject of Manchester there are many routes which, by comparison, have a far lower quality of service than West Yorkshire.
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No, the clerk does not have an attitude problem, I think you do. The Clerk appears to have done their job and has given you the correct information as to where and when your ticket is valid. Just because you do not like the information you are given does not mean they have an attitude problem.
Then why the Chuff are there hundreds of posts asking about valid routes?
Or are You just calling them Thick?
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Absolutely.
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Would You like to explain the problem, or obviously You wouldn't as Northern arev Perfect, and never have ever done anything wrong, all their Staff are saints and are never rude about coustomers....
That's why I said for another time.
Why would you be reading map LY?... but if I'm reading the Map LY, I was correct....
But then My degree is in Computer Science, so I'm probably wrong.
Why would you be reading map LY?
Halifax is a member of Halifax routeing group.
Mirfield is a member of Huddersfield routeing group.
The only map for routes between Halifax group and Huddersfield group is SY.
Map SY only permits travel direct between the two groups.
I imagine there is nothing clearer than telling somebody the restriction, in person.
But, when they actually do that, they are 'jobsworths'?
Personally, I think that for 'Any Permitted' tickets then the quickest route should also be valid, as well as the shortest route. You could disallow break of journey if it causes major fare anomolies.
Would You like to explain the problem, or obviously You wouldn't as Northern arev Perfect, and never have ever done anything wrong, all their Staff are saints and are never rude about coustomers....
And where is Mirfield even on any line on the SY map?
I think this shows quite clearly who has the attitude problem in this case.
You haven't said any of that before. If true then the member of staff does have a problem because I'm sure he should provide an immediate refund in the circumstances you outline. However, if you used language likeSo, A member of Staff, who after selling You a ticket, THEN, tells You the journey You wish to make is not possible, and refuses to give You a refund as You decided not to make said Journey, without even leaving the Ticket Window han Noooooooo Atitude problem?
at him then I can see why he might have decided to be less than helpful. You really really really do have a huge attitude problem.Get back under Your Rickety Bridge.
You haven't said any of that before. If true then the member of staff does have a problem because I'm sure he should provide an immediate refund in the circumstances you outline. However, if you used language like at him then I can see why he might have decided to be less than helpful. You really really really do have a huge attitude problem.
Did you read what I posted?! I said " I don't think the Routeing Guide is the best of documents to use", how is this calling people who find it difficult to use "thick"? I would never say, or suggest, such a thing!Then why the Chuff are there hundreds of posts asking about valid routes?
Or are You just calling them Thick?
Would You like to explain the problem, or obviously You wouldn't as Northern arev Perfect, and never have ever done anything wrong, all their Staff are saints and are never rude about coustomers....
That's why I said for another time.
The routeing guide is complicated, but you don't have to read it, you can ask National Rail Enquiries or enquire at a ticket office. Admittedly you won't always got a correct answer, and you won't always get the answer you like either.Well, I know You need a degree in Astro Physics, but if I'm reading the Map LY, I was correct....
But then My degree is in Computer Science, so I'm probably wrong.
You didn't tell us that.So, A member of Staff, who after selling You a ticket, THEN, tells You the journey You wish to make is not possible, and refuses to give You a refund as You decided not to make said Journey, without even leaving the Ticket Window han Noooooooo Atitude problem?.
There's no need for that. Do you want help from this site or not?Get back under Your Rickety Bridge.
If you are referring to Northern, it's ATOC who set the rules.I know You are trying to defend a Company, who are widely known for their Loony Routing, like Leeds York valid Via Harrogate, and Middlesbrough Carlisle Via Leeds. both routes that would NEVER be quicker, and very much longer.
OK, now I realise you opted not to travel, as when you were sold the ticket you were then informed of the rather long journey. You didn't make this clear earlier. I believe the member of staff should have given you a refund in such a case....All I did was ask for My Money back, no "Language" was used, all I got from HER, was "I don't run the Trains"
Not much help, when She's in a Northern Ticket Office, on a Northern Station, Wareing a Northen Uniform, selling a Ticket for a Northern Train.....
