Wigan playing at Wembley: no late enough train back for Wigan fans

[IrishDave]

Could they not put a few seating coaches on the back of the Caledonian sleepers?

The Caledonian Sleepers don't run on Saturday nights.

 

[MrPosh]

As I've said before, for anyone wanting to stay in London because it's going to be a struggle to get home, don't look at any of the hotels near Wembley! Take advantage of the 24 hour transport service and book a Premier Inn or Travelodge somewhere else in London - even if it's on the other side of town, where you'll be able to get some really cheap rates. I'd say Premier Inn - and have stayed in a few, and they're all fantastic (in my humble opinion). I've been lucky enough to stay in some rather posh hotels when other people are paying, but some of the best nights of sleep have been from a Premier Inn!

Once that's sorted, all you need to do is take a tube or night bus (and perhaps a cab the last bit) to get there and you can now enjoy a night out after the game - ideally having won (!) - and get a good night sleep before travelling back the next day, going against the flow, on what is likely to be a nice relaxed (and not overcrowded) train.

I can't think of anything worse than trying to squeeze on a train to get back home (especially if your team lost) and it just makes it more stressful if you feel you need to leave early, or you're in a rush and unable to make progress because of other people in your way.

The Travelodge at Southwark is perfect for this. Two minutes from the tube on the Jubilee which runs to Wembley.

There is a Premier Inn there, too, but it's a few extra minutes walk (but a bit nicer).

 

[SS4]

As I've said before, for anyone wanting to stay in London because it's going to be a struggle to get home, don't look at any of the hotels near Wembley! Take advantage of the 24 hour transport service and book a Premier Inn or Travelodge somewhere else in London - even if it's on the other side of town, where you'll be able to get some really cheap rates. I'd say Premier Inn - and have stayed in a few, and they're all fantastic (in my humble opinion). I've been lucky enough to stay in some rather posh hotels when other people are paying, but some of the best nights of sleep have been from a Premier Inn!

Once that's sorted, all you need to do is take a tube or night bus (and perhaps a cab the last bit) to get there and you can now enjoy a night out after the game - ideally having won (!) - and get a good night sleep before travelling back the next day, going against the flow, on what is likely to be a nice relaxed (and not overcrowded) train.

I can't think of anything worse than trying to squeeze on a train to get back home (especially if your team lost) and it just makes it more stressful if you feel you need to leave early, or you're in a rush and unable to make progress because of other people in your way.

Indeed, I usually go to the Uxbridge travelodge, helps when everyone else is going Eastbound . But since the Villa won't be going to Wembley for a long time this is purely hypothetical. It's nice to know you don't have to worry about getting back in time for a train either. London at night is a sight everyone should see IMO

 

[Mikey C]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22214781

The leader of Wigan Council has asked Sir Richard Branson help schedule later trains for Wigan Athletic fans returning from the FA Cup final.

An FA spokesman said "only a minimal amount of fans" used trains and that the kick-off time gave "more people an opportunity to see the game and proved very popular last season".

 

[Aldaniti]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22214781

The leader of Wigan Council, one Lord Smith, is useless at the best of times. I wouldn't let him direct traffic never mind a council - yet again he demonstrates that he doesn't understand the issues. No doubt he thinks a few soundbytes might buy him a few votes amongst Wigan fans. I'm the first to have a go at the railway when called for but in this case I don't believe it is at fault. If I recall, Virgin's 20.30 departure on a Saturday night is actually slightly later than the last service that BR ran so no blame on Virgin either. This is completely down to the football authorities and the fact that profit comes considerably above the interest of fans who they know will support their teams come what may.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at comparative costs, how does the return train fares to London from Wigan on rail services on the day of the final compare to any return fares by coach travel ?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22214781
Quote:
The leader of Wigan Council has asked Sir Richard Branson help schedule later trains for Wigan Athletic fans returning from the FA Cup final.

Quote:
An FA spokesman said "only a minimal amount of fans" used trains and that the kick-off time gave "more people an opportunity to see the game and proved very popular last season".

In order to give more people an opportunity to see the game the FA sold the rights to show FA cup ties to ESPN.


http://www.wembleystadium.com/TheStadium/GettingHere Wembley is a public transport destination and during peak traffic, public transport is the best option.

