Yorkshire Hub

[quantinghome]

It looks like Leeds is going to get an integrated station:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...-colossal-revamp-to-accommodate-hs2-1-7597705

AMBITIOUS PLANS to create the biggest railway station in the North of England dubbed the Yorkshire Hub were unveiled today.

Previous proposals to build a new station south of the River Aire for high speed rail services arriving in Leeds were scrapped in favour of integrating the new lines into the existing station.

The move will involve building new platforms over the river and the transformation of the area south of the station in what will be one of the biggest urban regeneration projects in Europe....

Full announcement later today.

 

[bradders1983]

Ooh, people in Sheffield are going to be seething. "Waaah, waaah, we think we are just as important as Leeds, why cant our stations be combined?"

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ooh, people in Sheffield are going to be seething. "Waaah, waaah, we think we are just as important as Leeds, why cant our stations be combined?"

To which the reply should be "it's your own fault for building your city on a load of hills!"...

 

[bradders1983]

Indeed

I live here and people genuinely think that Sheffield is on a par with Leeds. it isnt.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

At least a plan that makes sense - having a station outside the centre of the city and away from the main connection hubs makes no sense.

Although what was the photographer up to in that Leeds station shot, got a backpacker foot fetish?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Indeed

I live here and people genuinely think that Sheffield is on a par with Leeds. it isnt.

I wasn't having a dig at Sheffield's size or comparative importance, just the fact that the topography of the city would make a central HS station very expensive even in the warped world of 21st century infrastructure projects. At least Sheffield has a modern mass-transit system in place unlike Leeds. In fact if Leeds had trams I could imagine there'd be pressure to save money by having the Leeds high-speed station on the outskirts too.

 

[MarkRedon]

It looks like Leeds is going to get an integrated station
Full announcement later today.

A raft of new planning documents have now been published and are available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...=all&from_date=29/11/2015&to_date=01/12/2015 []

On 30 November 2015, the government announced a proposed way forward on Phase Two of HS2.

Phase Two forms a ‘Y’ shape from the West Midlands up towards Manchester and the North West with proposed stations at Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly; and up towards Leeds and the North East with proposed stations in Leeds, the East Midlands and Sheffield Meadowhall.

It is anticipated that Phase Two of HS2 will begin operating trains around 2033 as part of the integrated HS2 network and with the rest of the UK rail network. The Government wants part of Phase Two – the route between the West Midlands and Crewe – to open in 2027, six years ahead of the rest of Phase Two, so that the North and Scotland will realise the benefits of HS2 to people and places sooner. This will be subject to its own hybrid Bill, which the Government hopes to deposit in parliament in 2017.

The Government has not made a decision on the exact route for the rest of Phase Two, this will most likely be announced in autumn 2016.

There is a lot to digest here which should keep us all occupied for some while to come. One point which immediately catches my eye is that the government is minded to accept the principle of an integrated station for Leeds – but has not committed itself.

On closer inspection, it seems that most of the new material is to be found in a single document, https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...t-and-west-the-next-steps-to-crewe-and-beyond.

From pages 84-5:

Last year Sir David Higgins set out the challenge of how to ensure Leeds station can,
over the coming years, cope with growth in passenger numbers on existing regional
and local rail services, and to ensure that the HS2 proposal works not only for the
city but also the wider region of West Yorkshire. He described further work to look
at options that could provide better integration of the HS2 station with the wider rail
network, and accommodate projected growth in passenger numbers on the existing
network as well as potential new east-west services for the Northern Powerhouse.
8.10
Today Sir David Higgins is publishing his report on Leeds Station. This sets out the
significant progress in this work and his recommendation on station location. It has
been developed with input from Network Rail. It has also involved Leeds City Council
and the West Yorkshire Combined Authority to ensure the proposed location not only
delivers for passengers, but also provides Leeds City and the wider West Yorkshire
region with regeneration and job growth opportunities.
8.11
Sir David recommends that a southern approach into Leeds remains the right
answer, but that the HS2 station can be built abutting the existing station to provide
passengers with an easy interchange. This choice would also minimise disruption to
passengers using existing services during construction while offering integration with
the existing local rail network and Northern Powerhouse services.
8.12
We are minded to agree with Sir David, subject to completing the further work and
decision-making needed. The final station location and design needs to stand the test of
time, be an affordable option, and be right for the people of Leeds and the wider region.

 

[Eeveevolve]

Only part way through one document, but im getting sick of 'Northern Powerhouse' being mentioned so much. More like Northern AA battery...

 

[HowardGWR]

Only part way through one document, but im getting sick of 'Northern Powerhouse' being mentioned so much. More like Northern AA battery...

What have Anti Aircraft battery gun sites to do with it? This hub business (see also Crewe) muddies the distinction made by mods between HS2 and other topics.

 

[quantinghome]

This hub business (see also Crewe) muddies the distinction made by mods between HS2 and other topics.

I deliberately started the topic in the infrastructure forum for this reason. Of course, the mods can put it in the place they feel most appropriate.

 

[Max]

The full report is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/480396/Higgins_-_The_Yorkshire_Hub.pdf

 

[eisenach]

At least Sheffield has a modern mass-transit system in place unlike Leeds. In fact if Leeds had trams I could imagine there'd be pressure to save money by having the Leeds high-speed station on the outskirts too.

Well, there's a thought.
Build HS2 on the outskirts and use the money saved to provide Leeds with a modern tramway network.
(I still (just - I was about 3 when they went) remember the old trams !).

