Why is a FGW 142 in the north east?

[sprinterguy]

There's a couple of reports and pictures elsewhere on this forum of 142063, one of FGWs' 7 Pacers, heading north through the likes of Northallerton and Durham earlier this evening. I'm presuming it was headed for Heaton depot, but can anyone confirm this and tell me exactly why it's up in the north east? And what route did it take north, as that is quite a major journey!

 

[YorkshireBear]

It's not being transferred is it, i thought that wasn't till dec 2011?

 

[387star]

Guessing Overground are introducing 172s so maybe FGW are getting enough for Northern to get the 142s back (FGW will recieve 8 from Overground, 2 already with FGW and in Silverlink livery?)
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I thought dec 2011 was the latest date?

 

[Turbostar]

AFAIK, it left early hours of this morn from Exeter SD, so I'm assuming it's been transferred back to Northern.

 

[387star]

As an aside anyone know when ATW are expecting the (5?) 150s back currently on long term lease to FGW?

Hopefully FGW will keep these till the (9?) 150s finally descend from London Midland
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And where else on this forum? link please can't find any pictures

 

[ainsworth74]

9th thread on the Photo sub forum, not exactly hard to find!

Clicky Clicky

 

[MggW]

There's a couple of reports and pictures elsewhere on this forum of 142063, one of FGWs' 7 Pacers, heading north through the likes of Northallerton and Durham earlier this evening. I'm presuming it was headed for Heaton depot, but can anyone confirm this and tell me exactly why it's up in the north east? And what route did it take north, as that is quite a major journey!

C4 overhaul being carried out at Heaton.

 

[DjU]

As an aside anyone know when ATW are expecting the (5?) 150s back currently on long term lease to FGW?

Hopefully FGW will keep these till the (9?) 150s finally descend from London Midland

The remaining ATW 150s are due to be the first units to leave once FGW get the 6 ex-Overground 150s.

FGW only have 3x ATW 150s now anyway, 1 unit (150280) left last year and was replaced by a SWT 158 and a second unit (150281) left a month or two ago and is currently being replaced by LM 150 (150125)

 

[387star]

FGW will at current levels gain by about 5 units then when all the stock from LM and OV is in its hands
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According to my DMU pocket book some 150s with ATW have primarius seating any photos of these units. I never realised this.. how does it vary from chapman? Also any interior photos of the 8 ex Wessex 150s which moved to ATW some time ago?
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plus ex OVERGROUND FGW refreshed interior photos?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

are the 150/1's atw's?

 

[MCR247]

No, they aren't

 

[sprinterguy]

are the 150/1's atw's?

No, all ATWs' 150s are 150/2s. FGWs' two class 150/1s are ex-Silverlink units that are staying with FGW, and are to be joined by the other 6 London Overground 150/1s.

 

[DjU]

FGW will at current levels gain by about 5 units then when all the stock from LM and OV is in its hands

No they won't. They gain about 1 unit (plus the benefits from having a standard fleet).

The 6 LO and 9 LM units replace;

4 x 150 (3x ATW, 1x LM)
1 x 158 (SWT)
7 x 142 (Northern)
2 x Loco Hauled set

 

[tbtc]

So LM are sending FGW 150s so that FGW can send existing 150s to ATW? Am sure this makes sense to someone...

Despite almost forty 172s being built, i'm not sure who actually benefits from the "cascade", since everyone seems to lose around as many coaches as they gain

 

[MCR247]

Well the ATW 150s are already in their livery and refurbed so it does make sense in a way

 

[tbtc]

Well the ATW 150s are already in their livery and refurbed so it does make sense in a way

Fair point!

 

[MCR247]

But I agree, its quite funny, loads of new stock has been/will be built and yet hardly anyone seems to gain more units :roll:

 

[tbtc]

But I agree, its quite funny, loads of new stock has been/will be built and yet hardly anyone seems to gain more units :roll:

I suppose one reason for the lack of "additional" stock is that the 67 haulage at FGW and Scotrail comes to an end, plus the three 180s from Northern go into a black hole.

Whilst I'm not normally in the "bring back all the good old locos" canp, its a shame that the capacity of the 67 hauled stock will be "lost" in a few months when we need to find a way to beef up capacity on a number of routes.

 

[MCR247]

Why is there 2 180s sitting around doing nothing?!