(I'm pretty sure that "just after the cup final" counts as peak traffic.)

 

[rebmcr]

(I'm pretty sure that "just after the cup final" counts as peak traffic.)

Nothing on the network ever comes close to a weekday rush hour.

 

[Bedpan]

In order to give more people an opportunity to see the game the FA sold the rights to show FA cup ties to ESPN.

I wonder if the fact that they are an American company has anything to with the reason for a late kick off. When I was in Vancouver I liked the novelty of lying in bed on a Saturday morning watching a live Premiership game - but it would be a pain to do it every week - the the difference between 7am and 9.15am will make a huge difference to the number of people watching on the West Coast whilst it will be a lunchtime game on the East Coast. As far as the European TV audience is concerned I can't think that punters would worry too much if its at 3pm or 5.15pm.

 

[richw]

As far as the European TV audience is concerned I can't think that punters would worry too much if its at 3pm or 5.15pm.

They'd prefer an 8pm kick off in Europe (9pm local time) Across Europe football is much more followed in later evenings

The FA arent bothered by the Trains, as they have a partnership with National Express coaches so want to encourage people to use the NatEx coaches

 

[Bevan Price]

Wonderful grammar.

To be fair on Virgin, engineering works are planned ages in advance, well before it is known who will be in the cup final. I do blame the FA for the ridiculous kick-off time. Those returning by car and coach will be knackered when they get back in the early hours, and those who choose the train will have to stay in London - they'll have a great, expensive night; especially if they win.

But - NR know the date for the cup final (and the Rugby League Cup Final) months in advance, and must realise there is a high probability that at least one team is likely to be from a place served by the WCML or ECML. Surely they can avoid planning engineering work on such dates ? After all, the railway supposedly exists to serve the customers, not the NR management.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Nothing on the network ever comes close to a weekday rush hour.

On a macro level, of course.

Speaking as somebody who worked on the trains to Wembley Stadium as recently as semi final weekend; the hour or so after the final whistle is definitely peak traffic in terms of numbers of people travelling.

 

[The Planner]

Surely they can avoid planning engineering work on such dates ? After all, the railway supposedly exists to serve the customers, not the NR management.

Engineering work is set out at least 18 months in advance, they will be trying to agree possession strategies for 2015 already. The resources required would already have been booked so why should NR bin their plans for a one off match? do they not serve their customers everyday of the week by planning work for quieter times such as the weekends? Why haven't Virgin or charter train operators been moaning at the supposed lack of cooperation from NR?

 

[Trainfan344]

Looking at comparative costs, how does the return train fares to London from Wigan on rail services on the day of the final compare to any return fares by coach travel ?

Have done some calculations below.

Rail:
Off-peak return from Wigan North Western to Wembley Central is £77.20,
Leaving Wigan North Western 09:09 and arriving at Wembley Central at 11:58,
leaving Wembley Central at 19:58 to get to Wigan North Western at 23:04.
Single from Wigan to Wembley Central leaving at 09:28 and arriving at 12:45 is £36.00 advance

Coach:

Return on National Express is £34.00
Leaving Wigan at 08:30 to Wembley arriving at 14:00
Leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan Arriving at 01:00
Single leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan arriving at 01:00 is £17.00


So to conclude, it's cheaper by coach, but it's also longer.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

A key factor is that you cant drink on the coach. Football fans like a drink or two when travelling.

 

[ivanhoe]

A key factor is that you cant drink on the coach. Football fans like a drink or two when travelling.

I would imagine that cup final trains would be designated dry. Happened to me last year for the semi .

 

[Aldaniti]

Have done some calculations below.

Rail:
Off-peak return from Wigan North Western to Wembley Central is £77.20,
Leaving Wigan North Western 09:09 and arriving at Wembley Central at 11:58,
leaving Wembley Central at 19:58 to get to Wigan North Western at 23:04.
Single from Wigan to Wembley Central leaving at 09:28 and arriving at 12:45 is £36.00 advance

Coach:

Return on National Express is £34.00
Leaving Wigan at 08:30 to Wembley arriving at 14:00
Leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan Arriving at 01:00
Single leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan arriving at 01:00 is £17.00


So to conclude, it's cheaper by coach, but it's also longer.