 

[MarkRedon]

The document in which Sir David Higgins set out his thinking on the options for HS2 access to Leeds station can be found at:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/480396/Higgins_-_The_Yorkshire_Hub.pdf

In the document, Sir David puts forward three options and expresses a strong preference for Option Two. Sir David has succeeded in persuading Yorkshire council leaders and the Chamber of Commerce to support his preferred option. This puts the bulk of the high-speed platforms on decking above the River Aire and permits a single common concourse between the existing station and the HS2 platforms. Through trains heading north and east would be catered for by a new line diverging from the main HS2 route and looping into the existing station from the south-west.

The scheme which he puts forward today is in my view infinitely preferable to the earlier proposals for an isolated station at New Lane. However, the scheme inevitably prompts as many questions as it answers. There is no specific reference to any new trans-Pennine route ("HS3"), and in particular how services running on such a route would be accommodated. Under his proposal, Sir David believes that up to 22 platforms could be provided in or immediately adjoining the existing station, presumably including provision for HS3 trains. There is less detail in this document than there was in the preceding proposal by the Chamber of Commerce, which was quite clear that four tracking out to the east through Marsh Lane would be required.

 

[L+Y]

Not sure if this T-shape model is altogether a good idea, given it very firmly puts Leeds back onto the "branchline", as it were, rather than the flexibility of full integration with east/west platforms allowing through running to places other than due south. Or am I missing something?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

...... but im getting sick of 'Northern Powerhouse' being mentioned so much.

It may come as something of a shock to your sensibilities, but there are people who express the same sentiment about Crossrail.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If it happens I'll eat my hat.

 

[HowardGWR]

As I read the plan for Option 2 (bear in mind I am a stranger in Leeds) it will plough through the Direct Line building and Hilton Hotel? They look quite new on Street View. Also, the KPMG building on the other east side of Neville Road looks a goner.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Going back to the Yorkshire Post article in the OP, I was led to this: http://m.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/politics/analysis-does-leeds-hs2-station-announcement-give-sheffield-campaigners-hope-1-7598429
Which shows, in the artists impression of the planned Meadowhall station, a curve which appears to link the Barnsley/Huddersfield lines to the Rotherham/Doncaster lines, or is that a planned extension of the tramway?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only part way through one document, but im getting sick of 'Northern Powerhouse' being mentioned so much. More like Northern AA battery...

With all this Northern Powerhouse rubbish, Osborne's mouth is writing cheques that his political will can't (or won't) cash, I fear...

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Going back to the Yorkshire Post article in the OP, I was led to this: http://m.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/politics/analysis-does-leeds-hs2-station-announcement-give-sheffield-campaigners-hope-1-7598429
Which shows, in the artists impression of the planned Meadowhall station, a curve which appears to link the Barnsley/Huddersfield lines to the Rotherham/Doncaster lines, or is that a planned extension of the tramway?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


With all this Northern Powerhouse rubbish, Osborne's mouth is writing cheques that his political will can't (or won't) cash, I fear...

Although it looks to connect with the tramway, the Barnsley Line in that picture has no electrification pylons so it's still diesel and not a tramway. I've heard a plan to have HS2 at Sheffield Victoria, yes it'll a bit slower, but time savings to Birmingham are the biggest benefit and won't be hit by much.

 

[bradders1983]

Although it looks to connect with the tramway, the Barnsley Line in that picture has no electrification pylons so it's still diesel and not a tramway. I've heard a plan to have HS2 at Sheffield Victoria, yes it'll a bit slower, but time savings to Birmingham are the biggest benefit and won't be hit by much.

Its a pie in the sky plan proposed by Sheffield Council, who are totally ignoring the cost implications. Would need something like a three mile long tunnel under Sheffield to be considered.

 

[MarkRedon]

If it happens I'll eat my hat.

You've got plenty of time to prepare, cook and eat it... Should be complete about 2033!

 

[HowardGWR]

Its a pie in the sky plan proposed by Sheffield Council, who are totally ignoring the cost implications. Would need something like a three mile long tunnel under Sheffield to be considered.

Surely in itself no big deal nowadays - they just extended the long HS2 Chilterns one and that just to protect a few views. Also see the latest report on a road / rail tunnel under the Pennines to Sheffield from Manchester.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Finally sense has been seen with regards to Leeds and ensuring connectivity.

Sheffield needs to be at meadowhall not the city centre which would be horrendously expensive and not provide the same level of regional benefits.

 

[yorksrob]

The artists impression in the paper shows our new (soon to be opened) South entrance to the station. How do they propose to put new platforms over the river without demolishing it ?

 

[HowardGWR]

The artists impression in the paper shows our new (soon to be opened) South entrance to the station. How do they propose to put new platforms over the river without demolishing it ?

See my 1450 post. Does that help?

 

[yorksrob]

See my 1450 post. Does that help?

I fear not. If the new lines are to plough through the Hilton, they'll also be going through the new entrance.

 

[Chris125]

Not sure if this T-shape model is altogether a good idea, given it very firmly puts Leeds back onto the "branchline", as it were, rather than the flexibility of full integration with east/west platforms allowing through running to places other than due south. Or am I missing something?

The pros and cons of this are addressed in the interim report as Option 1.

 

[Haydn1971]

Which shows, in the artists impression of the planned Meadowhall station, a curve which appears to link the Barnsley/Huddersfield lines to the Rotherham/Doncaster lines, or is that a planned extension of the tramway?

Definitely a chord for the Barnsley line - it's one of the SCRIF plans - ideally the chord will give a direct Barnsley-Rotherham connection, but ultimately there's a long way to go yet

 

[billio]

... Through trains heading north and east would be catered for by a new line diverging from the main HS2 route and looping into the existing station from the south-west. ...

I would be right annoyed if I came from Bradford, the UKs 7th largest city and the one place in Yorkshire that needs some infrastructure development.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Is there anything today which cannot be described as a "hub" ? Years ago everything had to be "robust" then it was "sustainable".
These cliched buzzwords never end.