 

[tbtc]

I don't know; I can think of a dozen routes that they could be used on though. Since 180 reliability is such that Northern only want to use two of their three units, if they had all five presumably they could use four of them

 

[387star]

lol exactly! it's a joke!

yes sorry forgot the locomotive hauled coaches... I worked it out as 5 because 3 150s from ATW, 1 158 from SWT and 1 150 from LO (5) are being swapped for 8 OV 150/1s... I realise FGW already have 2 of these but still a 'gain' of THREE plus when LMs 9 150s cascade down that's a swap for 7 142s so TWO more gained...
TWO plus THREE is FIVE hence the 5

Luckily the 150s have more seats than the 142s...
I was trying to ignore the loco stock and concentrate on the DMUs so realise this isn't a true reflection of provided capacity

 

[tbtc]

lol exactly! it's a joke!

yes sorry forgot the locomotive hauled coaches... I worked it out as 5 because 3 150s from ATW, 1 158 from SWT and 1 150 from LO (5) are being swapped for 8 OV 150/1s... I realise FGW already have 2 of these but still a 'gain' of THREE plus when LMs 9 150s cascade down that's a swap for 7 142s so TWO more gained...
TWO plus THREE is FIVE hence the 5

Luckily the 150s have more seats than the 142s...
I was trying to ignore the loco stock and concentrate on the DMUs so realise this isn't a true reflection of provided capacity

The whole thing confuses me - I won't pretend to understand what the TOCs are doing (or being forced to do!)... are SWT getting their 158 back? What are ATW doing with all the extra trains? The whole thing seems a muddle...

...cheers for explaining the figures though

 

[387star]

SWT still have the 158 it's being shared and yes it will get it 'fully' back. ATW always had the 5 150s...
As someone corrected me earlier 2 have already retuned home to ATW hence FGW getting the 158 and a 150 from LM. Ironically this 150 from LM could be one of the eventual 9 transferred to FGW

 

[MCR247]

I'm not in any way saying they don't but do ATW actually need the 150s? I'm only asking because I don't know and I'm just wondering how they've been coping without them?

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not in any way saying they don't but do ATW actually need the 150s? I'm only asking because I don't know and I'm just wondering how they've been coping without them?

I think the problem over the last few years is that ATW have not been funded to run all 'their' 150s - which is why they have been able to be subleased. I'd not be surprised if they end up stored...

 

[12CSVT]

There were suggestions that a class 165 might go to London Overground on loan until all the 172s were delivered. Is this still happening ?

 

[MCR247]

Doubt it, a few have been delivered now..

 

[Drsatan]

There were suggestions that a class 165 might go to London Overground on loan until all the 172s were delivered. Is this still happening ?

Since 165s/166s are slightly wider to take advantage of more generous clearances on the GWML, they might be too wide for Gospel Oak - Barking.

 

[DjU]

I suppose one reason for the lack of "additional" stock is that the 67 haulage at FGW and Scotrail comes to an end, plus the three 180s from Northern go into a black hole.

Whilst I'm not normally in the "bring back all the good old locos" canp, its a shame that the capacity of the 67 hauled stock will be "lost" in a few months when we need to find a way to beef up capacity on a number of routes.

Even though Scotrail gain a load of freed up 158s after A-B opens they are still planning to keep a loco hauled diagram. This has just recently gone out to tender.

There have even been mumbling of FGW keeping 1 loco hauled diagram, even after the cascade.
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SWT still have the 158 it's being shared and yes it will get it 'fully' back. ATW always had the 5 150s...
As someone corrected me earlier 2 have already retuned home to ATW hence FGW getting the 158 and a 150 from LM. Ironically this 150 from LM could be one of the eventual 9 transferred to FGW

Ironically, It is one meant to be one of them, it'll go home to Tyseley before coming back to fGW
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There were suggestions that a class 165 might go to London Overground on loan until all the 172s were delivered. Is this still happening ?

This was a planned move to cope with the move from 3tph to 4tph in the peaks, prior to the introduction of the 172s, the plan got changed before anything happened. Instead of a Chiltern 165, LO got a LM 150 on loan (150132) this was for a period of about 3-4 weeks. About a week or so after 150232 got back to LM was when 150125 went of to FGW.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Since 165s/166s are slightly wider to take advantage of more generous clearances on the GWML, they might be too wide for Gospel Oak - Barking.

That is true, one was earmarked as a back up in case of an in service failure but it would have only been used as a last resort and would have required narrower stepboards to be fitted for use on that line.

I would agree that as the 172s are now coming on stream that the opportunity has passed.