Book early enough though and you can drop on a Super Off Peak travel card from Wigan for £38.25 on a Saturday.

 

[BestWestern]

Well, from a Guard's perspective I can confidently say you won't find many railway staff shedding any tears for the footie fans, a trainload of drunks nobody's idea of a good day at the office, and sadly that is all too often the lasting memory despite all the fan who insist they do behave. Surely the simple solution is for the football clubs to charter their own transport, so every ticket comes with a seat on a coach, job done. It wont work for everybody of course, but the majority from the clubs' home towns would use it I'm sure. It then has the benefit of keeping most of the aggro in one place, sandwiched nicely between the escorting police, and normal decent people get to travel on weekend trains without the vile 'football experience' they so often have to endure.

Of course, sadly we are talking about the same morally rotten outfits who will pay spoiled brats millions but will go to court to avoid contributing to the essential police presence around their grounds, as they don't appear to think that it is their responsibility to clean up the mess they regularly cause. So the chances of them giving even the slightest damn about the problems their cashcow mobs cause on their merry travels are slim indeed so long as they've had the ticket money out of their pockets, but we can always hope.

I'm not a fan of football...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I would imagine that cup final trains would be designated dry. Happened to me last year for the semi .

I've still never seen a dry train actively enforced. I've worked the overwhelming majority of Wembley events since the stadium reopened in '07.

 

[Bevan Price]

Engineering work is set out at least 18 months in advance, they will be trying to agree possession strategies for 2015 already. The resources required would already have been booked so why should NR bin their plans for a one off match? do they not serve their customers everyday of the week by planning work for quieter times such as the weekends?

Unless there is something like a World Cup, the FA Cup final is normally on the 2nd Saturday in May. NR ought to know facts like that and act on them.
OK - the FA are also to blame for pandering to TV money, but it is the fans who are inconvenienced by two lots of inconsiderate managements.

 

[D1009]

Unless there is something like a World Cup, the FA Cup final is normally on the 2nd Saturday in May. NR ought to know facts like that and act on them.

Are you suggesting all engineering work is cancelled on the second Saturday in May in case someone from somewhere may need to get to Wembley?

 

[Sammy h]

Have done some calculations below.

Rail:
Off-peak return from Wigan North Western to Wembley Central is £77.20,
Leaving Wigan North Western 09:09 and arriving at Wembley Central at 11:58,
leaving Wembley Central at 19:58 to get to Wigan North Western at 23:04.
Single from Wigan to Wembley Central leaving at 09:28 and arriving at 12:45 is £36.00 advance

Coach:


Return on National Express is £34.00
Leaving Wigan at 08:30 to Wembley arriving at 14:00
Leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan Arriving at 01:00
Single leaving Wembley at 20:00 to Wigan arriving at 01:00 is £17.00


So to conclude, it's cheaper by coach, but it's also longer.

Or.... They could get a Saturday day travel card (subject to availability) for £38.25

 

[Aldaniti]

Well, from a Guard's perspective I can confidently say you won't find many railway staff shedding any tears for the footie fans, a trainload of drunks nobody's idea of a good day at the office, and sadly that is all too often the lasting memory despite all the fan who insist they do behave. Surely the simple solution is for the football clubs to charter their own transport, so every ticket comes with a seat on a coach, job done. It wont work for everybody of course, but the majority from the clubs' home towns would use it I'm sure. It then has the benefit of keeping most of the aggro in one place, sandwiched nicely between the escorting police, and normal decent people get to travel on weekend trains without the vile 'football experience' they so often have to endure.

Of course, sadly we are talking about the same morally rotten outfits who will pay spoiled brats millions but will go to court to avoid contributing to the essential police presence around their grounds, as they don't appear to think that it is their responsibility to clean up the mess they regularly cause. So the chances of them giving even the slightest damn about the problems their cashcow mobs cause on their merry travels are slim indeed so long as they've had the ticket money out of their pockets, but we can always hope.

I'm not a fan of football...

Spot on, we'll said.