So, nowt to do with Northern then?
Sombody with less of a problem talking to the people who pay Her wages, may have sugested a comment or compaint form, instead of denying the bleedin' obvious.
There's no need for that. Do you want help from this site or not?
To be honest, it's debatable, it depends how the conversation went. e.g. "Return to Huddersfield please" "50p, sir" (hands over 50p) "Oh, by the way Sir, you have to wait ages for the next train, then have a 2 hour wait in Huddersfield...." it would then be reasonable to offer a refund. However, the tone of uksweet's posts here suggest that the conversation may have gone in a direction that made the clerk rather less willing to issue a refund....Of course uksweet could get a refund of his 50p fare (:roll if he decided not to travel, but as there were no delays to the service that he didn't want to take then I'd've charged him the £10 admin fee!
HHF did take a while to learn how to use the RG to be fair ....
Did you read what I posted?! I said " I don't think the Routeing Guide is the best of documents to use", how is this calling people who find it difficult to use "thick"? I would never say, or suggest, such a thing!
So "Normal People" then, can't use it, so therefore, not much use to the occasional passenger.
If you actually read kwvr45's posts, you will discover that he does not believe Northern are "perfect", and has never said or suggested any of the things you are attributing to him. Did you actually read what he said about a report he provided which Northern disregarded?
So, I'm Right again about Northern
The routeing guide is complicated, but you don't have to read it, you can ask National Rail Enquiries or enquire at a ticket office. Admittedly you won't always got a correct answer, and you won't always get the answer you like either.
What's the point? You said "won't always got a correct answer" well I think that also proves My point.
If the RG didn't exist, and we wen't back to 'reasonable' routes, this route would not be considered 'reasonable' by most guards and ticket clerks, so you'd be no better off.
Well, from the posts here, Most would acctually be happy to allow it, so wrong again.
You can't blame the RG for the fact you can't do a 29 mile journey for the price of a 9-15 mile journey.
You had the option to pay £1 for the journey via Leeds, or wait a couple of hours until the next train via the accepted route for 50p. Many people do not have such a choice. Yes, the service could be more frequent, so campaign to your MP for a tax rise to fund rail improvements or to divert money from road schemes to rail. I'd support that, but many others wouldn't.
As I said the 50p / £1 dosn't have anything whatsoever to do with it, any Passenger would have the same problem of paying doubble or more.
You didn't tell us that.
That's why I said "thats for another time".
There's no need for that. Do you want help from this site or not?
I was making an observation, I never asked at any time for assistance in the matter.... So, in this instance NO, I Don't.
If you are referring to Northern, it's ATOC who set the rules.
Well, again, when I asked Northern, they said it was themselves, not ATOC, so, on or the other is wrong. "won't always got a correct answer" is True here too.
Leeds to York via Harrogate is entirely sensible; it's a direct train. It can never be barred on a York to Leeds ticket. The lack of a RP between Leeds and York via Harrogate also makes any ticket that has validity between Leeds and York valid via Harrogate. There are no anomalies here. You are wanting to go via Leeds which, you can expect to carry a premium for. The same hardly applies at Harrogate!
Rubbish again There's a direct Train between Wakefield and Leeds, Via Mirfield, Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford and New Pudsey. are You trying to tell Me that is the same fair?
If not, then Your theory about York - Leeds via Harrogate is wrong too.
As for Middlesbrough to Carlisle, this isn't Northern's choice, and the distance is less than double the shortest route. In your case of wanting to go via Leeds, the distance is triple.
Stop making it up. It's not Tripple, its not even double.
Your trying to compare journeys possible on Weekdays with those possible on Sundays.
Even if it was, My way, on a Sunday, is considdered reasonable by practicaly everybody.
I'm not doing it any Day but Sunday, 'cos of the pathetic freqency on some very well used routes. Why else would there be a Hourly weekday through Train. This is a massive difference in journey oportunities.
Yes, some long routes and anomalies exist in the RG, and I can understand that you are disappointed that your particular journey doesn't have one of them, but that's just the way it is - accept it.
OK, now I realise you opted not to travel, as when you were sold the ticket you were then informed of the rather long journey. No, I was aware of the longer journey, and that it was also Quicker.
You didn't make this clear earlier. I believe the member of staff should have given you a refund in such a case.
Well, somtimes Women are unpredictable.
I notice You didn't mention the "Northern Ticket Office, on a Northern Station, Wareing a Northen Uniform, selling a Ticket for a Northern Train.....
So, nowt to do with Northern then?
You can't have a go at us over this issue, when you never presented it to us in the first place.
I said "for another time". You jumped to the conclusion, whithout the evidence.
If you had posted a reasonable post detailing all the problems, I would have advised you to send the original ticket to Northern asking for a refund and asking why you were not given a refund in the first place. However I suspect that you may have irritated the clerk to such an extent that they decided to be awkward, I suspect this based on the tone in your posts here. The clerk should be above that, but we're all only human...
Well, somtimes Women are unpredictable.
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But some of Us are less human than others apparently, as a member of the public with a sensable sugestion is wrong.
Did you read what I posted?! I said " I don't think the Routeing Guide is the best of documents to use", how is this calling people who find it difficult to use "thick"? I would never say, or suggest, such a thing!
So "Normal People" then, can't use it, so therefore, not much use to the occasional passenger.
Agreed.I think this shows quite clearly who has the attitude problem in this case.
Also agreed.. . . closing the thread and ending this discussion.
Had you had a row with the bus driver earlier in the day to prevent you returning that way?
You would have saved 50p as well.
Wait, what? You really posted that? Surely that's grounds for closing the thread and ending this discussion.
Agreed.Also agreed.
There's a lot of valuable assistance on this forum and there's constructive and informed debate over issues that can sometimes have an impact on very many rail travellers and personnel.
This thread is neither.
Another One Who Knows nothing making a comment.
OAP's Don't pay enything for Bus Travel.
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1.I know all I need to know about you. I think most reading this would concur.
2. You were wanting to spend 50p on a train fare. You would have spent 0p on the bus. Saving of 50p.
Oh, and by the way, it is not OAP's that get the buses for free, it is people over 60 years of age. Subtle difference.
Sorry Wrong again:
for women the eligible age is pensionable age
for men the eligible age is the pensionable age of a woman born on the same day
So Old Age Pensioners.
As I said the 50p / £1 is irrelevent.
Anybody would be expected to pay Doubble or More.
Agreed.Also agreed.
There's a lot of valuable assistance on this forum and there's constructive and informed debate over issues that can sometimes have an impact on very many rail travellers and personnel.
This thread is neither.
1.I know all I need to know about you. I think most reading this would concur.
So some of the men are not OAP's then.
Wait, what? You really posted that? Surely that's grounds for closing the thread and ending this discussion.
I was making an observation, I never asked at any time for assistance in the matter.... So, in this instance NO, I Don't.
I agree. What could have been an interesting and useful debate about Sunday services, and the possibility of alternative routes on Sundays only, has been ruined by the aggressive, confrontational and arrogant nature of the OP's posts.
I agree. What could have been an interesting and useful debate about Sunday services, and the possibility of alternative routes on Sundays only, has been ruined by the aggressive, confrontational and arrogant nature of the OP's posts.
I agree.
Evidently. It's not just senior citizens that are eligible for free bus travel, in Wales at least, as people who are unable to drive for medical reasons are also entitled.
Using capital letters does not make your arguments any stronger, nor your posts any more persuasive.
Start a campaign for truth and justice if you like. I am sure the Daily Mail will be glad to have you on board. I, for one, am not interested in discussing anyone who does not respect the views of others.