 

[jb]

I'm not a fan of football...

I am very much a fan, yet I agree.

I spent a couple of decades following my team all over the country (and Europe) and always strove to ensure that links with fellow fans began and ended at the stadium gates. Official and/or unofficial travel with the herd was to be avoided unless impossible to do so.

 

[ivanhoe]

Well, from a Guard's perspective I can confidently say you won't find many railway staff shedding any tears for the footie fans, a trainload of drunks nobody's idea of a good day at the office, and sadly that is all too often the lasting memory despite all the fan who insist they do behave. Surely the simple solution is for the football clubs to charter their own transport, so every ticket comes with a seat on a coach, job done. It wont work for everybody of course, but the majority from the clubs' home towns would use it I'm sure. It then has the benefit of keeping most of the aggro in one place, sandwiched nicely between the escorting police, and normal decent people get to travel on weekend trains without the vile 'football experience' they so often have to endure.

Of course, sadly we are talking about the same morally rotten outfits who will pay spoiled brats millions but will go to court to avoid contributing to the essential police presence around their grounds, as they don't appear to think that it is their responsibility to clean up the mess they regularly cause. So the chances of them giving even the slightest damn about the problems their cashcow mobs cause on their merry travels are slim indeed so long as they've had the ticket money out of their pockets, but we can always hope.

I'm not a fan of football...

I would imagine your idea of a perfect day are empty trains.

 

[quarella]

Surely the simple solution is for the football clubs to charter their own transport, so every ticket comes with a seat on a coach

Coach in the rubber wheeled form or coach as in charter a train? I agree it is not pleasant for traincrew or other passengers but let us consider that the railway has a dedicated police force, staffed stations, multiple staff on most trains, a driver isolated in a cab until the passcom needs resetting.
Coach driver on his own in an open cab with their own and the operator's licence of their company at risk due to passenger behaviour.

 

[Essexman]

Well, from a Guard's perspective I can confidently say you won't find many railway staff shedding any tears for the footie fans, a trainload of drunks nobody's idea of a good day at the office, and sadly that is all too often the lasting memory despite all the fan who insist they do behave. Surely the simple solution is for the football clubs to charter their own transport, so every ticket comes with a seat on a coach, job done. It wont work for everybody of course, but the majority from the clubs' home towns would use it I'm sure. It then has the benefit of keeping most of the aggro in one place, sandwiched nicely between the escorting police, and normal decent people get to travel on weekend trains without the vile 'football experience' they so often have to endure.

Of course, sadly we are talking about the same morally rotten outfits who will pay spoiled brats millions but will go to court to avoid contributing to the essential police presence around their grounds, as they don't appear to think that it is their responsibility to clean up the mess they regularly cause. So the chances of them giving even the slightest damn about the problems their cashcow mobs cause on their merry travels are slim indeed so long as they've had the ticket money out of their pockets, but we can always hope.

I'm not a fan of football...

1970s & 1980s yes - not now.
Wigan hardly have a hooligan reputation. If special trains were put on those travelling from Wigan to Wembley would be mostly families.

As for clubs paying for police outside grounds - do pubs & clubs pay for the problems their alcohol causes? Do those running demonstrations pay for policing.

 

[northwichcat]

So to conclude, it's cheaper by coach, but it's also longer.

Also National Express will only sell you a ticket if a seat is available. An unlimited number of rail tickets are available but seating is not unlimited.

 

[The Planner]

NR ought to know facts like that and act on them.
OK - the FA are also to blame for pandering to TV money, but it is the fans who are inconvenienced by two lots of inconsiderate managements.

And they do, but you have already stated the real reason. If the FA Cup Final kicked off at 3pm like it always used to, would this debate be even occuring? I'd bet you would have extra trains laid on if it was....

 

[northwichcat]

do pubs & clubs pay for the problems their alcohol causes?

No but it's partly indirectly funded by customers who purchase alcohol. Alcoholic drinks have more tax applied than soft drinks and taxes pay for the Police.

Wigan football club are unhappy with the costs Greater Manchester Police charge them for as they are disproportionally high compared to the number of fans and amount of trouble Wigan attracts compared to other Greater Manchester clubs.